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Subzero General Discussion Thread

Elias6999

Mournful Master
yeah this shit is crazy too lol i cant believe people say sub is broke lmao its a joke. the only way to beat all those options is to back dash and punish with b3. which is a HARD read. because if they jump then u get full combo punished
Am I going crazy or is the video okay? Sub’s attack is about to hit on the 9th frame, Baraka interrupts him on the 7th, that’s whats supposed to happen
 

thebus99

Noob
Am I going crazy or is the video okay? Sub’s attack is about to hit on the 9th frame, Baraka interrupts him on the 7th, that’s whats supposed to happen
thats not the point its to show you have unlimited options against him on a plus 4 lmao u never need to respect it ever.
 

Elias6999

Mournful Master
thats not the point its to show you have unlimited options against him on a plus 4 lmao u never need to respect it ever.
Not every plus frame needs to be extra pressure. You can grab or poke or dack backwards. Its not like Sub Zero is a pressure character anyway.
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Okay, I need serious help with sub oki game our b3 and f2 have some of the worst active frames and its kinda crazy you cant enforce anyway to hold block on wake up. F2 if you arent frame perfect they can wake up buttons every time. b3s active sucks so much so the timing for short delay, long delay is impossible to ever time consistently especially online. i literally now just on knockdown walk back bc our oki is AWFUL, i play any other character and they cant wake up buttons constantly.
Sub doesn’t really have a great answer for delay WU. You could use d4 as a fast, low commitment poke. On hit it gives good advantage, on block it recoils far enough back to set up a shimmy. It low profiles a lot of wake-up u3s, and recovers fast enough to punish rolls.
 

Gamer68

Kollector main who plays Jacqui
I'm thinking about picking up Sub-Zero. I don't care for doing vortexes and I like having the classic slide, so I'm only interested in playing Thin Ice.

The only thing I can find about Thin Ice (at least by glancing at the forums) are BnB combos and whatnot.

Is there any general gameplan for Thin Ice? Is Frigid Storm and Death-Cicle Barrage even considered to be good moves or are they mostly useless in most MUs?
 

LarSanity

Who hired this guy
yeah this shit is crazy too lol i cant believe people say sub is broke lmao its a joke. the only way to beat all those options is to back dash and punish with b3. which is a HARD read. because if they jump then u get full combo punished
Yea sub and johnny have this same issue +3 +4 +6 dont mean shit if you can just be low profiled
 
I'm thinking about picking up Sub-Zero. I don't care for doing vortexes and I like having the classic slide, so I'm only interested in playing Thin Ice.

The only thing I can find about Thin Ice (at least by glancing at the forums) are BnB combos and whatnot.

Is there any general gameplan for Thin Ice? Is Frigid Storm and Death-Cicle Barrage even considered to be good moves or are they mostly useless in most MUs?
Thin Ice its equally good and better in some situation. Overhead and then Slide works insanely good in online, a lot of people not react to it, and the people that react to it, cant punish you. :D
And if you look at Pro level, almost no one is going for so call imba "vortex" mix. Buffalo is going for OH, but when the opponent is on the ground.
The Slide in Thin Ice is fast, its low and its very hard to react and you will have great time in online with it.
 

Lokheit

Noob
Sub doesn’t really have a great answer for delay WU. You could use d4 as a fast, low commitment poke. On hit it gives good advantage, on block it recoils far enough back to set up a shimmy. It low profiles a lot of wake-up u3s, and recovers fast enough to punish rolls.
Forget about tournament variations. Ground Ice is your answer to delayed wake up lol.
 

0creepy0

Noob
Do you guys know if the new patch addressed Subzero's hitbox on both his WU U3 and D1? Can they still be low profile by D3?
 

CountHyuga

Old man Hyuga.
Hi.
I have played about 100 matches with subby and i use the thin ice variation. I am having a lot of perplexities about him, but I like the character quite a bit. I have a hard time playing neutral vs some characters like Scorpion (not for his teleport but for his strings and for how he can hit between 3 or 4 hundred damage from any touch) or Kung Lao, and I am having a hard time opening people up, unless I hit them and start mixing them up. The things I loathe about him more are his hideous fatal blow and his low damage. His optimal combos are hard to do online and even when I hit them I don't even reach 300. The point of this rant is that i desire to be proven wrong about all this, but even watching pro doesn't help me understand if it's me or Subby's faul. I posted a gameplay vid in the match thread so anyone willing to school me can get an idea of my playstyle.
Thanks in advance.
 
As i said it many times Sub Zero combos are hard to excute, as well as hard to convert a hit to a combo, if you are not 12381828128% sure you will hit him to go for a Ice Ball. My main problem is, when someone pressure its just game over. If someone that is good pressure you high, you cant do a s*.

Some of his string on paper maybe good, but in reality suck hard.
His B+1 can be low-profilied and there is a gap and you will eat punish. His B+3 has good start up for low, but his range sucks. His 1,2 is very bad, the range is so fu* small, and you always going to whiff and eat punish. His 2,1 is almost non-useable, has a gap and you going to eat it, at Pro level almost no one use 1,2 and 2,1.
if you see Pros replay, even they are missing combos quite often and they are not even going for the optimal ones, cross-up ones, because the chance to drop it and eat a big punish is very high.
Most Pro at high level play him as high risk character and that is a kinda 50/50 situation for him. And at really high level, as we see to date Sub Zero players not have even decent result at tournaments.
He is not even top 10 character.
But i dont have problem with that and still grinding. My only problem with him is the range of his 1,2 combo. I would like that to be touched.

P.P. I forget about his FB. Can you tell me on what combo you land his FB Online?
Cause on offline i FB on any combo and then J2, back kick, FB.
But i can`t do that online. Dare to say some decent combo you can convert his FB and that is consistent to do it?
 

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
Premium Supporter
Hi.
I have played about 100 matches with subby and i use the thin ice variation. I am having a lot of perplexities about him, but I like the character quite a bit. I have a hard time playing neutral vs some characters like Scorpion (not for his teleport but for his strings and for how he can hit between 3 or 4 hundred damage from any touch) or Kung Lao, and I am having a hard time opening people up, unless I hit them and start mixing them up. The things I loathe about him more are his hideous fatal blow and his low damage. His optimal combos are hard to do online and even when I hit them I don't even reach 300. The point of this rant is that i desire to be proven wrong about all this, but even watching pro doesn't help me understand if it's me or Subby's faul. I posted a gameplay vid in the match thread so anyone willing to school me can get an idea of my playstyle.
Thanks in advance.
As far as damage is concerned, there are 2 common breaking points you should be looking for; 25 and 33%. If your character can deal at least 25% per combo, you only have to touch an opponent 4 times to win (and only 3 times with 33%). It doesn’t matter if your combos are dealing exactly 25% or 32%, you’re still going to have to hit an opponent 4 times to win. Optimal combos are fun, but not a necessity. Aim to find consistent combos that deal 25% and don’t worry about the in between.

As for fatal blow, Sub-Zero’s functions as a high damage combo ender. It lacks utility in the neutral or as a punish, but it makes up for it in damage scaling. Practice using it in combos primarily, and it won’t disappoint (try b32 xx ice ball, ji2, s4 xx FB for an unbreakable ~40%).

I watched your sets vs Geras and vs the other Sub-Zero. Mostly, I saw some unfamiliarity with ice ball conversions (ice ball, jik/ jip, b143 xx slide), maybe practice jik combos since you connect a lot of those (jik, f-dash, b143 xx slide), and practice punishing unsafe moves with jabs or reversal slides.

Don’t be afraid to walk back and forth in neutral, most characters can’t reach out and hit you faster than you can react and block. At the same time, observe your opponent and don’t let them do the same. Thin Ice is one of the few variations that CAN punish free neutral movement using slide.