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Strategy - Hellfire So, time we had a discussion about Hellfire

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
News Editor
Official ESL Gaming
The "best with xxx character" talk is super annoying and dumb. I have nothing against EU players and have never trashed any of them, but the people who talk about Murko being better are mostly EU guys who watch Ketchup and Mustard's streams and are extremely biased. Murko's an awesome Scorpion, but he is winning ONLINE tournaments where the competition isn't as strong as it is over here in NA. On top of that, the top EU guys (Foxy, Madzin) don't even compete in those cups from what I've seen. He also gets a ton of exposure from K&M streams/videos so it's easy to think he is the best because you see him winning all the time. Scorpion is also one of the few characters that gets away with murder online. If we're going by results, then you can't say any other Scorpion is better because I've placed with the character OFFLINE.

Hopefully that settles this stupid debate and sheds some light on Hellfire.
I would like to get it on record that Mustard nor myself have ever had the intention of stirring any kind of drama pot when it comes to "best X character" discussions. We got it just as Bad when Cossner and I were the main two Sektors in the spotlight, despite being good friends, and the same with Mustard/Scarsunseen. It's a pointless discussion that will be long forgotten when the next game comes out anyway.

The one thing I will say, is that the entire point of us giving up every Sunday evening is to take players that are making the effort to enter the Community Cups, and give them the chance to make as much of a name for themselves as they can with the limited access to offline competition most of them have.

Case in point, Murko. He's always had a very tidy Scorpion with insane conversions. Some would recognise him as a very late entry to Pro League Season 3 and dominating the Challenger Cups alongside his fellow EU Scorpion, JINAMOUNAINAI. He's been entering the community cups and playing well in them, therefore he makes top 4 and his constant placings have made him known among our followers/viewers. Essentially doing the one thing we always wanted the community cups to do, which is bring attention to lesser known players.

It is unfair to straight up dismiss him because he isn't fortunate enough to live in the states and get access to a monthly major with the worlds best offline players. He does what he can with limited access to offline competition. I'm not saying this is your point, but it's tough for a young guy half way across the world to make the next 10K pot bonus major where everyone is present just to get recognition.

Your resume is uncontested. You are clearly a top player and you fit Scorpion like a glove. But let's not just dismiss other players because they're not as fortunate to live in America to get that experience they need to become top level too.

I know this post is somewhat old now and I'm pages behind, but I just saw this post from your Twitter post. Apologies if these have been addressed already.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Premium Supporter
Man !!!!
Intense in here it what?

Let's just chill lol

Like making top 10s viewers love arguing who is better with which character, I'd say let them. We are playing to win( and for fun) not to prove ourselves to stream monsters and shit
 
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ryublaze

Noob
Premium Supporter
I would like to get it on record that Mustard nor myself have ever had the intention of stirring any kind of drama pot when it comes to "best X character" discussions. We got it just as Bad when Cossner and I were the main two Sektors in the spotlight, despite being good friends, and the same with Mustard/Scarsunseen. It's a pointless discussion that will be long forgotten when the next game comes out anyway.

The one thing I will say, is that the entire point of us giving up every Sunday evening is to take players that are making the effort to enter the Community Cups, and give them the chance to make as much of a name for themselves as they can with the limited access to offline competition most of them have.

Case in point, Murko. He's always had a very tidy Scorpion with insane conversions. Some would recognise him as a very late entry to Pro League Season 3 and dominating the Challenger Cups alongside his fellow EU Scorpion, JINAMOUNAINAI. He's been entering the community cups and playing well in them, therefore he makes top 4 and his constant placings have made him known among our followers/viewers. Essentially doing the one thing we always wanted the community cups to do, which is bring attention to lesser known players.

It is unfair to straight up dismiss him because he isn't fortunate enough to live in the states and get access to a monthly major with the worlds best offline players. He does what he can with limited access to offline competition. I'm not saying this is your point, but it's tough for a young guy half way across the world to make the next 10K pot bonus major where everyone is present just to get recognition.

Your resume is uncontested. You are clearly a top player and you fit Scorpion like a glove. But let's not just dismiss other players because they're not as fortunate to live in America to get that experience they need to become top level too.

I know this post is somewhat old now and I'm pages behind, but I just saw this post from your Twitter post. Apologies if these have been addressed already.
Agreed, you guys do a fantastic job at bringing the hype to unknown players. It's great that EU has you guys because you guys do nothing but support the community and its players. I really didn't mean for my post to sound dismissive of EU players. I have no doubt that if your players did have more opportunities to travel to NA that you all would do well, which you've already proven yourself at EVO and Foxy at many NA tournaments. My post was targeted more at the people who were writing me off for the past few months before and even after I've placed with the character, and was meant to spark some good discussion on TYM. It's all in good fun. :)
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
News Editor
Official ESL Gaming
Agreed, you guys do a fantastic job at bringing the hype to unknown players. It's great that EU has you guys because you guys do nothing but support the community and its players. I really didn't mean for my post to sound dismissive of EU players. I have no doubt that if your players did have more opportunities to travel to NA that you all would do well, which you've already proven yourself at EVO and Foxy at many NA tournaments. My post was targeted more at the people who were writing me off for the past few months before and even after I've placed with the character, and was meant to spark some good discussion on TYM. It's all in good fun. :)
And I agree that writing you off in any degree is foolish.

You have proven yourself over and over and you just got top 8 at a major event with Scorpion. Nobody can take away from that.

I've always hated "the best with x or y character" discussion because I feel it takes away from the most important thing, which is winning the tournament and getting dat $$$.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"I'm a zoner, with ma boner"
Premium Supporter
Man !!!!
Intense in here it what?

Let's just chill lol

Like making top 10s viewers love arguing who is better with which character, I'd say let them. We are playing to win( and for fun) not to prove ourselves to stream monsters and shit

Reminds me of my elementary school days where we'd argue whos got longer dick.
Shura wanted to talk about Scorpions tools and then at some point we and end (thanks to some ....members) else where.
None the less I think discussion about Scorpion should remain on the table at least for the informative purposes.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I havent read from page 5-ish onward, but just adding my .02 on Hellfire's execution..

It really isnt that bad. He may have some fringe scenario stuff that's super difficult, but I have *extremely* bad execution, like nerve damage in my hands bad, and I can do most of the FBRC links I see used in actual matches maybe 4/10 times after exactly two practice sessions lasting 20m each. If I was grinding this character out Id imagine, even with my HORRIBLE execution, I'd start seeing stable results pretty quickly..

So I cant imagine that players who dont have shattered, racoon eaten (literally), broken-glass-in-their-joints hands would find that much trouble with this.
 

Rolling_Toaster

Praise be to Lord Brady
this argument reminds of Godzin VS Lord Brady. kinda obvious tom is the best but people think hes shit for some reason Best thing I do in the corner I use outlaw and when That idiot clone is out there and sub is gonna give the b2 I do ex tarkatan stab and then caltrops die u Idiot :cool:
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
So, which is the stronger variation.. Ninj or HF?
If we're going by winning to losing matchup ratio it might actually be Ninjutsu in this patch.

But of course nobody wants to actually go by that system because it would expose how full of shit people are about the placements of several other variations lol.
 

lordspinalkillerinstinct

He is not my main even though i have that name
I think every one should play MK XL on xbox one or PC just because there is no region lock on it.

want to really compete overseas with out traveling play on those 2 consoles and hope they remove region lock on Injustice 2 on ps4.
When the beta for mkx was live there was no region lock at all on ps4 so its definitly possible.
 
I cant imagine Scorpion having an double armor on teleport, plus better neutral and better 50/50. This would be worse then Vanilla Kano CT. That would probably place him much higher then TOP 5 I guess.
Is his armor really that bad? It's completely serviceable to go through gaps and if they jump your wakeup and you predict it isn't that (most of the time) a plus for you? Not to mention its very good hit advantage now. Always thought people really shit on it way too much.
 

Saltea Moonspell

"I'm a zoner, with ma boner"
Premium Supporter
Is his armor really that bad? It's completely serviceable to go through gaps and if they jump your wakeup and you predict it isn't that (most of the time) a plus for you? Not to mention its very good hit advantage now. Always thought people really shit on it way too much.
I cant agree more. That was sarcasm.