Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

[Khaotic_xShangx]

Kung Lao's shouldn't be ending anything in low hat. After reading UFGs guide, I can see why. That thing is really negative on block and grants nothing really on hit.

Surely Skarlet has moves that are less than 12 frames...

she has only her standing 1 and her uppercut that are 10 frames. everything else is 12 frames plus. This is why it is hard to fully combo punish lao for throwing low hats in ur face. This why i think redraptor suggested doing "1 red dash ex upslash" which will combo and give you that punish but i cost meter and if she doesnt have meter at the time then he can get away with not being comboed and just eat an uppercut or a throw. Here is her frame data if you want to look: http://testyourmight.com/threads/skarlet-frame-data.8565/
i guess everyone will see why ex daggers helps her game cause if she didnt have them she would be in trouble against certain characters.

 

[Mosp]

Kung Lao's shouldn't be ending anything in low hat. After reading UFGs guide, I can see why. That thing is really negative on block and grants nothing really on hit.

Surely Skarlet has moves that are less than 12 frames...

Ya, her 10 frame standing 1 which can only be combo'd with meter. Other then that she has nothing, all her strings have slow startup.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

who says you have to combo him? Could you not poke with a D3 and go into all that crazy block string stuff she has?

(I don't know squat about skarlet... just asking lol)

 

[Mosp]

who says you have to combo him? Could you not poke with a D3 and go into all that crazy block string stuff she has?

(I don't know squat about skarlet... just asking lol)

You can poke him but it doesn't give you enough advantage to guarantee any of her strings so it's not really worth it.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

who says you have to combo him? Could you not poke with a D3 and go into all that crazy block string stuff she has?

(I don't know squat about skarlet... just asking lol)

you can go into them without combo but what fun is that and it tells them that i can throw low hats all day with no consequences. If i block low hat i can go into 114 ex dagger cancel to f2 string but this is all chip. You have to be careful with her crazy block strings cause that spin can eat them up.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

But chip damage is still damage and it builds meter. Sometimes that's all you'll get and something is better than nothing, yes? lol

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

But chip damage is still damage and it builds meter. Sometimes that's all you'll get and something is better than nothing, yes? lol

true but this is why she is not a top 10 character in my eyes like everyone thinks she is. if you look at the other top tier characters, they can full combo punish everyone with no sweat. Ill just burn this meter for now and do a 38% non-reset combo

 

[Johnny2d]

You can poke him but it doesn't give you enough advantage to guarantee any of her strings so it's not really worth it.

Seems that this one of the major hurdles we have to get past in this match.

We are going for chip, with the slightest error resulting in full combo. Although kung Laos window for error is very small too.

I've been using the backdash cancel out of ex dagger to bait retaliation, it works well against an aggressive Lao.

The thing I keep trying to remind myself is that he WANTS to spin, give him bate, he'll bite.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[WakeUp DP]

Low hitbox, better footsies, safe super armor into full resets into annoying frame traps etc etc etc...
Skarlet murders KL enough said.

 

[Johnny2d]

But chip damage is still damage and it builds meter. Sometimes that's all you'll get and something is better than nothing, yes? lol

Right, but skarlets blockstrings burn meter while Lao has all that nasty shit that is zero on block. So which wins, several different strings that have zero on block options and are hit confirmable into full combo, or blockstrings that need meter to keep going.

I'm not trying to argue that one is better than the other, its just variables in this matchup.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ryublaze]

When we're talking about Kung Lao spinning out of Skarlet's blockstrings, where in what blockstring do you mean? If you go for 1, 1, EX Dagger, safe jump, F2, 1, 2, 1+2, Slide or 1, 1, 4, EX Dagger, B1, 1, F4, Slide he won't be able to poke out. The only times he can spin out of blockstrings is when you do neutral Red Dashes or do a blockstring without enough cancel advantage.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

better footsies

how so?

KL has a roll that's relatively safe on block, a D4 that 0 on block, his 1121 string is 0 on block no matter where you cut it off, mixups with the 24 string. All of these combo with the spin.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

The only times he can spin out of blockstrings is when you do neutral Red Dashes or do a blockstring without enough cancel advantage.

care to give an example? I'm learning KL and always have a hard time against skarlet.

 

[Johnny2d]

We also gotta remember that this is just one of many situations that we get into in this match, and discussing it in this great of detail just makes us more prepared for the disadvantage.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Mosp]

Low hitbox, better footsies, safe super armor into full resets into annoying frame traps etc etc etc...
Skarlet murders KL enough said.

I can make lots of characters sound good by doing this and with this logic I guess she beats everyone.

 

[ryublaze]

care to give an example? I'm learning KL and always have a hard time against skarlet.

Skarlet can do neutral Red Dashes without going into slide for mindgames. Skarlet does 1, 1, 4, Red Dash she's at -6, but Skarlet players like to do another 1, 1, 4 which takes 10 frames to execute, which means KL has 16 frames to spin, otherwise he'd have to just frame it. A blockstring like F2, 1, 2, 1+2, Red Dash she's only at -4 so Skarlet can use this to bait a spin.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Skarlet can do neutral Red Dashes without going into slide for mindgames. Skarlet does 1, 1, 4, Red Dash she's at -6, but Skarlet players like to do another 1, 1, 4 which takes 10 frames to execute, which means KL has 16 frames to spin, otherwise he'd have to just frame it. A blockstring like F2, 1, 2, 1+2, Red Dash she's only at -4 so Skarlet can use this to bait a spin.

So after 114 or 114 Red Dash 114 ... spin to win?

 

[ryublaze]

Actually, I like the idea of baiting spin by blocking after a neutral Red Dash but that would make it a guessing game.

 

[WakeUp DP]

how so?

KL has a roll that's relatively safe on block, a D4 that 0 on block, his 1121 string is 0 on block no matter where you cut it off, mixups with the 24 string. All of these combo with the spin.

you can hit KL out of 1121.. D4 doeesnt give you free pressure, so you land a d4 then what? eat an ex bitch. roll? NJP into full combo.

 

[ryublaze]

So after 114 or 114 Red Dash 114 ... spin to win?

Yeah KL would have to just frame the spin to hit Skarlet after a blocked 1, 1, 4, Red Dash but he has to guess because she can always slide after Red Dash which can't be poked out of. But if Skarlet tries going for another 1, 1, 4 right after neutral Red Dash KL has more time to spin.

 

[Johnny2d]

Yeah KL would have to just frame the spin to hit Skarlet after a blocked 1, 1, 4, Red Dash but he has to guess because she can always slide after Red Dash which can't be poked out of. But if Skarlet tries going for another 1, 1, 4 right after neutral Red Dash KL has more time to spin.

This is what i was talking about when saying each player has to be Sharp in this situation. I personally don't trust my execution online for just frame inputs, so I tend to want to use bait tactics in this situation.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Johnny2d]

When we're talking about Kung Lao spinning out of Skarlet's blockstrings, where in what blockstring do you mean? If you go for 1, 1, EX Dagger, safe jump, F2, 1, 2, 1+2, Slide or 1, 1, 4, EX Dagger, B1, 1, F4, Slide he won't be able to poke out. The only times he can spin out of blockstrings is when you do neutral Red Dashes or do a blockstring without enough cancel advantage.

I meant after empty dash.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

you can hit KL out of 1121.. D4 doeesnt give you free pressure, so you land a d4 then what? eat an ex bitch. roll? NJP into full combo.

I guess u didnt watch the video of the skarlet v. kung lao play. Alot of people say lao mainers arent playing lao right but yet he is still dangerous with the way people are playing him now with there constant mobility that some people are not fast enough to keep up with. Why do you think he gives kenshi a hard time? Yes we can ex alot of things but if you get predictable with it they will do a string and either block or jump out the way and I just wasted a bar of meter. Theory fighting is cool but when it comes down to the match it is all execution. Lao has an advantage in the MU against her which is why skarlet players have to be smart on how they use their meter and apply her pressure. 1121 on the first 1 can be crouched then uppercutted but what if lao does a whiff dive kick to get in or roll and you have to respect a follow up after the roll at times, are you going to get to interrupt 21 or 1121 string now? This is were your theory fight is thrown out the window.

 

[Mosp]

I guess u didnt watch the video of the skarlet v. kung lao play. Alot of people say lao mainers arent play lao right but yet he is still dangerous with the way people are playing him now with there constant mobility that some people are not fast enough to keep up with. Why do you think he gives kenshi a hard time? Yes we can ex alot of things but if you get predictable with it they will do a string and either block or jump out the way and im just wasted a bar of meter. Theory fighting is cool but when it comes down to the match it is all execution. Lao has an advantage in the MU against her which is why skarlet players have to be smart on how the use there meter and apply her pressure. 1121 on the first 1 can be crouched then uppercutted but what if lao does whiff dive kick to get in or roll and you have to a follow up after the roll at times, are you going to get to interrupt 21 or 1121 string now? This is were your theory fight is thrown out the window.

I agree and to add onto that, how many Laos are just gonna throw out there 1121 string unless they landed a jump over punch? He has no reason to do that when he has much better options. His standing 2 will land on Skarlet crouch block as long as he is not as close as possible.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Fuck Kung Lao