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Subzero General Discussion Thread

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Couldn't watch the stream, but I'm hearing he didn't get Rising Ice, he fit Creeping Ice instead? Can anyone confirm?

RIP any potential fun if that's true... At least if we ever get 4th variations the only combination left is my favorite lol.
Creeping Ice and Artic Trap.
 

mrapchem

Apprentice
Nothing positive to compensate the nerfs? At least faster start up? Arctic trap wasn't even on the "good moves" list before. Not even having Rising Ice for setups that are worth anything sucks too.
We don't know if Trap was buffed at all, but we do know that it goes away on throw and has way less active frames. But you're right - it really does need to be paired with Rising Ice for its true potential to shine. NRS makes worse variations than we do.
 

thebus99

Noob
We don't know if Trap was buffed at all, but we do know that it goes away on throw and has way less active frames. But you're right - it really does need to be paired with Rising Ice for its true potential to shine. NRS makes worse variations than we do.
Thin Ice and DoW will still be better. This will be just a third variation and not usable
 

Dante

Mortal
Nah this is definitely the better variation. Was hoping for rising ice but creeping ice helps more in neutral
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Avalanche variation kinda sucks. They pretty much gutted Arctic Trap & Creeping Ice with this patch.

Arctic Trap lost active frames & disappears when you throw.

Creeping Ice no loger grants a juggle in the corner and is now -10 on block.

There's no reason to play this variation over the other 2.
 
I thought it was just me. I was watching Tom Brady run a bootleg Avalanche this morning i.e. pre patch. He could get juggles from Creeping Ice in the corner. I couldn't after checking the patch.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Avalanche variation kinda sucks. They pretty much gutted Arctic Trap & Creeping Ice with this patch.

Arctic Trap lost active frames & disappears when you throw.

Creeping Ice no loger grants a juggle in the corner and is now -10 on block.

There's no reason to play this variation over the other 2.
They nerfed the recovery frames of creeping ice so that it can no longer combo. Fucking lol

And arctic trap also disappears in a bunch of other situations like: blocking anything, getting hit, throwing, etc

RIP defensive Sub Zero. Never allowed to live.
 

Sazbak

Mortal
They nerfed the recovery frames of creeping ice so that it can no longer combo. Fucking lol

And arctic trap also disappears in a bunch of other situations like: blocking anything, getting hit, throwing, etc

RIP defensive Sub Zero. Never allowed to live.
I heard that blocking doesnt make it disappear despite what the patch notes say.
 

Samsara

Resident Cynic
Lasts all of three fucking seconds

6 years of start up

Goes away if you fucking touch anything.

Literally scuffed ice clone bargain bin edition. I hope to god someone smarter than me figures something out and makes me look like a clown because I'm not smiling rn
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Lasts all of three fucking seconds

6 years of start up

Goes away if you fucking touch anything.

Literally scuffed ice clone bargain bin edition. I hope to god someone smarter than me figures something out and makes me look like a clown because I'm not smiling rn
I doubt anything will be found. It was just ok pre-patch, now its bunz.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Lasts all of three fucking seconds

6 years of start up

Goes away if you fucking touch anything.

Literally scuffed ice clone bargain bin edition. I hope to god someone smarter than me figures something out and makes me look like a clown because I'm not smiling rn


His s2 is plus 22 on hit so he gets a free 50/50 into Ice trap or a throw into ice trap.
He can launch from both Overhead and Low starters in the corner with Creeping Ice Amped.
Interactables don't make the ice trap go away like throws do so experiment with that since it has rest and and tons of setup potential.
Both his mixups are safe except you can FB the amped but most characters can't punish his unamped version from F2xxDF4 -10 with pushback.

THis all opens up several pressure games and mixups in the corner having cramping ice launch. Before he had to do B32 then eat shit cuz B321 only did like 4% on last hit and no one worried about it but now they have to guess between B32xxDF4/DF4Amped and this can be used off all of his strings. Note B32xxDF4 has a gap after B32xx(Gap)DF4 When used on block but they combo on hit.

There is definitely more but we need to lab it up
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Unless it changed since last night, I'm gonna need proof of Creeping Ice launching in the corner. Cause last night I tried it multiple times and Sub doesn't recover fast enough to hit them with anything before they fall.

The patch added recovery frames to creeping ice.
 

Sazbak

Mortal

His s2 is plus 22 on hit so he gets a free 50/50 into Ice trap or a throw into ice trap.
He can launch from both Overhead and Low starters in the corner with Creeping Ice Amped.
Interactables don't make the ice trap go away like throws do so experiment with that since it has rest and and tons of setup potential.
Both his mixups are safe except you can FB the amped but most characters can't punish his unamped version from F2xxDF4 -10 with pushback.

THis all opens up several pressure games and mixups in the corner having cramping ice launch. Before he had to do B32 then eat shit cuz B321 only did like 4% on last hit and no one worried about it but now they have to guess between B32xxDF4/DF4Amped and this can be used off all of his strings. Note B32xxDF4 has a gap after B32xx(Gap)DF4 When used on block but they combo on hit.

There is definitely more but we need to lab it up
Ok but let's stay realistic. This reset is a nice risky niche tool that you can sometimes try but it's not a solid and reliable one.
I mean you only do 82 damage instead of 280 in order to relaunch the opponent into another combo. You take huge risk so you can potentially increase your combo damage. If the opponent defends properly you just gave up fuckton of damage. This might be good if you want to mount a desperate comeback or stop your combo to not let the opponent use Fatal Blow and try to finish him with the 2nd combo. But other than that I definitely don't wan to risk giving up about 200 damage.

Creeping Ice doesn't launch anymore in the corner.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion

His s2 is plus 22 on hit so he gets a free 50/50 into Ice trap or a throw into ice trap.
He can launch from both Overhead and Low starters in the corner with Creeping Ice Amped.
Interactables don't make the ice trap go away like throws do so experiment with that since it has rest and and tons of setup potential.
Both his mixups are safe except you can FB the amped but most characters can't punish his unamped version from F2xxDF4 -10 with pushback.

THis all opens up several pressure games and mixups in the corner having cramping ice launch. Before he had to do B32 then eat shit cuz B321 only did like 4% on last hit and no one worried about it but now they have to guess between B32xxDF4/DF4Amped and this can be used off all of his strings. Note B32xxDF4 has a gap after B32xx(Gap)DF4 When used on block but they combo on hit.

There is definitely more but we need to lab it up
That setup is decent, but its not enough to pick Avalanche over Thin Ice, or DoW.

You can't combo from Creeping Ice in the corner anymore BTW.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Unless it changed since last night, I'm gonna need proof of Creeping Ice launching in the corner. Cause last night I tried it multiple times and Sub doesn't recover fast enough to hit them with anything before they fall.

The patch added recovery frames to creeping ice.
It's not possible. I'm playing rn.
 

OutworldKeith

Champion
Ok but let's stay realistic. This reset is a nice risky niche tool that you can sometimes try but it's not a solid and reliable one.
I mean you only do 82 damage instead of 280 in order to relaunch the opponent into another combo. You take huge risk so you can potentially increase your combo damage. If the opponent defends properly you just gave up fuckton of damage. This might be good if you want to mount a desperate comeback or stop your combo to not let the opponent use Fatal Blow and try to finish him with the 2nd combo. But other than that I definitely don't wan to risk giving up about 200 damage.

Creeping Ice doesn't launch anymore in the corner.
I was gonna say thing, but I didn't wanna be that guy lol
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Ok but let's stay realistic. This reset is a nice risky niche tool that you can sometimes try but it's not a solid and reliable one.
I mean you only do 82 damage instead of 280 in order to relaunch the opponent into another combo. You take huge risk so you can potentially increase your combo damage. If the opponent defends properly you just gave up fuckton of damage. This might be good if you want to mount a desperate comeback or stop your combo to not let the opponent use Fatal Blow and try to finish him with the 2nd combo. But other than that I definitely don't wan to risk giving up about 200 damage.

Creeping Ice doesn't launch anymore in the corner.
I have another version if it I'm gonna upload soon. Easier to do with less strict timing on wavedash.
I found a few ways to make the low hit confirmable.
Ill have to check out the corner game some more. Yeah if they guess wrong its risky but its definitely a good option to cut off short for the setups and you can also throw them into it with s2 setups.

I'm finding creeping ice is at least safe vs most with its pushback. If they really removed launcher from creeping ice that is shit.

I'll try to find some stuff
 

Gamer68

Fujin!
I feel like Avalanche could be better than Thin Ice.

Pretty much the main reason why you would pick Thin Ice over Dead of Winter is because it had Slide. Both Frigid Storm and Death-Cicle Barrage are not super useful moves. That's not to say that they don't have uses -- they do -- it's just that they aren't anything special and they actually remove Sub-Zero's ability to combo from his F2 Overhead like he can in DoW.

Now with Avalanche being a thing, you can have Slide and still have something to cancel into from F2 Overhead by using Creeping Ice. It's not going to lead to a full combo like DoW, but on-hit you can get a stagger and on-block you can hit-confirm into Amplified Creeping Ice pretty easily and it seems to keep you safe for the most part. Arctic Trap feels like a really bad version of Bo' Rai Cho's Crop Duster from MKX because it doesn't have nearly as much potential for set-ups and most characters seem to be able to get out of it easily. Still, it might be useful in certain match-ups just to create an obstacle between you and your opponent.

In my opinion it's kind of a middle ground between DoW and TI:

Dead of Winter = More damage and F2 cancels.

Thin Ice = Slide and more projectiles.

Avalanche = Slide and F2 cancels.

The F2 cancels from DoW and Slide from TI are the most important moves from each of those variations, in my opinion. And honestly, I feel like I would rather have Slide + F2 cancels than Slide + more projectiles. To be fair, I haven't played enough to really know for sure and it's still really early so who knows what tech could be found for this variation -- for it or against it.

Still, I think there's a decent chance it will be better or just as good as Thin Ice.
 

Assassio

Savagery is no match for skill
Avalanche is really growing on me tbh, having the slide krushing blow is such a bonus. I'm a Dead of Winter main but man if you set up the trap right people panic. Especially in the corner.

Gonna keep using it.