Match-up Discussion The New Kenshi MU Chart - Prepare for Debate

[Pig Of The Hut]

the smoke MU to me is easy i main smoke and i can beat kenshi's but never fought a offline one but another thing pig the Sub Zero MU i know its hard for sub to get it but i got to ask atleast why is it not a 8-2 sub has so much stuff he can do with unblockables and i dont know if anyone has found it out but the air to ground ice freeze still works on the wall but from what i found only against a few characters but it works really good if you can prison them and do the unblockables sub has i know the MU is hard but the things i found out with sub have made it atleast a 8-2 if you can get them to the wall of the screen and hold them there i played this MU alot and i lost alot but i feel its kinda easy when you have them in the wall but like i said i still feel like sub zero if done right and gets in on kenshi sub might be able to win but its still a really bad MU just trying to make it where its not a 9-1 i know im going to get blown up for this comment but i'm just going to say it because sub can do better then a 9-1 atleast

Tom Brady and Denzell would be best at explaining
It could be 8-2

 

[Metzos]

Metzos u r going to need to just come to america until then man ill listen what you have to say but 7-3 from exp of the worlds best players

If MK makes it to EVO 2k13 i ll try my best to attend, that, i can assure you. Until then, its 6 - 4 Kenshi from exp from the OTHER HALF of the worlds best players.

 

[shad0ki11er 27]

yeah thanks pig i just think it can be a 8-2 but still kenshi is really hard to get in on

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If MK makes it to EVO 2k13 i ll try my best to attend, that, i can assure you. Until then, its 6 - 4 Kenshi from exp from the OTHER HALF of the worlds best players.

Which kenshis

 

[Metzos]

Which kenshis

Cimmerian and Nikollas. They are my sparring partners in the particular MU. Their zoning, reactions and executions are pretty good. Also, like i told you before, you cannot punish Ermac's TKP outside of sweep range if you dont have bars. Just because we dont have any tournaments to attend in EU doesnt mean we gave up on MK. We are still playing the game as hardcore as we did when we used to attend EU tourneys. Dont look down on us man. Seriously.

Post edited.

 

[Death]

Cimmerian and Nikollas. They are my sparring partners in the particular MU. Their zoning, reactions and executions are pretty good. Just because we dont have any tournaments to attend in EU doesnt mean we gave up on MK. We are still playing the game as hardcore as we did when we used to attend EU tourneys. Dont look down on us man. Seriously.

If EVO isnt announced your coming to FR.

 

[Metzos]

If EVO isnt announced your coming to FR.

Date ?

 

[Death]

Date ?

Last weekend of March. I'd start saving.

 

[Metzos]

Last weekend of March. I'd start saving.

Dont know about that cause i ll start my practice profession in March. EVO is my big bet, or any other major at the end of summer. Real life > video games.

 

[WayoftheFist]

the smoke MU to me is easy i main smoke and i can beat kenshi's but never fought a offline one but another thing pig the Sub Zero MU i know its hard for sub to get it but i got to ask atleast why is it not a 8-2 sub has so much stuff he can do with unblockables and i dont know if anyone has found it out but the air to ground ice freeze still works on the wall but from what i found only against a few characters but it works really good if you can prison them and do the unblockables sub has i know the MU is hard but the things i found out with sub have made it atleast a 8-2 if you can get them to the wall of the screen and hold them there i played this MU alot and i lost alot but i feel its kinda easy when you have them in the wall but like i said i still feel like sub zero if done right and gets in on kenshi sub might be able to win but its still a really bad MU just trying to make it where its not a 9-1 i know im going to get blown up for this comment but i'm just going to say it because sub can do better then a 9-1 atleast

First of all when you say the air to ground ice freeze thing works against the wall that sounds like his reset. I honestly can't think of anything else you could mean by that. Also I have to agree with 9-1. Unless the Kenshi makes several critical errors you are not getting him to the wall and he still isn't exactly the easiest character to keep there. You can't really set up the 212 trap in the corner on him either, he can just armor right through it and advance behind the spirit charge to get some room. He really doesn't have to respect anything Sub has other than sliding under the teleflurry or his ex icebeam. At the highest level where Kenshi gives you absolutely nothing Sub can't really take anything from him. I've fought this match countless times and you might get the player to fuck up and drop a match once in a great while but character to character Kenshi is almost built to destroy Sub Zero.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

If EVO isnt announced your coming to FR.

we need to end this ermac upplaying

 

[Zoidberg747]

I've played ALL the best ermacs

no regards to random teleports

Idk man, I can't imagine less than 7/3

I am no ermac expert, but I dont think any good ermac random teleports...lol

Man 7-3 or 6-4, still a hell of a lot better than the Baraka one. Counterpicking a 2-8 matchup with 3-7 matchup. Like a baws

 

[Impose]

I am no ermac expert, but I dont think any good ermac random teleports...lol

Man 7-3 or 6-4, still a hell of a lot better than the Baraka one. Counterpicking a 2-8 matchup with 3-7 matchup. Like a baws

Random teleports when you notice what a Kenshi likes to do at certain points.

Anticipating a DBF 4 and porting.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Random teleports when you notice what a Kenshi likes to do at certain points.

Anticipating a DBF 4 and porting.

Well yeah I guess If you know he is going to try and shoulder you could maybe jump back teleport, but you could also jump forward iAB.

 

[Owerbart]

Pig Of The Hut I'll jump in with Metzos and say that Ermac isn't that easy MU for Kenshi.
Before you ask "what kenshies do you play?" I'll say that there are not some true Kenshi mains (yet), but some of the top notch players are starting to use him and from my perspective it doesn't feel that much of uncomfortable. Because force balls are uneffective in this MU, Ermac can't really zone Kenshi. TKPs must be correctly spaced, and I think that TKP outranging SC should be highly taken into account.

If I understood frame data correctly:

1. Just staying at max TKP range can lure Kenshi to come into you. Teleflurry needs 21 frames to execute the first hit or to land the full sequence? If its just to connect then Ermac would have 6 frames to TKP on reaction.

2. As stating above, the Ermac player should always be considering and measuring the distance of both TKP and SC. As long as Kenshi doesn't have meter, you should be able to spam TKP for a while.

3. Kenshi can only use the spirit overhead from outside max range TKP, Because slash is 25 frames vs 17 of TKP. Ermac has active frames in the whole hitbox instantly, while both SC and Slash both function like projectile in that way, because they need to travel some part of the screen before connecting with you (in SC, the spirit runs to you, in Slash, it falls over you)

Besides that, Ermac highly outdamages Kenshi, and I'm not buying Kenshi having better Mixups than Ermac.

Once again, I haven't played your Kenshi (I'm making a trip to NY and FL in March), but you haven't played against mine, nor SpideR's Ermac. I wouldn't say that we are better than the Ermacs you play (hell no) but we have a very different playstyle.

EDIT: I CANNOT STRESS how important is to have a complete understanding of TKP and SC range.

 

[Owerbart]

My point is that if Ermac capitalizes on the fact that TKP has an instant connection (what makes Ermac capable of zoning Lao, while Kenshi cannot) and Kenshi's specials are not instant, it might be different than 7-3.

EDIT: On the other side I'm a huge Ermac up-player so you choose.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Pig Of The Hut I'll jump in with Metzos and say that Ermac isn't that easy MU for Kenshi.
Before you ask "what kenshies do you play?" I'll say that there are not some true Kenshi mains (yet), but some of the top notch players are starting to use him and from my perspective it doesn't feel that much of uncomfortable. Because force balls are uneffective in this MU, Ermac can't really zone Kenshi. TKPs must be correctly spaced, and I think that TKP outranging SC should be highly taken into account.

If I understood frame data correctly:

1. Just staying at max TKP range can lure Kenshi to come into you. Teleflurry needs 21 frames to execute the first hit or to land the full sequence? If its just to connect then Ermac would have 6 frames to TKP on reaction.

2. As stating above, the Ermac player should always be considering and measuring the distance of both TKP and SC. As long as Kenshi doesn't have meter, you should be able to spam TKP for a while.

3. Kenshi can only use the spirit overhead from outside max range TKP, Because slash is 25 frames vs 17 of TKP. Ermac has active frames in the whole hitbox instantly, while both SC and Slash both function like projectile in that way, because they need to travel some part of the screen before connecting with you (in SC, the spirit runs to you, in Slash, it falls over you)

Besides that, Ermac highly outdamages Kenshi, and I'm not buying Kenshi having better Mixups than Ermac.

Once again, I haven't played your Kenshi (I'm making a trip to NY and FL in March), but you haven't played against mine, nor SpideR's Ermac. I wouldn't say that we are better than the Ermacs you play (hell no) but we have a very different playstyle.

EDIT: I CANNOT STRESS how important is to have a complete understanding of TKP and SC range.

I just don't know what to say

I really don't







pimpimjim
Big D
MOE30W
Please help me here , I'm just .......lost

 

[Owerbart]

I just don't know what to say

I really don't








Big D
@gga moe30w
Please help me here , I'm just .......lost

what didn't you understand?

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

what didn't you understand?

That ermac has a chance

I'm telling u, this MU is badddddddddddd despite any theory fighting u put out there

I'm not being dickish, I've just played every top placing ermac man and I just feel the wrath kenshi puts on ermac

 

[Owerbart]

That ermac has a chance

I'm telling u, this MU is badddddddddddd despite any theory fighting u put out there

I'm not being dickish, I've just played every top placing ermac man and I just feel the wrath kenshi puts on ermac

man you scared the shit out of me because i thought my grammar was bad or something.

 

[Metzos]

we need to end this ermac upplaying

Dunno if you are trolling or not... But if you dont you should REALLY stop being so arrogant, man. I really like you, but sometimes you act like a douche. Just because i dont agree with your particular MU number, doesnt mean i m "up playing" Ermac... Jesus, Maxter was right. Also what Owerbart said. Best Ermac's in the world ? According to who ? Even in the Ermac forum we arent even sure who the best Ermac's are yet, we just have a top 3 ATM, and yet you say you have played the best Ermac's in the WORLD ? Are you serious man ? Plz, and that goes to many of the top US players over there, stop being so high and mighty about being the best in MK cause that remains to be seen, since there never was a tournament that gathered the best. Even the UK guys were so fucked up emotionaly and psychologically , cause of Foxy's accident and they werent in a position to play to their fullest (and STILL Foxy made it to top 16 if i remember correctly !). They could have played MUCH better than, and i know cause i have faced them countless times. There are other scenes out there as well (Greece, Italy, Russia, Poland, South America, France, etc). Each player has different play styles and faces each MU's differently with his/her character. And no i m not "up playing" my character, i was just pissed to see him not being represented correctly for like an entire year since the game came out because of majority of the top US being so arrogant and saying "well he has no armor, his zoning is overrated, his pressure sucks, so he sucks in general." And if you really want the truth if it wasnt for Ermac players like me who mained him since day 1 and exposed stuff he has and discuss strategies, Ermac would still be fucking C tier in your tier lists. So plz dont come to me with these BS saying i m "up playing" Ermac, cause i m not. I m speaking with facts and offline exp and all i get in return are childish comments regarding that i havent faced the "best". Yeah i havent. But neither have you guys. Deal with it, cause its the fucking truth. I m out.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Dunno if you are trolling or not... But if you dont you should REALLY stop being so arrogant, man. I really like you, but sometimes you act like a douche. Just because i dont agree with your particular MU number, doesnt mean i m "up playing" Ermac... Jesus, Maxter was right. Also what Owerbart said. Best Ermac's in the world ? According to who ? Even in the Ermac forum we arent even sure who the best Ermac's are yet, we just have a top 3 ATM, and yet you say you have played the best Ermac's in the WORLD ? Are you serious man ? Plz, and that goes to many of the top US players over there, stop being so high and mighty about being the best in MK cause that remains to be seen, since there never was a tournament that gathered the best. Even the UK guys were so fucked up emotionaly and psychologically , cause of Foxy's accident and they werent in a position to play to their fullest (and STILL Foxy made it to top 16 if i remember correctly !). They could have played MUCH better than, and i know cause i have faced them countless times. There are other scenes out there as well (Greece, Italy, Russia, Poland, South America, France, etc). Each player has different play styles and faces each MU's differently with his/her character. And no i m not "up playing" my character, i was just pissed to see him not being represented correctly for like an entire year since the game came out because of majority of the top US being so arrogant and saying "well he has no armor, his zoning is overrated, his pressure sucks, so he sucks in general." And if you really want the truth if it wasnt for Ermac players like me who mained him since day 1 and exposed stuff he has and discuss strategies, Ermac would still be fucking C tier in your tier lists. So plz dont come to me with these BS saying i m "up playing" Ermac, cause i m not. I m speaking with facts and offline exp and all i get in return are childish comments regarding that i havent faced the "best". Yeah i havent. But neither have you guys. Deal with it, cause its the fucking truth. I m out.

Sorry, I just need to play u and we'll see then. Post whatever it is u found

But real quick about foxy, I beat him bad before accident

I was just going off my experiences and my experiences show I've seen his win pose honestly once . This MU is hella bad. Kenshi straight up bullies him, builds hella meter in this MU just like the cage/kit/Sonya MU. Even if U touch me I have breaker.

I have no reason to approach u and when I do I use safe armor that's +7 for FTs. The last thing I'm worried about is a TKP to teleport mix up on knockdown

And IDc if people think I'm arrogant , I just travel all the f ing time and play w the best players consistently so I sort of feel like I do know wtf I'm talking about

Keep in mind saying its 7-3 is actually making the ermac players look better, 6-4 doesn't

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Dunno if you are trolling or not... But if you dont you should REALLY stop being so arrogant, man. I really like you, but sometimes you act like a douche. Just because i dont agree with your particular MU number, doesnt mean i m "up playing" Ermac... Jesus, Maxter was right. Also what Owerbart said. Best Ermac's in the world ? According to who ? Even in the Ermac forum we arent even sure who the best Ermac's are yet, we just have a top 3 ATM, and yet you say you have played the best Ermac's in the WORLD ? Are you serious man ? Plz, and that goes to many of the top US players over there, stop being so high and mighty about being the best in MK cause that remains to be seen, since there never was a tournament that gathered the best. Even the UK guys were so fucked up emotionaly and psychologically , cause of Foxy's accident and they werent in a position to play to their fullest (and STILL Foxy made it to top 16 if i remember correctly !). They could have played MUCH better than, and i know cause i have faced them countless times. There are other scenes out there as well (Greece, Italy, Russia, Poland, South America, France, etc). Each player has different play styles and faces each MU's differently with his/her character. And no i m not "up playing" my character, i was just pissed to see him not being represented correctly for like an entire year since the game came out because of majority of the top US being so arrogant and saying "well he has no armor, his zoning is overrated, his pressure sucks, so he sucks in general." And if you really want the truth if it wasnt for Ermac players like me who mained him since day 1 and exposed stuff he has and discuss strategies, Ermac would still be fucking C tier in your tier lists. So plz dont come to me with these BS saying i m "up playing" Ermac, cause i m not. I m speaking with facts and offline exp and all i get in return are childish comments regarding that i havent faced the "best". Yeah i havent. But neither have you guys. Deal with it, cause its the fucking truth. I m out.

Ask Blackula Under_The_Mayo CD jr REO

I speak my mind a lot and it gets me in trouble so it's better for others to speak sometimes in place of me
So get all their opinions on it . I don't sugar coat MU, downplay or up play

You're talking to someone who says kenshi kabal could be 5-5 and so by losing this MU I look bad but I'm real about it

Btw that MU # is heavily undecided , reo and I will figure it out

 

[Owerbart]

I'm not sure on what "upplaying" technically means, but what we are trying to say is that some of you guys are really sleeping on the character. Call it theory fighting, but the number of times I TKP'd Kenshis having their SC's and Slashes stuffed because TKP has an instant hitbox is countless.

I repeat: South America is not just Doctrine Dark and Mordrek. I think we proved our point when Lurker schooled B-W1zz in the Raiden mirror. At least Spider's Ermac and mine are waaaay different than what you fight in USA.

 

[Under_The_Mayo]

Ask Blackula Under_The_Mayo CD jr REO

I speak my mind a lot and it gets me in trouble so it's better for others to speak sometimes in place of me
So get all their opinions on it . I don't sugar coat MU, downplay or up play

You're talking to someone who says kenshi kabal could be 5-5 and so by losing this MU I look bad but I'm real about it

Btw that MU # is heavily undecided , reo and I will figure it out

Probably a solid 7 - 3 Kenshi against Ermac. I appreciate the tag.

But come on Pig, you knnooooow Kenshi Kabal is never gonna be better than 4 - 6. Kenshi has some great tools in the fight and great corner pressure. But the high hit box standing 2 infinite guarantees it'll never be an even fight.