Subzero General Discussion Thread

[RM Ree]

Huh, from what I've heard Kitana and Cage both struggle against Sub and not the other way around

A lot of players think they’re struggling because of the SZ match up, but it’s usually because after MKX everyone forgot overheads exist.

Like, I literally watched someone whiff a throw, get d2 KB’d and say to the stream “fucking Sub-Zero is so broken.”

I’m not saying SZ is struggling in the MU, I’m saying he loses trying to counter poke. If Johnny and Kitana players are struggling, they might not know their advantages. And god knows they’re not about to hit the lab to find them.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

A lot of players think they’re struggling because of the SZ match up, but it’s usually because after MKX everyone forgot overheads exist.

Like, I literally watched someone whiff a throw, get d2 KB’d and say to the stream “fucking Sub-Zero is so broken.”

I’m not saying SZ is struggling in the MU, I’m saying he loses trying to counter poke. If Johnny and Kitana players are struggling, they might not know their advantages. And god knows they’re not about to hit the lab to find them.

Yeaaaah I was using thin ice and this guy was raging about getting mixed. That 14 percent full combo punishable overhead tho

 

[CliffP]

I made the switch to thin ice and I feel more powerful. But I’m dropping wins against certain matchups due to ex slide.

I work so hard to get in and be a threat. So of course I want to end combos with ex slide because you need to stock them to get the KB to be more of a threat right.

...But it resets to ranged neutral, on an oki based character. Why design a move that costs resources but then betrays the strengths of the character.

It’s already punishable on block, so I’m taking a risk to establish the threat. Idk, I just can’t vibe with this move, maybe I need to make better decisions on when to ex. But then it’s tied to the krushing blow so I feel obligated to, otherwise I might as well play DoW if I’m not gonna get those big damage KB slides anyway.

Anybody played both variations a lot and made a firm decision yet?

 

[ogrimtitan]

I made the switch to thin ice and I feel more powerful. But I’m dropping wins against certain matchups due to ex slide.

I work so hard to get in and be a threat. So of course I want to end combos with ex slide because you need to stock them to get the KB to be more of a threat right.

...But it resets to ranged neutral, on an oki based character. Why design a move that costs resources but then betrays the strengths of the character.

It’s already punishable on block, so I’m taking a risk to establish the threat. Idk, I just can’t vibe with this move, maybe I need to make better decisions on when to ex. But then it’s tied to the krushing blow so I feel obligated to, otherwise I might as well play DoW if I’m not gonna get those big damage KB slides anyway.

Anybody played both variations a lot and made a firm decision yet?

I really love Thin Ice and don’t feel much about DoW, but then I quit MKX early because all the 50/50 crap was too much for me. Are you using crossover kick combos whenever you land a freeze outside the corner? That helps. It’s still annoying you can’t crossover in corner, though. I’m always torn about whether it’s worth giving up corner pressure, too, though I will say that I think playing TI as a mixup-focused variation is missing a chunk of its potential.

I do think the variation has a good synergy to it with how it lets you control the screen through active use of your tools. Air axe is a godsend in some matchups. The one buff I think it needs is much better frames on its other two projectiles. Icicles need to be safe at about sweep distance and further, and the shrinking projectile needs a good 10 frames hacked off its startup and needs to still hit mid at max range.

 

[Dankster Morgan]

I made the switch to thin ice and I feel more powerful. But I’m dropping wins against certain matchups due to ex slide.

I work so hard to get in and be a threat. So of course I want to end combos with ex slide because you need to stock them to get the KB to be more of a threat right.

...But it resets to ranged neutral, on an oki based character. Why design a move that costs resources but then betrays the strengths of the character.

It’s already punishable on block, so I’m taking a risk to establish the threat. Idk, I just can’t vibe with this move, maybe I need to make better decisions on when to ex. But then it’s tied to the krushing blow so I feel obligated to, otherwise I might as well play DoW if I’m not gonna get those big damage KB slides anyway.

Anybody played both variations a lot and made a firm decision yet?

Play both variations. They’re both good. And yeah the KB is important to have, is makes his F2 scary again when it’s loaded

 

[CliffP]

I really love Thin Ice and don’t feel much about DoW, but then I quit MKX early because all the 50/50 crap was too much for me. Are you using crossover kick combos whenever you land a freeze outside the corner? That helps. It’s still annoying you can’t crossover in corner, though. I’m always torn about whether it’s worth giving up corner pressure, too, though I will say that I think playing TI as a mixup-focused variation is missing a chunk of its potential.

I do think the variation has a good synergy to it with how it lets you control the screen through active use of your tools. Air axe is a godsend in some matchups. The one buff I think it needs is much better frames on its other two projectiles. Icicles need to be safe at about sweep distance and further, and the shrinking projectile needs a good 10 frames hacked off its startup and needs to still hit mid at max range.

Yeah I’m making damage for sure.

I do like air axe, it’s nice space control, that’s true.

I’d love if the other projectile was better. That’d make the variation work for me.

 

[Braindead]

The first new Subzero tower they put up in a long time with a bunch of new rewards and they only give it a 2-hour time limit and I only see it with 5 minutes left to go

 

[ogrimtitan]

The first new Subzero tower they put up in a long time with a bunch of new rewards and they only give it a 2-hour time limit and I only see it with 5 minutes left to go

Oh no! What were the rewards? If you tell me his maskless mask was in there I'm gonna cry.

 

[Braindead]

Oh no! What were the rewards? If you tell me his maskless mask was in there I'm gonna cry.

The maskless gear wasn't on there for normal difficulty at least. I can't say whether or not it was a brutal difficulty reward.

 

[Lokheit]

The maskless gear wasn't on there for normal difficulty at least. I can't say whether or not it was a brutal difficulty reward.

If you meant the towers featuring the Ice Aura effect rewardint a bunch of SZ gear and brutality, no, there aren't extra cosmetics from brutal difficulty afaik.

 

[Braindead]

If you meant the towers featuring the Ice Aura effect rewardint a bunch of SZ gear and brutality, no, there aren't extra cosmetics from brutal difficulty afaik.

Yeah that one which was up yesterday evening

 

[Lokheit]

Yeah that one which was up yesterday evening

I had already completed it, did it again because I wanted to see if I could get duplicates of my leveled gear (you can't, they're shown as available because of a bug not recognicing leveled gear, but you don't get extra copies, I tried lol), nothing new to squeeze out of it.

 

[ogrimtitan]

PPJ had a really nice run through this tourney exclusively using Thin Ice variation. Recommended watching for sure.

 

[Braindead]

Hello fellow bottom 5 land citizens. How's life treating you on this blessed day?

 

[Sazbak]

I always suspected that Sub is bottom 5.
I mean, it's either that or I suck at this game.
Phew...finally I understand why I lose so much. Thanks SF!

 

[Lokheit]

Very stupid question, but honestly I can't find this anywhere and I don't seem to be able to do it: are there fall techs in this game? I don't mean the 1 bar get up rolls, I mean fall techs like in MKX where you would use HKD attacks for setups so they wouldn't tech roll and screw your setup.

I'm almost finishing the optimal Ground Freeze setups, with the right distance to avoid the Invincible Wakeup, and they're looking dope, but if there is a way to tech roll (the 1 bar rolls get trapped in the unblockable ice) they might go to waste.

The amazing part of these setups is that combo damage looks really low, until you realize that you always add 70 non scaled damage to every combo (and back to the vortex) unless your opponent uses 1 bar for an invincible get up attack that will whiff lol.

 

[Braindead]

Very stupid question, but honestly I can't find this anywhere and I don't seem to be able to do it: are there fall techs in this game? I don't mean the 1 bar get up rolls, I mean fall techs like in MKX where you would use HKD attacks for setups so they wouldn't tech roll and screw your setup.

I'm almost finishing the optimal Ground Freeze setups, with the right distance to avoid the Invincible Wakeup, and they're looking dope, but if there is a way to tech roll (the 1 bar rolls get trapped in the unblockable ice) they might go to waste.

The amazing part of these setups is that combo damage looks really low, until you realize that you always add 70 non scaled damage to every combo (and back to the vortex) unless your opponent uses 1 bar for an invincible get up attack that will whiff lol.

There aren't tech rolls like previous games anymore. All knockdowns are the same now. It's just a matter of hit advantage.

 

[Lokheit]

There aren't tech rolls like previous games anymore. All knockdowns are the same now. It's just a matter of hit advantage.

Nice! I was almost sure but wanted to confirm. Then Ground Ice is an awesome move and I can't wait for a variation with Rising Ice and Ground Ice to be made tournament legal. (Or simply making kustom variation legal for that matter).

 

[LastBoom]

Rising Ice and Ground Ice is the best custom variaton

 

[Lokheit]

Rising Ice and Ground Ice is the best custom variaton

Yeah, for the most part I've been playing a more balanced kustom of Rising Ice, Air Axe and Kreeping Ice, but despite losing some utility (and a lot of 300 damage badges as the final 70 damage aren't counted for combos), playing with Ground Ice setups is a blast.

Right now my main kustoms are that, the balanced one (though I'm still very iffy on Kreeping Ice), and an anti-zoning one with Deep Freeze and Air Axe (Slide goes under highs, Air Axe to control air time and punish low projectiles, Ex Iceball to eat projectiles).

 

[LastBoom]

Yeah, for the most part I've been playing a more balanced kustom of Rising Ice, Air Axe and Kreeping Ice, but despite losing some utility (and a lot of 300 damage badges as the final 70 damage aren't counted for combos), playing with Ground Ice setups is a blast.

Right now my main kustoms are that, the balanced one (though I'm still very iffy on Kreeping Ice), and an anti-zoning one with Deep Freeze and Air Axe (Slide goes under highs, Air Axe to control air time and punish low projectiles, Ex Iceball to eat projectiles).

now i am trying Artic trap with Kreeping Ice...
Man i love custom variation and i have to give a try to your idea ( Deep Freeze / Air Axe )

 

[fredchuckdave]

GO1 Vs Lord Kuz (Jade)

 

[Cobainevermind87]

Does anyone else not get the amplified slide brutality to come out sometimes? I mean, I wait until he switches sides and mash forward (just in case it's possible to start inputting them too early), but it only comes out maybe 6 out of 10 times. I dunno if I'm inputting the forwards too early or too late or what, it's weird.

 

[Braindead]

Does anyone else not get the amplified slide brutality to come out sometimes? I mean, I wait until he switches sides and mash forward (just in case it's possible to start inputting them too early), but it only comes out maybe 6 out of 10 times. I dunno if I'm inputting the forwards too early or too late or what, it's weird.

I just start mashing the reverse side as soon as I press amplify. Have zero problem landing it like that.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

I just start mashing the reverse side as soon as I press amplify. Have zero problem landing it like that.

Ahh thanks! Totally didn't know you could do it that early.