The New Top Tiers [POST EVO-PATCH]

[Snoop88]

I asked a simply question. Who was the guy, who was beating top players at that time with Kitana? Who were the guys that was playing Kitana at top level at that time?
Evo 2015 was after ESL PRO Series finale, when SonicFox first use Kitana at Pro tournament and won 60k.
He also use and won multiple title with Erron Black, and no one ever dare to touch that character.
He also do that with Cassie and i dont remember anyone won anything with her, except for SonicFox.
This is the guy that shows people how certain characters needs to be played and he make them viable.

The thing with Kitana and how she recieved buff sounds like one BIG excuse and downplay to SonicFox.
This just shows how much he understand the game and he when to pick certain character.
Roster is open to anyone out there. If you lose its because the opponent was better, not because of "Tier list".

And i not follow Injustice 2 closely, but this is a big downplay, by saying that SonicFox pick Captain Cold. And what about the biggest tournament he won with the Joker? Both Joker and Captain Cold was and always was at the lower zone in people tier lists.

And there to show that "last patch" where Kitana recieved 15 buffs.

Ehh... Kitana got buffed before ESL Pro Series Finale.

SonicFox is a tremendous player. I give him of course credit for that. Yes, he shows how some characters should be played.

But...as I said earlier... his playstyle relies very much on match-ups. In tournaments he uses multiple characters, not just one. He will pick character which suits the mu better.

That's a fact with CC in I2. Before the release he said in an interview that he's going to main him or at least check him. However after the release it quickly become obvious that he is trash. So he was playing different chars. He came back to CC after a patch when he become viable. He wasn't that trash always especially against certain characters.

Erron was broken at the beginning of MKX. Then he got nerfed and Sonic switched to different chars like Kitana, Cassie or Predator Hunter(oh boi he was so broken at release). He didn't used Erron until he got some buffs and again became more viable.

That's not downplaying.

 

[M2Dave]

It has gotten to a point in the NRS community where we basically can't question sonic's judgement on this type of thing.

We ought to question every high player's judgement, even Sonic Fox's. Tournament players have agendas. But the point is he is right about Cassie. EX glow kick caused every string to be safe on block. Now EX glow kick can be flawless blocked and punished, which means you sometimes have to end strings with regular glow kick and also risk getting punished. This mind game is one that Cassie players do not want to engage in but will have to.

 

[Orochi]

Nightwolf.

 

[lordlosh]

Ehh... Kitana got buffed before ESL Pro Series Finale.

SonicFox is a tremendous player. I give him of course credit for that. Yes, he shows how some characters should be played.

But...as I said earlier... his playstyle relies very much on match-ups. In tournaments he uses multiple characters, not just one. He will pick character which suits the mu better.

That's a fact with CC in I2. Before the release he said in an interview that he's going to main him or at least check him. However after the release it quickly become obvious that he is trash. So he was playing different chars. He came back to CC after a patch when he become viable. He wasn't that trash always especially against certain characters.

Erron was broken at the beginning of MKX. Then he got nerfed and Sonic switched to different chars like Kitana, Cassie or Predator Hunter(oh boi he was so broken at release). He didn't used Erron until he got some buffs and again became more viable.

That's not downplaying.

Nqh thats a pretty big downplaying. Once again can you post the patch notes so we can all see the exact date and the 15 buffs Kitana recieved? Once again who were the other players that used Kitana or Erron Black or think they was viable?
So its what i said it is. SonicFox picks a character and start annihilate the scene and suddenly that character is broken or recieved huge buff.
Just look how many excuses you give.
Go watch the ESL again both in MK and in IJ and see what commentators said about this. How SonicFox use characters that no one pick and they think its weak and suddenly he dominate the scene.
But yeah of course by default they are buffed before he pick them.
CC in Injustice pre/post was always a trash. Same as Joker, but as i said you cant anything for him.
SonicFox also plays and wins as a Triborg in MK10, character no one use as well.
The only character that was really pain in the ass OP, was Alien, and SonicFox counter pick him. But he also played against Alien and won that matches.

Still waiting for the names that was playing Kitana and won something with her, same for Erron Black, patch notes date and the 15 buffs Kitana recieved durring this before the ESL.

 

[Hellbringer]

Nqh thats a pretty big downplaying. Once again can you post the patch notes so we can all see the exact date and the 15 buffs Kitana recieved? Once again who were the other players that used Kitana or Erron Black or think they was viable?
So its what i said it is. SonicFox picks a character and start annihilate the scene and suddenly that character is broken or recieved huge buff.
Just look how many excuses you give.
Go watch the ESL again both in MK and in IJ and see what commentators said about this. How SonicFox use characters that no one pick and they think its weak and suddenly he dominate the scene.
But yeah of course by default they are buffed before he pick them.
CC in Injustice pre/post was always a trash. Same as Joker, but as i said you cant anything for him.
SonicFox also plays and wins as a Triborg in MK10, character no one use as well.
The only character that was really pain in the ass OP, was Alien, and SonicFox counter pick him. But he also played against Alien and won that matches.

Still waiting for the names that was playing Kitana and won something with her, same for Erron Black, patch notes date and the 15 buffs Kitana recieved durring this before the ESL.

So whats your point? Cause i have a hard time figuring that out.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Secret Top Tier: Dirtbag Kano

Lab him a bit last night and could definitely say he is now in my "fun to use" list.

 

[Snoop88]

So its what i said it is. SonicFox picks a character and start annihilate the scene and suddenly that character is broken or recieved huge buff.
Just look how many excuses you give.

I give many excuses? I'm just trying to tell you that his playstyle relies on match-ups. That's nothing bad but it ruins your image of SonicFox beating everyone with no matter what character. It's not that gold and shiny. Even trash tiers can have good match-ups. Sonic knows it and uses that.

Go watch the ESL again both in MK and in IJ and see what commentators said about this. How SonicFox use characters that no one pick and they think its weak and suddenly he dominate the scene.

Oh... commentators. Please note that their job is to talk and get people excited. Again, SF picks character which against a specific opponent has a good match up.

CC in Injustice pre/post was always a trash. Same as Joker, but as i said you cant anything for him.

It's funny how you didn't follow I2 scene but knows that CC was always trash...

SonicFox also plays and wins as a Triborg in MK10, character no one use as well.

Sektor was top tier at the end of MKX. SF knew how to use it better than others, you're right. But that also confirms the fact that he is picking favourable match-ups.

https://testyourmight.com/threads/mortal-kombat-x-patch-notes-6-23-15.53624/

Above you have patch notes with Kitana buffs. Next time at least try to look for them on your own. It's not that hard boi.

 

[heildan]

I've been living under a rock for some days. Can someone tell me why is D'vorah being considered top tier now?

 

[Juanlsa192]

there was no change in the tier list, its the same imo

 

[xKMMx]

More flawed logic on TYM.

I'm playing against a character a lot online = Got buffed to top tier status.

 

[ChoseDeath]

The fact that the community always falls back on "only sonicfox can do it" are the reasons only sonicfox can do it. When did y'all get so scrubby?

I was born a scrub, and I intend to go out that way,

 

[ChoseDeath]

I've been living under a rock for some days. Can someone tell me why is D'vorah being considered top tier now?

More flawed logic on TYM.

I'm playing against a character a lot online = Got buffed to top tier status.

That. That right there.

 

[Sutter Pain]

All i know is next gen jacqui is top 5 and I like it.

 

[lordlosh]

I give many excuses? I'm just trying to tell you that his playstyle relies on match-ups. That's nothing bad but it ruins your image of SonicFox beating everyone with no matter what character. It's not that gold and shiny. Even trash tiers can have good match-ups. Sonic knows it and uses that.


Oh... commentators. Please note that their job is to talk and get people excited. Again, SF picks character which against a specific opponent has a good match up.


It's funny how you didn't follow I2 scene but knows that CC was always trash...


Sektor was top tier at the end of MKX. SF knew how to use it better than others, you're right. But that also confirms the fact that he is picking favourable match-ups.

https://testyourmight.com/threads/mortal-kombat-x-patch-notes-6-23-15.53624/

Above you have patch notes with Kitana buffs. Next time at least try to look for them on your own. It's not that hard boi.

My point from the begining was, if you are good enough you can make almost every character viable. Just like SonicFox has done in the past many times.
Also that every character is open to all.

I know what the job of commentators are. That doesnt mean they arent telling the truth, right ?
Again you didnt answer the most important question i asked. Who were the players that was successful with Kitana or Erron Black in MK10 at the time SonicFox used them ? I give you the answer right there - no one. Same with Triborg.
The guy sees something in character, that no one else dare to touch, use or see them as low tier, and he start to dominate with them.
This is what i like about him. And then this characters suddenly become top tier.

I wanted the patch notes, simply because of the date. Its in January.
ESL and EVO when SonicFox played Kitana first at tournament was the same year in July. How so no one knows how good she is and how so no one ever discover how OP she is and pick her ?
He also use her in ESL season 2 in 2016.

Anyway this stretched too much and we get off the main thread.

 

[DC King]

My point from the begining was, if you are good enough you can make almost every character viable. Just like SonicFox has done in the past many times.
Also that every character is open to all.

I know what the job of commentators are. That doesnt mean they arent telling the truth, right ?
Again you didnt answer the most important question i asked. Who were the players that was successful with Kitana or Erron Black in MK10 at the time SonicFox used them ? I give you the answer right there - no one. Same with Triborg.
The guy sees something in character, that no one else dare to touch, use or see them as low tier, and he start to dominate with them.
This is what i like about him. And then this characters suddenly become top tier.

I wanted the patch notes, simply because of the date. Its in January.
ESL and EVO when SonicFox played Kitana first at tournament was the same year in July. How so no one knows how good she is and how so no one ever discover how OP she is and pick her ?
He also use her in ESL season 2 in 2016.

Anyway this stretched too much and we get off the main thread.

I don’t mean no harm but you doing a little too much riding

 

[Snoop88]

My point from the begining was, if you are good enough you can make almost every character viable. Just like SonicFox has done in the past many times.
Also that every character is open to all.

A great player can make low tier character look good because of his skill. But you're wrong if you think that Sonic can win tournament(a major stacked with pros) with any character he wants.

He won't pick low tier char unless he got good match-up or his skill level is much higher than his opponent.

Commentators are saying the truth. However sometimes they tend to overreact due to the nature of their job.

I can't tell you the players which were as successful with Erron, Kitana back in the days when Sonic used them. I don't remember every tournament Top 8. But they were used by other people too and where not LOW TIER! Sektor was top 3!

Now... where the hell did you saw that this patch was released in January? In thread name it is written "Patch Notes 6/23/15".

It was June... not January. They couldn't be released in January cause... MKX was released in April...

You are so attached to your point of view that you are seeing things as you want them to see not as they are.

 

[lordlosh]

Yep you are right for date, dont know why i was thinking its said January on the thread.

But you are wrong for that a skilled player/SonicFox cant win a major with a weak character. Hes done more then that many times. Injustice 2 ESL PRO SERIES biggest tournament he won it with The Joker. Character everyone are saying it`s low.

And no i dont remember anyone who used Erron Black the time SonicFox played him, forget about Gunslinger. Same as Kitana. Atleast a pro who have some success.
No matter this topic is done for me. I see your point but i dont agree with it.

 

[Snoop88]

Yep you are right for date, dont know why i was thinking its said January on the thread.

But you are wrong for that a skilled player/SonicFox cant win a major with a weak character. Hes done more then that many times. Injustice 2 ESL PRO SERIES biggest tournament he won it with The Joker. Character everyone are saying it`s low.

And no i dont remember anyone who used Erron Black the time SonicFox played him, forget about Gunslinger. Same as Kitana. Atleast a pro who have some success.
No matter this topic is done for me. I see your point but i dont agree with it.

Yea... many times won a major with low tier. Heh especially Evo with Alien Acidic His first I2 tournament he won with Deadshot. Now that was a kind of a low tier huh?

Go check his tournament history and see what characters he used through the whole tournament not only Grand Finals.

You don't have to agree with me now. Sooner or later you will see what I am talking about.

 

[lordlosh]

In your book he may not, in my book he made it many times. Different view.
Injustice 2 Pro Series 2018 he won it with the Joker and he played through the whole tournament. He beat Rewind Batman(everyone consider him as top tier) twice in final and GF.

Same tournament but 2017 he won it with CC and DH - 120k.
Where every consider his character not even close to top tier.

But i see it from the very begining in your post you are trying to downplay him, and but, but, but, find only excuses for his victory with low tier characters, no one ever touch.

I dont mind your opinion i dont agree with it, i cant convince you to believe in something, but you cant as well.
This is last from me cause it`s stretched too much. I made my point.
Good luck.

 

[Snoop88]

In your book he may not, in my book he made it many times. Different view.
Injustice 2 Pro Series 2018 he won it with the Joker and he played through the whole tournament. He beat Rewind Batman(everyone consider him as top tier) twice in final and GF.

Same tournament but 2017 he won it with CC and DH - 120k.
Where every consider his character not even close to top tier.

But i see it from the very begining in your post you are trying to downplay him, and but, but, but, find only excuses for his victory with low tier characters, no one ever touch.

I dont mind your opinion i dont agree with it, i cant convince you to believe in something, but you cant as well.
This is last from me cause it`s stretched too much. I made my point.
Good luck.

In Pro Series 2018 he also used CC against Hayatei's Robin and Black Manta against HeeyGeorge. Why he didn't sticked to Joker?

He used Joker also against ForeverKing's Batman in other tourneys. Even when he was playing different characters. Maybe he sees something about the match-up which others don't see.

I tried to list some facts and show you some things which you might not see but you list them all as but, but, but but, downplaying etc. You don't want to hear things which doesn't match your point of view.

You too can't convince me to your point. You're saying that I'm downplaying him but you're doing the opposite.

 

[xKMMx]

I really don't think the top tiers have changed at all except maybe Erron. The only difference now is that you will see more of the criminally under played characters that are also broke AF like Jax, Baraka, Kabal, Kang, Noob. Kollector got a lot of buffs and him being able to play "the floor is lava" to make you walk then bitch smack you with a half screen normal combo launcher seems broke af but idk. EDIT: Also not going to stop spreading salt about shangs bnbs now doing 20-21%. What a fucking dumb change. Sent him straight to the trash imo.

How do you qualify your statement that Jax, Baraka, Kabal, Kang, Noob are broke AF?

Noob has like zero mix.

Liu Kang has gaps for days.

Jax and Kabal are tough for sure because they can stay safe a lot.

Baraka? Aside from big boy damage is a pretty easy character to get around.

Kollectors half screen meterless launcher is super minus. How is that broke?

I'm sure you're exaggerating a bit on purpose but just curious.

 

[Th3F3AR]

How do you qualify your statement that Jax, Baraka, Kabal, Kang, Noob are broke AF?

Noob has like zero mix.

Right out the gate it's hard to take this seriously when you open with "dude he cant mix". Noob has very high damage, restands, good strings, good zoning in the second variation that just got buffed and given combos with EX slide, with good buttons to top it off. He is also quite hard to punish on a lot of his moves due to his shadow not having a hurtbox, like Dvorah and her pincer things. Very safe character that plays neutral very well and has high damage. Also worth noting he has 2 throw KBs which is big dick in this game.

Liu Kang has gaps for days.

Considering this character is played entirely around F4,F3, and B124 idk where you are getting gaps from. His entire stagger game revolves around the gap in F43U4. Idk wym here.

Baraka? Aside from big boy damage is a pretty easy character to get around.

Easy to get around? What barakas are you playing against? Despite him being pants on head retarded autopilot like 3/4 of the cast in this game. This character has extreme damage and every tool he needs to consistently get it out. Even if you do well against him he can end the round in quite literally two hits if FB is in play. His midscreen optimal does 40% for 1 bar. One more touch into FB after that and goodbye thank you for playing MK11 today try again tomorrow.

Kollectors half screen meterless launcher is super minus. How is that broke?

Not saying that the move itself is broken, but he can force you to move by putting a DOT on literally 3/4 of the screen. Cant block it if you are walking foward or jumping to avoid getting roasted by green fire.

 

[xKMMx]

Yea so they are not easy to beat. I didn't down play them at all.
I simply asked what makes them broken. Because you have a hard time beating them when they are played by capable players and they have good tools doesn't mean they are broken.
Broken is broken. Hard to beat is hard to beat.

There's a difference.

Lets play though. PSN is KMFM_213

 

[xKMMx]

Right out the gate it's hard to take this seriously when you open with "dude he cant mix". Noob has very high damage, restands, good strings, good zoning in the second variation that just got buffed and given combos with EX slide, with good buttons to top it off. He is also quite hard to punish on a lot of his moves due to his shadow not having a hurtbox, like Dvorah and her pincer things. Very safe character that plays neutral very well and has high damage. Also worth noting he has 2 throw KBs which is big dick in this game.



Considering this character is played entirely around F4,F3, and B124 idk where you are getting gaps from. His entire stagger game revolves around the gap in F43U4. Idk wym here.



Easy to get around? What barakas are you playing against? Despite him being pants on head (soap bar in my mouth) autopilot like 3/4 of the cast in this game. This character has extreme damage and every tool he needs to consistently get it out. Even if you do well against him he can end the round in quite literally two hits if FB is in play. His midscreen optimal does 40% for 1 bar. One more touch into FB after that and goodbye thank you for playing MK11 today try again tomorrow.



Not saying that the move itself is broken, but he can force you to move by putting a DOT on literally 3/4 of the screen. Cant block it if you are walking foward or jumping to avoid getting roasted by green fire.

I will admit that Noob Seeing double looks a lot better after the patch but far from broken. There is isn't one broken character in this game.

 

[Vslayer]

That's how I see it, and they're in order.