Match-up Discussion The New Kenshi MU Chart - Prepare for Debate

[Pig Of The Hut]

I'm not claiming I'm better than anyone, I'm just saying we're different. If you want vids, check www.youtube.com/mk9argentina or www.mk-argentina.com.ar

post some of your communities kenshi players vs ermacs

 

[TakeAChance]

Pig, Pig! I found some new tech. Jade goes 9-1 OVER Kenshi. I found it in Training mode, with unlimited meter.

 

[Owerbart]

post some of your communities kenshi players vs ermacs

Didn't you read my first post? the one you said you were confused? I said I havent played against tons of Kenshies. The evidence I present is frame data, which is the same here, in your house, or in Taiwan.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Didn't you read my first post? the one you said you were confused? I said I havent played against tons of Kenshies. The evidence I present is frame data, which is the same here, in your house, or in Taiwan.

basing a mu completely off frame data is theory fighting at its best

theres tons of info not in frame data

 

[Zoidberg747]

basing a mu completely off frame data is theory fighting at its best

theres tons of info not in frame data

But LBSH, frame data also doesnt lie.

#DevilsAdvocate

 

[Owerbart]

basing a mu completely off frame data is theory fighting at its best

theres tons of info not in frame data

But at the same time, you can't ignore it. I repeat, it's countless the times I TKP'd Kenshis out of SC and Slash. Next gathering I'll record some matches against some of the best Kenshis of our scene.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

But LBSH, frame data also doesnt lie.

#DevilsAdvocate

by all means metzos, you and whoever can go create your own kenshi mu chart and put 6-4

Im just saying i think i know wtf im talking about seeing how it is ive played every ermac that plays in high level tourneys. Im making my character more OP by saying 7-3, if it were 5-5 id say 5-5.

Again I think its most logical to listen to those who have actually gone out and played these MUs offline in the highest leveled environments rather than looking at #s and playing this mu with less than avg kenshis and having less than adequate offline scenes

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

But at the same time, you can't ignore it. I repeat, it's countless the times I TKP'd Kenshis out of SC and Slash. Next gathering I'll record some matches against some of the best Kenshis of our scene.

Exactly, YOUR scene's best kenshi.
Im pretty sure i could 8-2 him w csz

vvv See Below

 

[Zoidberg747]

by all means metzos, you and whoever can go create your own kenshi mu chart and put 6-4

Im just saying i think i know wtf im talking about seeing how it is ive played every ermac that plays in high level tourneys. Im making my character more OP by saying 7-3, if it were 5-5 id say 5-5.

Again I think its most logical to listen to those who have actually gone out and played these MUs offline in the highest leveled environments rather than looking at #s and playing this mu with less than avg kenshis and having less than adequate offline scenes

Like I said, im not commenting on numbers. Im just saying you can't ignore frame data.

Edit: If he was really able to TKP SC and Slash on reaction, would you not agree that is a decent talking point?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Like I said, im not commenting on numbers. Im just saying you can't ignore frame data.

You cant ignore 2 years worth of results

 

[Zoidberg747]

You cant ignore 2 years worth of results

I disagree. If we just look at past results we are assuming that everyone is going to play the matchup like it has been played for two years. If we look at frame data we can look for ways to approach the MUs differently and if that is the case, the MU number could POSSIBLY change.

If no one tries to play MUs differently, the results will always be the same.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I disagree. If we just look at past results we are assuming that everyone is going to play the matchup like it has been played for two years. If we look at frame data we can look for ways to approach the MUs differently and if that is the case, the MU number could POSSIBLY change.

If no one tries to play MUs differently, the results will always be the same.

By all means

You guys should go make the complete tier list for every character right now in a new thread and back it up w no video evidence, results or anything but purely based on frame data #s

REO your tier list is no longer valid, these guys have it figured out Frame data tier list only , not results or grinding out mus with the best players over 2 years and discussing it for 2 years

Matter a fact ill brb, need to go create the new 2013 AE tier list for a game i never played, but w frame data ill re do their tier list

 

[Zoidberg747]

By all means

You guys should go make the complete tier list for every character right now in a new thread and back it up w no video evidence, results or anything but purely based on #s

REO your tier list is no longer valid, these guys have it figured out Frame data tier list only , not results or grinding out mus with the best players over 2 years and discussing it for 2 years

Matter a fact ill brb, need to go create the new 2013 AE tier list for a game i never played, but w frame data ill re do their tier list

Your not getting my point. We should not look at past results and assume everything is set in stone.

We need to keep thinking outside the box and finding new ways to approach matchups, in order to evolve the game.

I AM NOT saying it is 6-4 Kenshi, I am saying I think Owerbart brings up a decent point that people should look into.

For Emphasis:

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT #s

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

I just checked, according to frame data and theory jade vs kenshi is now 5-5 and 4-6 at worst, not 9-1

Mr. Mileena
GLoRToR
RunwayMafia
AestheticLove
Blackula
Big D

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Your not getting my point. We should not look at past results and assume everything is set in stone.

We need to keep thinking outside the box and finding new ways to approach matchups, in order to evolve the game.

I AM NOT saying it is 6-4 Kenshi, I am saying I think Owerbart brings up a decent point that people should look into.

For Emphasis:

I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT #s

Dude he literally said TKP me out sc

WHY THE LIVING HELL WOULD I EVER SC ERMAC WHEN WE'RE AT A NEUTRAL SITUATION

WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT KENSHI HAS Z E R O REASONS TO DO ANYTHING IN THIS MU TILL ERMAC DOES ANYTHING???

I can literally hold the block button and cook bacon and wait for a move then react. Im sorry im not sc 24/7 is neutral to disadvantage situations.

And im sorry some world reknown kenshis play the mu like this - im sorry i dont

Theres a reason EVERY F ING ERMAC and logical top player so far has agreed w me its 7-3. Now until i see some f ing factual info in video form and hiugh level play nothing is changing.

Am i stubborn? NO - Im logical. CASE AND POINT BARAKA PLAYER: Somecubanguy and DR did both of this for baraka and noob and look what i did. I listened, watched and adjusted.

I wont take theory fighting as a means to change. Theory fighters thought jade/kenshi was 5-5

Theory fighting can G T F O here

Note to all: Kenshi doesnt rush ermac down in this mu.

 

[Owerbart]

Exactly, YOUR scene's best kenshi.
Im pretty sure i could 8-2 him w csz

vvv See Below

Do you read yourself? I'm putting up unquestionable evidence. I'm just pointing out some tips that may change the MU. What's your problem on constantly downplay our scenes? We don't go to EVO not because lacking level, but because shit is too expensive. This MU could be differently played.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Dude he literally said TKP me out sc

WHY THE LIVING HELL WOULD I EVER SC ERMAC WHEN WE'RE AT A NEUTRAL SITUATION

WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT KENSHI HAS Z E R O REASONS TO DO ANYTHING IN THIS MU TILL ERMAC DOES ANYTHING???

Note to all: Kenshi doesnt rush ermac down in this mu.

Ok

So now you took away that option. Not every new approach will work, but that doesnt mean people cant try and figure stuff out.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Do you read yourself? I'm putting up unquestionable evidence. I'm just pointing out some tips that may change the MU. What's your problem on constantly downplay our scenes? We don't go to EVO not because lacking level, but because shit is too expensive. This MU could be differently played.

How much would it cost for you and metzos?

Is it around the same for each of you?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Ok

So now you took away that option. Not every new approach will work, but that doesnt mean people cant try and figure stuff out.

edited above and added more

Yea but in theory im not interested. Do it the right way w results, video, etc.

for example: someone calls me and says "what if yada yada yada beats yada yada yada"

example: Jade ex glow against kabal ndc

IN THEORY FIGHTING LAND this is an unbelievable tactic. In reality its R E T A R D E D and never works.

please sit back and think about that for a sec. Think about how a theory fighter would think thats a good idea. Because guess what ? Its an atrocious strategy

 

[Zoidberg747]

edited above and added more

Yea but in theory im not interested. Do it the right way w results, video, etc.

for example: someone calls me and says "what if yada yada yada beats yada yada yada"

example: Jade ex glow against kabal ndc

IN THEORY FIGHTING LAND this is an unbelievable tactic. In reality its R E T A R D E D and never works.

please sit back and think about that for a sec. Think about how a theory fighter would think thats a good idea. Because guess what ? Its an atrocious strategy

Fair enough

 

[THTB]

snip

This matchup is 7-3 Kenshi. I tried Ermac vs Pigshi. Never again. Just never again.

The only spot Ermac wins is max TKP range. But in reality it is impossible to keep someone in that tiny space for longer than 2 seconds.

 

[Owerbart]

Dude he literally said TKP me out sc

WHY THE LIVING HELL WOULD I EVER SC ERMAC WHEN WE'RE AT A NEUTRAL SITUATION

WHY DO PEOPLE NOT UNDERSTAND THAT KENSHI HAS Z E R O REASONS TO DO ANYTHING IN THIS MU TILL ERMAC DOES ANYTHING???

I can literally hold the block button and cook bacon and wait for a move then react. Im sorry im not sc 24/7 is neutral to disadvantage situations.

And im sorry some world reknown kenshis play the mu like this - im sorry i dont

Theres a reason EVERY F ING ERMAC and logical top player so far has agreed w me its 7-3. Now until i see some f ing factual info in video form and hiugh level play nothing is changing.

Am i stubborn? NO - Im logical. CASE AND POINT BARAKA PLAYER: Somecubanguy and DR did both of this for baraka and noob and look what i did. I listened, watched and adjusted.

I wont take theory fighting as a means to change. Theory fighters thought jade/kenshi was 5-5

Theory fighting can G T F O here

Note to all: Kenshi doesnt rush ermac down in this mu.

where the hell did I say TKP out of SC? I pointed out about teleflurry and and slash. I'm not saying it's 5-5 dude, I just gave some pointers and all you said was "no".

About flight passages, they are around 1500 USS that added to the fact that due to our current foreign policy we can't buy neither Euros nor Dollars, as well as not entering dollars in the country, well, we are fucked.

Edited the price.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

But at the same time, you can't ignore it. I repeat, it's countless the times I TKP'd Kenshis out of SC and Slash. Next gathering I'll record some matches against some of the best Kenshis of our scene.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here sir

Here is where u said u TKP kenshi out of sc

 

[Owerbart]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Here sir

Here is where u said u TKP kenshi out of sc

AND slash. When I said SC I talked about outranging, not outspeeding.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

AND slash. When I said SC I talked about outranging, not outspeeding.

Then man honestly it says a lot about the kenshis you're playing