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Strategy - Hellfire So, time we had a discussion about Hellfire

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
Like do u even hear yourself? Reread your post. It's like saying "I know 2+2 equals 4 but we shouldn't discount the opinion that it could actually equal 5" moron
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
All of this can end if u just admit results (fact) outweigh opinion. It's very simple. I'm sure Vortex over here struggles in middle school but Taco u seem coherent. Why don't u just end this madness
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
All of this can end if u just admit results (fact) outweigh opinion. It's very simple. I'm sure Vortex over here struggles in middle school but Taco u seem coherent. Why don't u just end this madness
I never argued against results being leading in whether or not a player can be called the best. However, I feel like you're dismissing players completely who just don't have the means to travel consistently and prove their worth. Can they be called the best in that situation? Of course not, but that doesn't mean they don't count as really good players either.
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
No, it isn't. Have you ever placed in this games life? Regardless of the answer, your opinion is valid.

Coach Steve, Shujinkydink and Tom Brady, to name a few, haven't placed at a major in this games life - are their opinions invalid?
lol dude- the opinion of the person isn't what's invalid- it's the opinion of the subject matter- if they think Murko who has never even attended a major is better than raptor then yes, their opinions r invalid
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
I never argued against results being leading in whether or not a player can be called the best. However, I feel like you're dismissing players completely who just don't have the means to travel consistently and prove their worth. Can they be called the best in that situation? Of course not, but that doesn't mean they don't count as really good players either.
The means are irrelevant. Raptor doesn't have to prove shit, Murko does. If he really wanted it he'd find a way here. It's the same shit everyone told tweedy why is this any different. And for the record, as I don't know Murko I never said he was bad. This whole time all I've said is raptor is simply better, which is FACT based off RESULTS. And until Murko beats the best with his character, it can never be questioned who is better.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
No, it isn't. Have you ever placed in this games life? Regardless of the answer, your opinion is valid.

Coach Steve, Shujinkydink and Tom Brady, to name a few, haven't placed at a major in this games life - are their opinions invalid?
If they come out and say that their opinion is that a guy who has never even been to a real offline major and always plays online only is the best with a character when you have a known top player actually placing with said character in STACKED offline majors, people would start to think their opinion is not valid. Of course you can have your opinion but dont get mad when people think it is wrong especially when the other side is based on results/fact and yours is on speculation.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I never argued against results being leading in whether or not a player can be called the best. However, I feel like you're dismissing players completely who just don't have the means to travel consistently and prove their worth. Can they be called the best in that situation? Of course not, but that doesn't mean they don't count as really good players either.
Murko is clearly good, but unless he goes to a major and places it is still purely speculation. As it stands now Raptor has the results, Murko does not.
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
The means are irrelevant. Raptor doesn't have to prove shit, Murko does. If he really wanted it he'd find a way here. It's the same shit everyone told tweedy why is this any different. And for the record, as I don't know Murko I never said he was bad. This whole time all I've said is raptor is simply better, which is FACT based off RESULTS. And until Murko beats the best with his character, it can never be questioned who is better.
You're acting like I'm disagreeing with what you're saying when I'm not. The means also have nothing to do with it. You can be an amazing player without having tournament results, but you will never be rightfully called the best. What I'm very much disagreeing with though is your tone.
 

Yer_Da

I don't sell Avon.
If they come out and say that their opinion is that a guy who has never even been to a real offline major and always plays online only is the best with a character when you have a known top player actually placing with said character in STACKED offline majors, people would start to think their opinion is not valid. Of course you can have your opinion but dont get mad when people think it is wrong especially when the other side is based on results/fact and yours is on speculation.
For the record, I've repeatedly stated that I don't care who is better and don't have an opinion, however, I'm not dismissing anyone elses point of view purely out of hand, if someone prefers Murko then it makes no difference to me at all, that's their opinion. I'm not sure why it makes a difference to TheGoldenJew.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Is this not exactly what I've been saying the entire time?
You have pretty much, but some of the other people are still trying to say that Murko should be considered the best hellfire just because they think so, and it doesn't work that way. Anyway this thread is so far gone at this point I see a lock in the near future lol
 

TheGoldenJew

PSN: The_Golden_Jew1
It makes a difference because the entire argument that an opinion has merit when facts are in play is just retarted. The debate is so clear cut. It sucks Murko can't travel (I guess?). Consequently, raptor is the undisputed best scorpion in mkx. Very simple shit here.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
For the record, I've repeatedly stated that I don't care who is better and don't have an opinion, however, I'm not dismissing anyone elses point of view purely out of hand, if someone prefers Murko then it makes no difference to me at all, that's their opinion. I'm not sure why it makes a difference to TheGoldenJew.
Fair enough an opinion is an opinion cant really argue with that
 

rubmytaco

CarriedByClone
I'm honestly just kind of pissed because I started by stating that I am actively looking for a way to hopefully put this kind of thing to rest by trying to bring the entire community together. The NA vs EU thing has been going on forever and I think it has a lot to do with the fact that these two communities never really have the opportunity to interact other than on this forum where all there is is debate about things like this. To have that idea be shat on by trolling and turning it into a whole other discussion is extremely disappointing.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Just to add to this discussion, which is super fun.

Is it wrong to say that Dragon has the best kitana? Or is he the best 'player' playing her.

Revet has one of the best Tanya, but Sonic has beat him in the mirror. Is that because sonic has a better tanya or because as a FG player he just has better reactions/movement/spacing.

For me Atai has a better Kitana than Dragon. Dragon however is a superior player, which is evident by how well he does.

So how much is Raptor carried by his own skill? Could he play Takeda and get similar results because he has more experience and better overall play.

In my mind Raptor is a top 10 player; regardless of character. So whether Murko is the better Scorpion is irrelevant in tournament in this sense because if both went to tournament Raptor is heavily favored to make top 8 based on his past experience and general gameplay.

Now if you want to do the player argument then we would absolutely need more results from Murko in a seasoned competitive environment on the world stage. I'm sure he is good enough to compete at that level from watching him play, but until we do its speculation.

The fun part of this is thinking, does the character matter as much as the player behind them.
 

shura30

Shura
>please don't turn this thread into x is better with y
>thread turns into x is better with y

(@Zionix nailed it tho)

the topic was about hellfire's tools as a whole but has now turned to crap and lost its purpose


When I watched him play Murko on stream Murko beat him with variationless Scorpion and he whined. I've also played him some. Maybe I should watch more but I was going off of those things and AFK.
I'll try my best to not insult you despite the language barrier (on my end ofc) but I really want this out here and now

you know what I think is the problem with you?

you cannot accept the fact that your opinion is irrelevant and unwanted pretty much anywhere that you have to turn any discussion into something about you, something you noticed or something you'd like to explain to someone even if your opinion doesn't really contribute to the topic itself

you just take stuff off their context and try to use it to prove something people (in this case me) don't really give a f about
I could go and explain what happened in that stream that day since you took everything out of context and spouted nonsense
or what happened with that online casual set between you and me with chat logs and all
or I might ask why the last 4 pages in this thread are about my performances in mkx if the topic was hellfire toolset

but I don't really want to discuss with you at the cost of sounding passive-aggressive
this post is meant as a full stop

also, yes, I've noticed it too, lately you follow me, mention and quote me pretty much anywhere I go, you have an hard on me?want to say something?want to get my attention?you want to be my friend?don't you have top players friends to gang with and discuss stuff high level?

but if still isn't clear that I don't like or want to debate with you about anything game or non game related please accept this right now and don't even bother quoting or talking about me again because I can't find another combination of words to say that I don't really care about anything you say or do

just go on with your life in this community without me, I really mean this from my heart
 
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