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The World Has No More Room For Monsters: Swamp Thing General Discussion

Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
1man3letters said:
no, not distance, height, as in how high the superman does his lasers from ground
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Yeah if he were to do it at a height right off the ground that a superman would never throw an air laser then you won't get full combo just the clone hit.

Not too worried about that.
 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
Yeah swamp thing was a whole thing in the 80's and early 90s. 2 tv shows (live action and cartoon) and two movies. I never even knew he was related to dc comics til like the 2000's.

He even had his own ripoff series that got popular, the toxic avenger.

 
Evil Canadian

Evil Canadian

G O K U
Elder God
The more I play with Swamp thing his biggest problem is he's just too damn honest. There's no real grease. Like at best you could force a 50/50 for a few points of damage midscreen, and the one option is incredibly punishable on block.

You wanna setup trait in corner, ok give up a lot of guaranteed damage that you just left on the table for the setup.

That in mind honest isn't bad, but his honestly isn't even remotely comparable to Aquaman and Superman. They got no hard gimmicks but they got the great tools to make it work, swampy while nothing is "bad" on paper hes got nothing overwhelmingly strong like them.
 
Harkonis

Harkonis

Noob
Boss Savage said:
I thought of a few things I'd like to see added/changed to help swamp thing. I'd love to get everyone's opinion on whether or not this if this is asking for too much.

-Trait is now special cancelable.

-DB1 in trait now spreads Abigail's Garden along with it. (If this seems like to much. Making it cost 1 bar of meter to do so could possibly help balance it.)

-DB3 meterburned now on hit holds the opponent in place to continue combo.

-D1 is now 7 frames.

Again, these are just a few things I thought of that could be interesting improvements to swamp thing. These buffs don't seem broken to me tbh. But I'd love to here everyone's opinion even if you disagree.
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I don't really know it would be broken if trait just stayed out on hit. If that would be too much, give trait a dual role by bringing in the gear ability that lets it also heal you.
 
Rooks

Rooks

Cold Azz Mulatto
1man3letters said:
d1 already 7 frames man :)

d
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Boss Savage said:
Wow, I honestly thought his D1 was 8 frames. Weird.
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To my knowledge it is in a way 8 frames, since IJ2 does not count the 1st active frame as part of startup like most other fighter. If you come from SF it would make sense to call it 8f. This may be hearsay, or i might be wrong/misremembering, but pretty sure I saw this on the UltraChen Injustice for Beginners vids.

Edit: not that i'm recommending using anything but the NRS info as mixing would get real confusing. Just for clarification purposes.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
So please aware me on how to best play Swampy? I played him for a bit like a space control type character, and I really enjoyed it, I've never played a space control character like this before.
 
Harkonis

Harkonis

Noob
I've found he's all about explosive stuff from that mid-screen range. Too close and everything they have beats you, too far and everything they have beats you. Right in the middle and you have a lot of options that can tag them fast and hard. First character I've played that when you get someone down on the ground you don't either back way off or rush them down. Just keep your range and work it again.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
And what do I do about characters like CW, Wonder bitch and Aquaman who can abuse long range disjointed jumpins? S1 doesn't seem to work very well against them.
 
ShadyHeart

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
Am I missing something or is crouch the answer to literally everything this character does? Sure you have a 50/50 in F233 by using log instead of one of the 3's and same deal with B2323 but that's high risk low reward and nobody is gonna get hit by that F3 if they are watching for it. Due to him having no good overhead, his grappling game is rather sad since you can't grab someone crouching.
 
R1sefromyourgrave

R1sefromyourgrave

Noob
I actually think swamp thing has a lot of good stuff going for him, strings that are plus on block that are mids. Great mid range pokes. Decent enough damage. Command grabs. Best sweep in the game?Good anti air. Sure he has bad stuff going on as well but the more I play other characters the more I like swamp thing.
 
Trauma_and_Pain

Trauma_and_Pain

Filthy Casual
Basically there are two main problems as I see it.

1) - he should be totally dominant when he gets in for being so incompetent at zoning and dealing with the powerful zoning in this game. Bane and Grodd both have great get-in options and tons of dirt. Swampy is not even exceptional in close. The only zone he somewhat excels at is the sort of mid-range neutral. He has to sacrifice a lot of damage for some decent plus frames in any case, and I just wonder why he has to make that tradeoff when he has to fight so hard just to stop being zoned.

2) - his trait is very clunky and hardly ever worth using away from the corner. So many things disable it. Being hit disables it. Jumping or dashing disables it. Even backdashing disables it. Accidental double tapping or plinking the trait button disables it. Blocking disables the first stage of it. It's kind of ridiculous for something with 45 Recovery frames considering the character is never even that plus to begin with.

I know it's still early, but I don't think it's controversial to say he's bottom 5. The strange thing is he has all these long-range "threats" which are seemingly intended as anti-zoning tools, yet they're sort of garbage. The vine stuff and DB3 can simply be crouched and are punishable by lots of things. Log is slow and doesn't even travel fullscreen. He's never really good. He gets to be decent sometimes and then he's bad the rest of the time.
 
masuhdunkillyall

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
Trauma_and_Pain said:
Basically there are two main problems as I see it.

1) - he should be totally dominant when he gets in for being so incompetent at zoning and dealing with the powerful zoning in this game. Bane and Grodd both have great get-in options and tons of dirt. Swampy is not even exceptional in close. The only zone he somewhat excels at is the sort of mid-range neutral. He has to sacrifice a lot of damage for some decent plus frames in any case, and I just wonder why he has to make that tradeoff when he has to fight so hard just to stop being zoned.

2) - his trait is very clunky and hardly ever worth using away from the corner. So many things disable it. Being hit disables it. Jumping or dashing disables it. Even backdashing disables it. Accidental double tapping or plinking the trait button disables it. Blocking disables the first stage of it. It's kind of ridiculous for something with 45 Recovery frames considering the character is never even that plus to begin with.

I know it's still early, but I don't think it's controversial to say he's bottom 5. The strange thing is he has all these long-range "threats" which are seemingly intended as anti-zoning tools, yet they're sort of garbage. The vine stuff and DB3 can simply be crouched and are punishable by lots of things. Log is slow and doesn't even travel fullscreen. He's never really good. He gets to be decent sometimes and then he's bad the rest of the time.
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I don't doubt that he is bottom 5. He's close to being good, he has a variety of tools to deal with many situations, I just think they were scared of making him overly oppressive.

They could do any of these things: make his bigger dmg meterless combos not impossible to do, shave some recovery frames off of moves here or there, speed a move or two up over there, make b223 not uninterruptible, change highs to mids (db3?) maybe create a tick grab off a string (b22xdf2 anybody?), make trait useful in some form....any of these would be welcome and go a very long way into making him more viable.
 
K

KingJerm731

Psn: kingjermx
thlityoursloat said:

I don't know what to say, this MU looks so badly lopsided, which is really interesting to say the least.
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The matchup is 10-0 when her trait is out, haha. It's manageable when it's not. He also didn't confirm a single f23 into a full combo so he's leaving a shit ton of damage on the table.

Edit: by manageable I mean 6-4 in Ivy's favor.
 
Percimon

Percimon

Sky above, Voice within
1) bf3 can low profile mid-projectiles (dunno if it's useful in real fight cuz:
"+": it low profiles on start up, so you can see opponent's animation first, then do bf3 when projectile is near you;
"-": it's very risky)

2) Might be help in corner game, especially when trait is active:


Btw, why does db1 or 3 or d3 break ex-b3 or ex-f3 armor, but it doesn't break Bane's charge (with venom buff)? :(
 
dark55

dark55

Noob
i don't think swamp thing will be my main or in the top 5 characters i play. Im loving his tick throw setups. B22 is a really good block string into vine grab, and his 1,1 into vine grab is legit, and his d3 into vine grab is also good. Im digging his d2, d1, and 2,1 into green thumb. But his optimal damage combos seems hella frame tight and hard. I can do them but not consistently. I hope he gets a buff to his recovery a tad bit to make it a bit easier to land some of his stuff.
 
Boss Savage

Boss Savage

Mortal
dark55 said:
i don't think swamp thing will be my main or in the top 5 characters i play. Im loving his tick throw setups. B22 is a really good block string into vine grab, and his 1,1 into vine grab is legit, and his d3 into vine grab is also good. Im digging his d2, d1, and 2,1 into green thumb. But his optimal damage combos seems hella frame tight and hard. I can do them but not consistently. I hope he gets a buff to his recovery a tad bit to make it a bit easier to land some of his stuff.
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Even though vine tick-throws sound good on paper, they're awful. Reason one; if the opponent is too close during the tick-string, close vine grab whiffs. Reason two, the most obvious flaw; vine grab can be ducked. So since all the vine grab tick-strings start or end with either Highs, mids, or lows, the opponent can just keep ducking with no fear. Completely avoiding the vine grab safely. There is no guessing game. Just duck, and you win.

I really hope this character gets some love soon. Because as it stands now there's no reason to use swamp thing unless you're having fun or just really love the character.
 
masuhdunkillyall

masuhdunkillyall

Aht Aht Aht!
Shave a few startup frames off Bio-Fission and make it a mid and swamp thing becomes a scary character. Probably why they didn't make it a mid already...but I'd love it if they did this in the future
 
dark55

dark55

Noob
Boss Savage said:
Even though vine tick-throws sound good on paper, they're awful. Reason one; if the opponent is too close during the tick-string, close vine grab whiffs. Reason two, the most obvious flaw; vine grab can be ducked. So since all the vine grab tick-strings start or end with either Highs, mids, or lows, the opponent can just keep ducking with no fear. Completely avoiding the vine grab safely. There is no guessing game. Just duck, and you win.

I really hope this character gets some love soon. Because as it stands now there's no reason to use swamp thing unless you're having fun or just really love the character.
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yeah true. But right now as it stands you will still win a lot of matches with his tickk throws bc there are a lot more noobish people who play the game than good people that would actually know/read the tick throw and know what to do against it. i agree though swamp thing needs lovin for sho. The real question is...will paulo give it to him? bc he likes to buff characters....but also nerf shit about the character as well. ( dumb) so its like okay swamp thin gets a buff....but whats going to get nerfed?
 
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