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Subzero General Discussion Thread

Xyero

Xyero

Noob
I may be a noob but does anyone know how to deal with really good zoners? I get zoned by Kitana/Kabal or any characters with extremely fast projectiles, tips?
 
ogrimtitan

ogrimtitan

Mortal
Xyero said:
I may be a noob but does anyone know how to deal with really good zoners? I get zoned by Kitana/Kabal or any characters with extremely fast projectiles, tips?
Click to expand...
I'm no expert, but I can offer you a few obvious tips:

1. Sub is actually really good for trading projectiles if you have the health and spacing for it. You just have to know your proper spacing. Playing full screen is really not to your advantage, but if you play a bit closer than that, and you trade a projectile, you can almost always dash in and get something of a follow up. The further you are, the less you can get, and if a projectile knocks down (Kabal), being closer is your friend because you have more time to get in and get your punish.

2. Know your variation-specific anti-zoning options. If you're playing DoW, enhanced ice ball blows through other projectiles, giving you the freeze and the full-combo punish. If you're playing TI, you have air axe and slide to work with. Be sure you know how to slide from a crouch without standing up first. You can also land two enhanced slides in a row to load up slide's KB and make your opponent second-guess throwing another projectile.

3. When you get a freeze, make a deliberate decision about where you want to be after your punish. Are you doing well in the zoning war? Then maybe knock your opponent full screen and start over. If you want to be in, maybe don't finish your punish combo. Stop early and reset them into stagger mixups. Also, be sure to combo them with whatever combo will put them in the corner, which may require you to jump over, use enhanced slide, etc.

Overall, Sub's actually pretty difficult to zone effectively if you know his options.
 
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ogrimtitan

ogrimtitan

Mortal
Question: I know Thin Ice is mostly regarded as a second-class variation at the moment, but is there a reason I see people in that variant using f24 instead of f2~slide when they need an OH mixup? I ask because they're both full-combo punishable, but slide has the following benefits:
-Faster, harder to react and punish.
-Shrinks SZ's hitbox, so some s1 punishes won't reach.
-Requires a fast OH~low block switch from opponent.
-It's possible to have his slide KB loaded, in which case the threat is about 32% if they guess wrong which, even though it's only once per match, is actually more damage than DoW can get from an OH conversion.

It also potentially sets up a bit of a mind game for the KB attached to the f24. Not a great one, but better than nothing. This just seems like pretty basic and important tech to me, and I never see it.
 
Landonio

Landonio

n00b
ogrimtitan said:
Question: I know Thin Ice is mostly regarded as a second-class variation at the moment, but is there a reason I see people in that variant using f24 instead of f2~slide when they need an OH mixup? I ask because they're both full-combo punishable, but slide has the following benefits:
-Faster, harder to react and punish.
-Shrinks SZ's hitbox, so some s1 punishes won't reach.
-Requires a fast OH~low block switch from opponent.
-It's possible to have his slide KB loaded, in which case the threat is about 32% if they guess wrong which, even though it's only once per match, is actually more damage than DoW can get from an OH conversion.

It also potentially sets up a bit of a mind game for the KB attached to the f24. Not a great one, but better than nothing. This just seems like pretty basic and important tech to me, and I never see it.
Click to expand...
I agree, but they want that Krushing Blow. Also the 4 follow-up is better for meaties and chip-outs.

Oh, and F24 sets up for a better oki situation than F2>Slide. If you walk forward slightly, and do jump-in 3 or 4, you'll beat a lot of their options. You'll also get a free slide afterwards for a combo.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Lokheit said:
Super secret tech I just found by accident:

After the Slide Brutality, during the victory pose, at any point (can do it after a while) if you press L2 and R2 the axe will disappear making the head fall.
Click to expand...
Yo it works with the f-throw brutal, too! Down + 3 makes ‘em drop off the spikes. We’re on the freakin’ cutting edge of MK11 technology!
 
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C

Con

Noob
Some quick questions from a noob ~

How exactly does the mix work? Can you only mix when you are plus on hit and not on knockdown? I notice sometimes after a knockdown in the corner if I go for a f2>exball in the wakeup, I get d1'ed or thrown by them, is this just bad timing?

Should I be wanting to go for the restands with b32 to continue mixing, or should I be just full comboing them whenever possible? Is this situational?

What string should I generally be punishing with?
 
Sazbak

Sazbak

Mortal
You can mix them when you knock them down and you are not super far away. Practice the timing, you should be able to stuff their normal attacks.(but not invincible wakeup attacks)

Whenever I saw people using Dead of Winter I saw them doing the reset if they have the meter for it.

As for punishing you can use b14 since it has the biggest range (14 frame startup)
You can use b32 since it hits low so they can't low profile it(13 frame startup)(Sub-Zero mirror vs Slide)
You can also do 21 if they are close(Scorpion teleport)(8 frame startup)

These 3 does the same damage.

It depends on range, damage and the amount of opening you have/want.

Edit:
Btw the reason your attack gets stuffed after a knockdown might be because you do your attack to soon and they are still invincible after a knockdown for a while.
Go into practice mode and set the AI to u2 wakeup attack(the one that is not invincible) and try stuffing it with the proper timing.
Notice that if you do your 'meaty' attack too soon it won't hit them and you will get hit.
 
Versa

Versa

Noob
Do you guys feel there is any value in thin ice competitively as of right now?

Slide is clearly better than cold shoulder, but his zoning specials don't seem like anything special.

Maybe for match ups where using slide to react to projectiles or punish stuff from long distance has more value than access to EX freeze?
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Warrior
Versa said:
Do you guys feel there is any value in thin ice competitively as of right now?

Slide is clearly better than cold shoulder, but his zoning specials don't seem like anything special.

Maybe for match ups where using slide to react to projectiles or punish stuff from long distance has more value than access to EX freeze?
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It's funny how a move that costs 1 slot (shoulder) is what tones down a variation because how bad it is compared to the base move it replaces.
 
mhtdtr

mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
Hi guys. I am a little confused with the variations. When enter training i can choose between 2 variations. None of them are thing ice that is the variation i want to play. I can see that i can make a custom variation but i want to play with tournament variations only. How can i do that? Thank you.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
[/QUOTE]
fredchuckdave said:
GO1 (lol) Vs Arturo (Sonya)


Note: GO1 always plays top tier in every game so it's confirmed Sub-Zero is god tier.
Click to expand...
This is the most compelling argument for Sub-Zero’s tier placement on all of TYM rn.

mhtdtr said:
Hi guys. I am a little confused with the variations. When enter training i can choose between 2 variations. None of them are thing ice that is the variation i want to play. I can see that i can make a custom variation but i want to play with tournament variations only. How can i do that? Thank you.
Click to expand...
You have to “equip” the tournament variations via “kustomize” in the main menu. Select your character, select any variation slot, scroll over to the abilities tab and hit square/ X/ 1 to view preset variations. Select the variations with the trophy next to their names, this denotes tournament variations. Exit to save and then (optional) rename your variation to the tournament name to avoid confusion. You have to manually do this for every character.

Pro tip: name the variations opposite each other to confuse opponents.
 
mhtdtr

mhtdtr

Ancestors, give me strength!
Thank you. So i understand that in offline tournaments the someone has to do this in every console? If i play online i imagine that the tournament variations will be the only ones to choose right?
 
Dankster Morgan

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
I dont necessarily think Thin Ice is worse than Dead of Winter, I think they’re both good variations. Slide is really good in this game and I’m getting more mileage out of air axe than I thought I would. I wish Dead of Winter had slide though.

Hopefully when they add more tournament variations we get one with rising ice and the ground spikes, that’d be sick.
 
Braindead

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I come again carrying shitty news from Not Functioning Properly Land.

Keeping in spirit of MKX, if you hit them with a b2 midscreen while they're crouching you can't juggle as you normally do if they were hit standing up.



Frame data calculator gives 40f hit advantage on b2 if you hit them standing up, and 38f if you hit them crouching. G fucking Gs.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Xyero said:
I may be a noob but does anyone know how to deal with really good zoners? I get zoned by Kitana/Kabal or any characters with extremely fast projectiles, tips?
Click to expand...
Amp Iceball & Slide are his best options. Regular iceball is a bit on the slow side.

It’s also easier to slide from crouch by setting the controls to Input Shortcuts on.
 
OutworldKeith

OutworldKeith

Champion
Been running some kasual games with Subz using Deep Freeze + Rising Ice & Arctic Trap + Rising Ice.

I feel like Rising Ice is probably his best special. Having Deep Freeze and Slide is great. 2 counter-zone moves and a great KB on slide.

Arctic Trap is really damn fun lol. I hope they put it in a tournament variation.
 
Endeavor

Endeavor

I'll live a villain, before I die a hero.
Hey guy how are you all feeling win jump in kicks in this game. I try to s2 anti air but it feels too inconsistent, any advice?
 
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