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Subzero General Discussion Thread

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lordlosh

Noob
Guys how you learn all the matchups? Going into the Practice and learn characters one by one or by play Online?
I do it the first way.
 
RM Ree

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
lordlosh said:
Guys how you learn all the matchups? Going into the Practice and learn characters one by one or by play Online?
I do it the first way.
Click to expand...
What a process. First I have a look at their tools in the lab as a mirror match. Pokes, punishes, jailing pokes into highs, fastest mid, staggers, mix-ups, + frames, throw oki, launchers, wake-ups, KBs, specials, and anything unsafe. I take mental note of things that impact SZ (male/ female hurtbox, zoning losing to slide vs deep freeze, overall character archetype).

Then I switch from the mirror to explore the SZ match-up and test the above again. Revisit what I noted, see if anything strange manifests and explore it to find anything exploitable.

I find strings/ common sequences that have any issues like gaps or whiffs, then check the size of said issues (neutral ducks, frame traps, flawless blocks, poke outs, jump outs, trades). Again, if anything strange happens, I explore it.

Then I practice punishes from whatever I’ve found so far, from conventional unsafe strings to d2 trades and anything in between.

I’ll repeat some of the steps as I get more familiar with the match ups. A lot of times, the process just flows organically. One thing leads to another and you just happen upon something that significantly changes the match-up.

Or I’ll just ask Boon to nerf ‘em. That’s a lot easier tbh.
 
Parasurama

Parasurama

Dragon
We did not need Dimitri Vega, we need Bi Han as a premiere skin. My first character in MK1 the original SZ. Noob is ok but does not seem like Bi Han enough.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Well guys, if tomorrow they confirm Rising Ice in the new variation I have the full optimized combi list ready, including a 540 damage, KB but no FB, corner combo.

If they make the perfect variation (Rising Ice + Ground Ice) I got the full optimal vortex setups guide ready for you... They will probably chicken out and put arctic trap instead, but I can hope.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Noob
Lokheit said:
Well guys, if tomorrow they confirm Rising Ice in the new variation I have the full optimized combi list ready, including a 540 damage, KB but no FB, corner combo.

If they make the perfect variation (Rising Ice + Ground Ice) I got the full optimal vortex setups guide ready for you... They will probably chicken out and put arctic trap instead, but I can hope.
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Rising Ice + Arctic Trap = A Damn Good Sub-Zero variation. It's a non-cheesy Grandmaster Sub-Zero, where he has to earn the right to put up a klone.

Then again, any other special move + Rising Ice > DOW and Thin Ice
 
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Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
mrapchem said:
Rising Ice + Arctic Trap = A Damn Good Sub-Zero variation. It's a non-cheesy Grandmaster Sub-Zero, where he has to earn the right to put up a klone.

Then again, any other special move + Rising Ice > DOW and Thin Ice
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Yeah, basically Rising Ice is what makes Sub-Zero a fun character to use. My ideal non cheesy variation would include Air Axe too, but there isn't a third 1 slot move that isn't complete crap.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Noob
Lokheit said:
Yeah, basically Rising Ice is what makes Sub-Zero a fun character to use. My ideal non cheesy variation would include Air Axe too, but there isn't a third 1 slot move that isn't complete crap.
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You're so right about Rising Ice, it's a damn shame! Basically, I made 2 primary variations of Sub-Zero:

Frost Killer: Rising Ice, Air Axe & Death Circle Barrage
Look At Dat Knee: Rising Ice, Arctic Trap

Between those two, I feel comfy fighting the entire cast, even against Liu Kang, Geras and Jax.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Couldn't watch the stream, but I'm hearing he didn't get Rising Ice, he fit Creeping Ice instead? Can anyone confirm?

RIP any potential fun if that's true... At least if we ever get 4th variations the only combination left is my favorite lol.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Noob
Lokheit said:
Couldn't watch the stream, but I'm hearing he didn't get Rising Ice, he fit Creeping Ice instead? Can anyone confirm?

RIP any potential fun if that's true... At least if we ever get 4th variations the only combination left is my favorite lol.
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This is indeed true. Sub-Zero got a faster Kreeping Ice and a gimped Arctic Trap.

I'm actually quite upset about it, honestly. The trap doesn't last for half the time that it used to and you can no longer throw an opponent into it for a combo, as it will disappear instantly. It's like NRS takes away the possibilities of fun that could be had by axing their own good ideas.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Noob
Panque said:
That might quite possibly be a coincidence that it disappeared just as the throw connected, let's see how it turns out.
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It's not coincidental. Currently, the trap lasts for around 4 to 5 seconds once activated. In the stream, the trap was activated and then a second later, it vanished right at the start of the backwards throw.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
Dante said:
What then? Doesn't matter now but yeah, b321 kd is insane to pass for 2-3% more
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J3, 4xxExRisingIce, J2 (from the rising ice elevation)2, 2, 21Slide (or 124 KB) is easier and more damaging.

With Slide KB you get 540 damage from naked J3
 
Samsara

Samsara

Resident Cynic
So they changed trap? Is it any good to make me install the game again?

Also someone else needs to take over combo thread because I will likely be dropping the game if the Sindel release goes sour.
 
mrapchem

mrapchem

Noob
Samsara said:
So they changed trap? Is it any good to make me install the game again?

Also someone else needs to take over combo thread because I will likely be dropping the game if the Sindel release goes sour.
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Yes, they changed trap, but for the worse, unfortunately. It doesn't last as long and goes away on throw(and possibly on any hit). It's much better in its current form as a pretty damn good move.
 
Lokheit

Lokheit

Noob
mrapchem said:
Yes, they changed trap, but for the worse, unfortunately. It doesn't last as long and goes away on throw(and possibly on any hit). It's much better in its current form as a pretty damn good move.
Click to expand...
Nothing positive to compensate the nerfs? At least faster start up? Arctic trap wasn't even on the "good moves" list before. Not even having Rising Ice for setups that are worth anything sucks too.
 
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