The New Top Tiers [POST EVO-PATCH]

[SwiftEagle]

I would appreciate it if somebody could explain to me how to break out of Liu Kang's F4 string after his last attack (U3). The characters I use don't have teleports so how do I counter it if a Liu Kang player keeps spamming it? I can't poke out of it at all. Are you supposed to just block and wait until he starts throwing fireballs? I can't jump out of it either.

 

[lionheart21]

You should have posted that picture in the Shang Tsung forum on the day of the patch to troll us Shang Tsung players. I am sure someone would have taken the bait. LOL.

To remain on topic, as I continue playing the game post patch, watching streams, reading prominent players' comments and opinions on social media, my money is on Geras, Jacqui, Jax, Liu Kang, Sonya, and possibly Kabal being the new top tier characters.

I'm a little on the fence about Jacqui right now being in S-tier ( i could see her being the gatekeeper for S-tier alongside Cassie), but the rest seem about right to me. Kabal to me has been S-tier since the start, and Jax got moved up there after the patch.

 

[MrArcher15]

D

She doesn’t have the fast mids that he does, but Cetrion’s s1 is also +3 on block.

yes but is it a high? Cuz 12 ends in a mid that’s what makes it terrifying

 

[ZeroSymbolic]

Geras

 

[Eldagrin]

D

yes but is it a high? Cuz 12 ends in a mid that’s what makes it terrifying

It is but her 11 is also a mid and she’s usually throwing/doing f23 or 11 after kind of similar to Liu. Her shimmy game is also very strong

 

[wsj515]

View attachment 15627

That's how I see it, and they're in order.

Kung Lao is way too low. There's also no point in making a tier list where 17/26 characters are S/A+... the letters mean nothing and only infer a relative power level.

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

Right now the chinese twin brothers at the top.
Even Scar complain about that broke s** Liu Kang easy as f** character.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162432676864909313

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1162211067730128902

And i was saying that for so so long. That character have it all. High damage, crazy good KB, crazy good FB, who has the best scaling and can combo for 550+ dmg, and it`s simply unpunishable. Best zoning for mixed character. Low, high, air fireballs, low and high at the same time, crazy fast recoverying on his fireball as well.
He is the top of the top.

I think a good way to fix Liu is remove low fireball from LHQ.
Just don't add the command grab in its place lolllllll

 

[Professor Oak]

D

yes but is it a high? Cuz 12 ends in a mid that’s what makes it terrifying

No it doesn’t? Right?

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

No it doesn’t? Right?

S12 is high high it just jails very easily

 

[Vslayer]

Kung Lao is way too low. There's also no point in making a tier list where 17/26 characters are S/A+... the letters mean nothing and only infer a relative power level.

KL isn’t that great.

Oh tier lists mean nothing? Who would have thought. LOL

 

[Zer0_h0ur]

KL isn’t that great.

Oh tier lists mean nothing? Who would have thought. LOL

I know you're prob Ps4 but there are relatively high ##s of KLs on God and elder God rank On XB1.
I sort the top ranks by character every once a while

I'm a side note, not one Noob main elder God on XBL, but a decent amount on God

 

[wsj515]

KL isn’t that great.

Oh tier lists mean nothing? Who would have thought. LOL

You misunderstand. Tier lists make sense, but don't make sense when you put over 50% of the cast in the top two tiers, namely S and A+. The letters aren't units of measurement or anything, they are relative based on the cast. A tier list by definition should not have half the cast in the top two tiers, its a cop out to not delineate that many characters into different tiers.

As for Kung Lao, he's certainly better than Jax, Frost, Raiden, and Kollector, maybe Jade too. He has a better MU spread than Johnny. He is most definitely not bottom 5, that is crazy.

 

[Vslayer]

You misunderstand. Tier lists make sense, but don't make sense when you put over 50% of the cast in the top two tiers, namely S and A+. The letters aren't units of measurement or anything, they are relative based on the cast. A tier list by definition should not have half the cast in the top two tiers, its a cop out to not delineate that many characters into different tiers.

As for Kung Lao, he's certainly better than Jax, Frost, Raiden, and Kollector, maybe Jade too. He has a better MU spread than Johnny. He is most definitely not bottom 5, that is crazy.

Since the buffs I feel like most of the cast is that viable. Low tiers still feel low but not as much.

I agree he may be better than some of these but he’s not better than Jax or Jade

 

[Vslayer]

I know you're prob Ps4 but there are relatively high ##s of KLs on God and elder God rank On XB1.
I sort the top ranks by character every once a while

I'm a side note, not one Noob main elder God on XBL, but a decent amount on God

That’s cause people don’t anti air him and let him teleport like a maniac.

 

[wsj515]

Since the buffs I feel like most of the cast is that viable. Low tiers still feel low but not as much.

I agree he may be better than some of these but he’s not better than Jax or Jade

He is definitely better than Jax. Not only as a character overall, but he has significantly better MUs. Again, to say that he is bottom 5 is just crazy.

Also, no half decent Lao is going to be teleporting like a maniac, if ever.

 

[HoangS-Z]

Nope, just some of them, good Lao players use the teleport sparingly and on the hard read mostly. Lao's game based on the pressure between the grab and the mids. He has very good mids in this game and big dmg combo that ends the round very soon

 

[HoangS-Z]

My Lao got to God rank also

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Yeah, I feel like D'vorah is way better than KL and Kitana. But I still think Cass is S.

Here Is my hot take so far:


I could have separated them throughout the tiers more but I feel they are all very close aside from a few. I think every character is more than viable now although characters still need hitbox fixes and KB's redone and maybe damage adjusted but for the most part I think you can be successful with any character after patch.

Nightwolf has clear weaknesses but is very strong at what he does and Matoka Warrior is in A Tier while I think Ancestrial Gift is high B Tier. Many characters second variations got buffs in some shape or form and that helps them with certain MU's. Even if the buffs weren't what we wanted for that character they still got help. For example Kotal had several fundamental issues that made him unviable and only a few if them where addressed. But he got +10% health, jailing from pokes(especially D3 yay) and a few hitbox adjustments that kinda helped but overall improved close up allowing him to have more tools for every situation. Kotal also got many buffs to totemic making him a counter zoning pick in several matchups.
Cassie: I honestly feel she is not top 5 anymore and dropped to A tier which is still good just more predictable/punishable. (Sonicfox is dropping her and possibly picking up: Jax, Noob or Nightwolf)

My opinion on the tiers will definitely change after the next few majors and I'm thinking D'Vorah, Kollector, Frost, Kano could even be higher tier than where I placed them.

 

[lordlosh]

The big rant against Liu Kang in twitter by top players continues.
Tweets from twitter which i agree strongly:

Sonya walked so Liu could run mk11 after the patches. Great zoning, great anti-zoning, safe stagger pressure, no push back on his strings, jailing strings, good FB, amazing KBs, good dmg lol wtf

SEVEN (7!!!!) PRACTICAL KBs, +30% bnbs, unscaled fatal, 9f mid launcher, ya, he outplays TF out of everyone

And this is from Magician(Pro player for people who dont know)
[QUOTE]Why the fk is Liu a f*ing character. Everytime im playing KL, a Liu just comes to mess it up. Liu is broken especially with how much damage he does and when you get close to killing him you are the one who dies. Seriously either nerf him as much as Erron or just remove him.[/QUOTE]
He has the most imba KB+FB things arround. He can combo on either of them for some insane damage. Its fu* ridiculous people to get punished for killing your opponent life. Its a free win for him if he goes below 30% and you are in the range of 500, its just a free kill for him.

And a lot of people start questioning what NRS is doing exactly? How is that proper balancing? They are just changing the guard at the top. How is this balance if you just change Sonya with Liu Kang And Cassie with Kung Lao for example ?

Liu Kang right now have it absolutely all. Something which even Sonya not poses pre patch.

Can someone pls explain me how you post this ridiculous Tier List with Sonya and Erron Black at top character and Liu Kang way below them, and Kung Lao so low?

 

[lordlosh]

The big rant against Liu Kang in twitter by top players continues.
Tweets from twitter which i agree strongly:

Sonya walked so Liu could run mk11 after the patches. Great zoning, great anti-zoning, safe stagger pressure, no push back on his strings, jailing strings, good FB, amazing KBs, good dmg lol wtf

SEVEN (7!!!!) PRACTICAL KBs, +30% bnbs, unscaled fatal, 9f mid launcher, ya, he outplays TF out of everyone

And this is from Magician(Pro player for people who dont know)

Why the fk is Liu a f*ing character. Everytime im playing KL, a Liu just comes to mess it up. Liu is broken especially with how much damage he does and when you get close to killing him you are the one who dies. Seriously either nerf him as much as Erron or just remove him.

He has the most imba KB+FB things arround. He can combo on either of them for some insane damage. It]s fu* ridiculous people to get punished for killing your opponent life. Its a free win for him if he goes below 30% and you are in the range of 500, its just a free kill for him.

And a lot of people start questioning what NRS is doing exactly? How is that proper balancing? They are just changing the guard at the top. How is this balance if you just change Sonya with Liu Kang And Cassie with Kung Lao for example ?

Liu Kang right now have it absolutely all. Something which even Sonya not poses pre patch.

Can someone pls explain me how you post this ridiculous Tier List with Sonya and Erron Black at top character and Liu Kang way below them, and Kung Lao so low?

 

[Hellbringer]

The big rant against Liu Kang in twitter by top players continues.
Tweets from twitter which i agree strongly:




And this is from Magician(Pro player for people who dont know)
[QUOTE]Why the fk is Liu a f*ing character. Everytime im playing KL, a Liu just comes to mess it up. Liu is broken especially with how much damage he does and when you get close to killing him you are the one who dies. Seriously either nerf him as much as Erron or just remove him.[/QUOTE]
He has the most imba KB+FB things arround. He can combo on either of them for some insane damage. Its fu* ridiculous people to get punished for killing your opponent life. Its a free win for him if he goes below 30% and you are in the range of 500, its just a free kill for him.

And a lot of people start questioning what NRS is doing exactly? How is that proper balancing? They are just changing the guard at the top. How is this balance if you just change Sonya with Liu Kang And Cassie with Kung Lao for example ?

Liu Kang right now have it absolutely all. Something which even Sonya not poses pre patch.

Can someone pls explain me how you post this ridiculous Tier List with Sonya and Erron Black at top character and Liu Kang way below them, and Kung Lao so low?

Don't you have your own opinion? Looks like u always bandwagon and ride on tweets from pro players.

 

[lordlosh]

Can you read a whole post and conversation, and not just choose one sentence to answer to ?
I already said many times what my problem is with Liu Kang, will do one more time specially for you:
Why i think he is number 1 ?
Best zoning and anti-zoning in the game for mixed character. And he have the easiest time against pure zoners.
Low, high, air fireball, and he can amplify them. He can throw at the same time low and high fireball. They have pretty fast recovering and its hard to counter. He beat with easy both Cassie and Sonya. And what really makes him so powerful in exact that department is his Flying Dragon Kick, which carry KB, its full screen, its high damage, can be amplify, have good recovery and its a f* 14f fast.

Pressure department - best ING.
He is the best pressure character hands down. He is probably the best turn stealer ING.

And what is really my problem with that character is his insanely useful KB, that he can combo on them. Same with his FB.
Just like Magician said, you outplay him, bring his life low and it`s game over for you.
He can FB early on his combo or really late on his combo for tremendous amount of damage, because his FB has the best unscaled FB.

His string are safe, has good range and are pretty fast as well.
More and more people start utilize his Dragon Parry and he is turning into all in one character.

And i maybe not the best player arround, but i watch tremendous amount of Pro reps, and understand the game perfectly.
And for thousand time, the game is and should be balance at highest level possible, so pro videos, comments, etc. is important if they have solid arguments for it. Not just complain for the sake of it, like some of the posters here.
Thats why i always try to argumentation my posts.

 

[Viperking7]

View attachment 15628

This is what I'm thinking currently. Tempted to put Dvorah higher, but I'm unsure.

I definetly agree with this the most, no way Scorpion is better than Liu Kang, Erron Black and Jacqui let alone Sub Zero lol. Jax has definetly gone up, but he still has horrible matchups like Kabal and Cetrion so theres no way he can be top 5. The top tiers barely got nerf other than erron so I dont get all the Cassie is not top 5 unless the glow kick nerf really hurts or are people just following what sonicfox said? Only things im questioning are how is Cetrion atm and whether Dvorah should go higher.

 

[Elias6999]

People are overrating Jacqui a lot. In what world is she top tier with others who have great projectiles, she doesn’t have one and is a non-presence fullscreen. Yeah she’s amazing, but many characters could be considered bad matchups for her, she ain’t top tier. Very high though.

 

[NothingPersonal]

Reo's new tier list. Apparently Jade is low tier bc tym sezso Jade mains rejoice.

Tbh I think it's a troll vid.