What's new

Street Fighter V General Discussion

@MylesWright_

I'll be back 3ing
I meant to type more to that question but got distracted and lost my train of thought. Something about how "Capcom always making SF a certain way" but forget it.

What's all the cake chun is eating and why do you find Juri uninspired?
The cake was a very good metaphor for Chun-Li stealing all the tools and Juri not getting any of it.

It might be because I've used F.A.N.G and Ibuki that very unique characters but I find Juris gameplay barring stores very stale and almost identical to Chun-Li, Cammy and Karins. You are literally pressuring, poking and buffering off all the same buttons at similar ranges that they might as well be variations of the same character
 
Another day where people debate Miles for pages * facepalm*



This was just an unfortunate situation. The system counts disconnects so the system punished him. If some you knows networking please feel free to correct me but i dont think you can tell disconnected first so this kinds problem will happen.
Wait, you could possibly get banned for being rq'ed on a number of times?

Got a nice clip for the Chris T fans:
https://twitter.com/Gegz/status/762322545534177280?ref_src=twsrc^tfw
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
The cake was a very good metaphor for Chun-Li stealing all the tools and Juri not getting any of it.

It might be because I've used F.A.N.G and Ibuki that very unique characters but I find Juris gameplay barring stores very stale and almost identical to Chun-Li, Cammy and Karins. You are literally pressuring, poking and buffering off all the same buttons at similar ranges that they might as well be variations of the same character
Can Chun do the fireball crossup setups that Juri can? I don't know if anyone got the anti fireball game Juri has. Doesn't Juri have some target combo that launches that she can use to reset?

I only dabbled in Cammy so I can't comment on how Juri gameplan works but I don't see those 3 original characters playing alike.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
Plus on block armor = being able to go throw any attack/throw as long as there isn't a quick second second hit. Then being able pressure with the risk of your opponent using an armor move. It's more like having SRK FADC. Unless the startup is really long they're all used with the same general purpose.

Plus on block crush counters don't have armor nor are invincible so they can't be used to blow through you're opponents offense, they actually have differing properties and different uses.
  • Mika's F+HP is +2 but is used really close.
  • Bison's df+HP (+1) has range and st.HK (+3) has a quick startup but with his slow walkspeed those take proper spacing or a knockdown.
I don't see how those two are the same.
Plus on block armor could almost always be armored through if you made the read in MKX. In SFV, you pretty much have to hold that possible CC and then hold the next mixup. The only way out are invincible moves which typically don't do much more than 5%-10%. Considering the reward for a CC compared to a DP, Id say it's similar. In MKX, the reward for armoring through their armor was at least comparable damage.
 
Can Chun do the fireball crossup setups that Juri can? I don't know if anyone got the anti fireball game Juri has. Doesn't Juri have some target combo that launches that she can use to reset?

I only dabbled in Cammy so I can't comment on how Juri gameplan works but I don't see those 3 original characters playing alike.
dude of course they play the same. They press buttons at certain spaces to deal damage to their opponents who then die. They also press back to block. They're basically the same character, they even rely on the same fundamental concepts. They even all have the same input for throw. Disgusting.
 
Plus on block armor could almost always be armored through if you made the read in MKX. In SFV, you pretty much have to hold that possible CC and then hold the next mixup. The only way out are invincible moves which typically don't do much more than 5%-10%. Considering the reward for a CC compared to a DP, Id say it's similar. In MKX, the reward for armoring through their armor was at least comparable damage.
so block strings are unfair?
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
Plus on block armor could almost always be armored through if you made the read in MKX. In SFV, you pretty much have to hold that possible CC and then hold the next mixup. The only way out are invincible moves which typically don't do much more than 5%-10%. Considering the reward for a CC compared to a DP, Id say it's similar. In MKX, the reward for armoring through their armor was at least comparable damage.
Plus on block CC is only comparable to plus on block strings with no built in mixup in MKX. Except where they are in SFV makes sense. Mika either charges HK or does F+HP which requires some form of spacing, timing, read, or setup. Mika's is nasty because she's got a command grab. Bison on the other hand is doing normal throws to try and bait you pressing buttons. Outside of wakeup, Mika can't really use hers and Bison needs to play neutral and time his df+HP or get close enough to do st.HK. Which is hard because he is a slow charge character. Nothing like just being able to do armor whenever there is a gap. None of their crush counters actually put fear into you whenever you're just spacing trying to play like almost all the armor does in MKX.

I talked about bison and Mika because those are the two characters I know. I'm aware there are more plus on block CCs.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
so block strings are unfair?
No, but it shouldn't be your turn anymore after you just fished for a high damage combo.

Using armor to read armor in mkx... I've never heard of anyone doing that high level
You don't have to anymore because they nerfed all armored launchers to be at least negative on block.

Plus on block CC is only comparable to plus on block strings with no built in mixup in MKX. Except where they are in SFV makes sense. Mika either charges HK or does F+HP which requires some form of spacing, timing, read, or setup. Mika's is nasty because she's got a command grab. Bison on the other hand is doing normal throws to try and bait you pressing buttons. Outside of wakeup, Mika can't really use hers and Bison needs to play neutral and time his df+HP or get close enough to do st.HK. Which is hard because he is a slow charge character. Nothing like just being able to do armor whenever there is a gap. None of their crush counters actually put fear into you whenever you're just spacing trying to play like almost all the armor does in MKX.

I talked about bison and Mika because those are the two characters I know. I'm aware there are more plus on block CCs.
You act as if people never get knocked down in this game. Standard tactic is knockdown > Meaty/throw/shimmy. If you have a + on block CC, Your meaty becomes an avenue towards more pressure/mixups.

So for the defender:

block ties shimmy, loses to throw and meaty.
throw ties throw, loses to meaty and shimmy.
wakeup dp beats meaty and throw, loses to shimmy. (wakeup dp is not even an option for many characters without meter)

I just think it's kind of dumb to have that kind of reward be + on block, since CC typically lead to lots of damage. I guess it's ok for high CC's to be +, but not the ones that hit mid.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
No, but it shouldn't be your turn anymore after you just fished for a high damage combo.



You don't have to anymore because they nerfed all armored launchers to be at least negative on block.



You act as if people never get knocked down in this game. Standard tactic is knockdown > Meaty/throw/shimmy. If you have a + on block CC, Your meaty becomes an avenue towards more pressure/mixups.

So for the defender:

block ties shimmy, loses to throw and meaty.
throw ties throw, loses to meaty and shimmy.
wakeup dp beats meaty and throw, loses to shimmy. (wakeup dp is not even an option for many characters without meter)

I just think it's kind of dumb to have that kind of reward be + on block, since CC typically lead to lots of damage. I guess it's ok for high CC's to be +, but not the ones that hit mid.
No I was comparing them to MKX armor like you were. If were talking about knockdown I still think they're fine. The only one that's even slightly questionable to me is Chun's b+HP and that one does that spiral launch knockdown so she doesn't get a full combo like the rest. Everyone else is some kind of grappler so I don't mind them getting a bit of a extra mixup on knockdown or Bison. Bison isn't some mixup machine. Besides those match ups you take the same old mixup you just described.
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
Valle is going in on Chun cry babies

No, but it shouldn't be your turn anymore after you just fished for a high damage combo.



You don't have to anymore because they nerfed all armored launchers to be at least negative on block.



You act as if people never get knocked down in this game. Standard tactic is knockdown > Meaty/throw/shimmy. If you have a + on block CC, Your meaty becomes an avenue towards more pressure/mixups.

So for the defender:

block ties shimmy, loses to throw and meaty.
throw ties throw, loses to meaty and shimmy.
wakeup dp beats meaty and throw, loses to shimmy. (wakeup dp is not even an option for many characters without meter)

I just think it's kind of dumb to have that kind of reward be + on block, since CC typically lead to lots of damage. I guess it's ok for high CC's to be +, but not the ones that hit mid.
How many knockdowns give you enough frames to cover both techs with guaranteed meaty plus on block CCs?
 
No, but it shouldn't be your turn anymore after you just fished for a high damage combo.



You don't have to anymore because they nerfed all armored launchers to be at least negative on block.



You act as if people never get knocked down in this game. Standard tactic is knockdown > Meaty/throw/shimmy. If you have a + on block CC, Your meaty becomes an avenue towards more pressure/mixups.

So for the defender:

block ties shimmy, loses to throw and meaty.
throw ties throw, loses to meaty and shimmy.
wakeup dp beats meaty and throw, loses to shimmy. (wakeup dp is not even an option for many characters without meter)

I just think it's kind of dumb to have that kind of reward be + on block, since CC typically lead to lots of damage. I guess it's ok for high CC's to be +, but not the ones that hit mid.
Mikas plus on block ccs don't lead to damage though, and bisons is hard to pull off due to his lack of mobility(not to mention all he can do after its blocked is like cr mp into his safe ball thingy).
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
No I was comparing them to MKX armor like you were. If were talking about knockdown I still think they're fine. The only one that's even slightly questionable to me is Chun's b+HP and that one does that spiral launch knockdown so she doesn't get a full combo like the rest. Everyone else is some kind of grappler so I don't mind them getting a bit of a extra mixup on knockdown or Bison. Bison isn't some mixup machine. Besides those match ups you take the same old mixup you just described.
I compared it to MKX + on block armor in the sense that you block a high damage launcher, then you have to block another mixup. People complained about that alot.

Chun with vtrigger gets pretty good damage off the b.HP, and it's a free hit confirm into CA if you have the meter to spend.

How many knockdowns give you enough frames to cover both techs with guaranteed meaty plus on block CCs?
It's not just knockdowns, it's resets too, which are probably just as common. Basically everything that happens in this game is after a reset or knockdown. That's when the real damage/guessing starts happening. You guys are basically playing dumb at this point to defend this stuff. I'm not even salty or anything, I just know it's BS when a few select characters get special treatment.
 
I compared it to MKX + on block armor in the sense that you block a high damage launcher, then you have to block another mixup. People complained about that alot.

Chun with vtrigger gets pretty good damage off the b.HP, and it's a free hit confirm into CA if you have the meter to spend.



It's not just knockdowns, it's resets too, which are probably just as common. Basically everything that happens in this game is after a reset or knockdown. That's when the real damage/guessing starts happening. You guys are basically playing dumb at this point to defend this stuff. I'm not even salty or anything, I just know it's BS when a few select characters get special treatment.
characters have different tools. Bisons plus on block cc doesn't mean every character needs one since they all have stuff he doesn't, it's called game balance not game uniformity.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
characters have different tools. Bisons plus on block cc doesn't mean every character needs one since they all have stuff he doesn't, it's called game balance not game uniformity.
Yeah, I get that. I don't want every character to have the same frame data, but when it comes to CC's, I just think that they should either be neutral or negative on block, or plus and a high. I would draw the line because of the high reward of CC's. Just seems logical. And plus on block divekicks would also not exist if it was up to me. I think the game would be better that way. It is what it is but I wish it wasn't.
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
I compared it to MKX + on block armor in the sense that you block a high damage launcher, then you have to block another mixup. People complained about that alot.

Chun with vtrigger gets pretty good damage off the b.HP, and it's a free hit confirm into CA if you have the meter to spend.



It's not just knockdowns, it's resets too, which are probably just as common. Basically everything that happens in this game is after a reset or knockdown. That's when the real damage/guessing starts happening. You guys are basically playing dumb at this point to defend this stuff. I'm not even salty or anything, I just know it's BS when a few select characters get special treatment.
People weren't complaining that something was plus. It was the fact that you can move forward while basically being invulnerable and be plus. Some of those armor moves even started a combo. That's nothing like having a plus on block CC in SF.

I forgot about looking at Chun's V-trigger. But even then that's activating V-trigger and she's be to be close so another CC that's most likely used on reset/wake up situations.

I'm not playing dumb. I said I don't mind Grapplers and Bison getting some extra help in the offense department. I said I find the fact that Chun has one to at least be questionable. I don't know the character in depth like that to talk about taking away and giving tools. But I can see why who has what and see the thought the behind giving certain characters certain tools. There's a reason why Chun's does the odd knockdown and Mika and Bison get launching/grounded combo starters.

It's not some special treatment. It's what happens when you add variety to the roster. Mika doesn't get a projectile. Mika doesn't even have a reversal. Mika can't chip kill. Mika's v-skill is barely usable. Mika has two plus on block CCs. One with no range that helps her mixups after struggling to get in and the other has to be charged and is easily stuffed.

If you take away the plus on block CCs, do those characters need to be compensated for the cut in offense? Then how so?

Who has a plus on block divekick?

@Aramonde I'd be done in a hour..
@FL Rushdown my bad I had to bounce real quick. Do you leave the lobby open to anyone to join?
 

B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
I compared it to MKX + on block armor in the sense that you block a high damage launcher, then you have to block another mixup. People complained about that alot.

Chun with vtrigger gets pretty good damage off the b.HP, and it's a free hit confirm into CA if you have the meter to spend.



It's not just knockdowns, it's resets too, which are probably just as common. Basically everything that happens in this game is after a reset or knockdown. That's when the real damage/guessing starts happening. You guys are basically playing dumb at this point to defend this stuff. I'm not even salty or anything, I just know it's BS when a few select characters get special treatment.
Idk of any kds that guarantee meaty ccs that cover both techs or off resets that don't involve being conditioned. Unless we're talking off St. Jab antiairs which I already hate so. The paths to pressure with these buttons options is a risk and there options for every character afterwards > V reversal.

I don't even think it's a big deal in practice since the guaranteed followups if you block them are pretty limited plus the setup it takes to get you in that situation.
 

Rip Torn

ALL I HAVE IS THE GREEN.
People weren't complaining that something was plus. It was the fact that you can move forward while basically being invulnerable and be plus. Some of those armor moves even started a combo. That's nothing like having a plus on block CC in SF.

If you take away the plus on block CCs, do those characters need to be compensated for the cut in offense? Then how so?

Who has a plus on block divekick?

@Aramonde I'd be done in a hour..
@FL Rushdown my bad I had to bounce real quick. Do you leave the lobby open to anyone to join?
I was talking about + on block armored launchers, like crystaline tremor. It was definitely the + frames that made people salty.

I don't think Mika and Chun would need any compensation if they made those CC's between 0 and -2 on block. Mika can keep her charged one. Bison, I think would be fine without it. He's got plus frames all over the place.

Edit: Plus on block divekicks are Cammy and Ken. Forgot to say that.