Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Kl is over rated. That's all the first post should say. lol

 

[Mosp]

Kl is over rated. That's all the first post should say. lol

People say that all the time until they fight a good KL.

 

[Johnny2d]

Kl is over rated. That's all the first post should say. lol

That may be the case. Most people on here have agreed that they could use some help in the matchup though. It doesn't matter if we come to a consensus or not, the goal is to pack this thread with as much information as possible.

L0rdoftheFLY If you feel that confident in your game plan against Kl, please feel free to share any more strategy that the rest of us might be missing. I'm not trying to instigate anything against you, I think you are a great player and am excited to watch you play Skarlet, I'd just like to make these discussions as deep and relevant as possible.

 

[Johnny2d]

In my opinion Skarlet has her work cut out in this one.

There is no way she can throw out overheads Randomly or even in block strings, as Kung Lao can punish heavily in open space.

She cannot zone Kung Lao with Daggers, as one, she is not the best Zoner, and even the best zoning characters have serious problems keeping Kung Lao out.

After any Reset or block string ending in a Slide from her Red dash, she has to risk getting spun for even trying a jump, or d3, in fact any buttons, other than a block, or an red dash, although it is a change to bait spins out of a good Kung Lao player who knows when to spin, and not many of them do, and this scenario will occur even after Kung Lao baits an Red Dash into Slide.

Kung Lao can d3, uppercut and spin her 112 on crouch block, same as sonya, unless it is from a JIP.

Kung Lao can do this from any Dagger Cancel if he reads it after any reset, and when Kung Lao has , the game is over for Skarlet.

Skarlet's hit box being lowered at D3 is only an inconvenience for Kung Lao at best.

So she runs a huge risk in this fight for everything she does.

Its a theoretical 6-4 to Kung Lao, but it can not be even at 5-5, and there are no fundamental flaws in this match to make it 7-3.

What would you do if you were playing this match as Skarlet against a top Kung Lao player? What would you try to exploit or use to your advantage? Or, what would you do to try to even the odds?

 

[UsedForGlue]

What would you do if you were playing this match as Skarlet against a top Kung Lao player? What would you try to exploit or use to your advantage? Or, what would you do to try to even the odds?

I would just have to punish him as hard as possible for everything.

Full combo punishes on teleports (If he doesn't try early or overheads)
Bait spins with Red Dash Slides into D3...
Armour every low hat.

You just have to out play him and don't try zone him, accept that he will get in.

 

[Johnny2d]

I would just have to punish him as hard as possible for everything.

Full combo punishes on teleports (If he doesn't try early or overheads)
Bait spins with Red Dash Slides into D3...
Armour every low hat.

You just have to out play him and don't try zone him, accept that he will get in.

Nice, thank you sir.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Nice, thank you sir.

You really are board at work aren't you...

 

[MileenaOTR]

Pretty much every match-up is at least 6-4 Kung Lao if the Lao player is really good. That fucker just has too many options so in the right player's hands he will almost always have the advantage.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

People say that all the time until they fight a good KL.

I've been around for a while and have fought good kung Laos. I mean...I can't hardly count online forever king or foxy cause we all know how hard kl is online but it comes down to making them afraid to spin. At this point guys like me have fought good KLs

That may be the case. Most people on here have agreed that they could use some help in the matchup though. It doesn't matter if we come to a consensus or not, the goal is to pack this thread with as much information as possible.

L0rdoftheFLY If you feel that confident in your game plan against Kl, please feel free to share any more strategy that the rest of us might be missing. I'm not trying to instigate anything against you, I think you are a great player and am excited to watch you play Skarlet, I'd just like to make these discussions as deep and relevant as possible.

Kl has a fantastic 6 frame spin, a dive kick at any point in the air with instant recovery, and quick teleport that all can be blown the fuck up if you are patient. she has great options.

Footsies-she has great options here between d4, f4, and slide she has plenty of options here

Low hat from a distance-iAd over them, don't be afraid to jump and far or close dagger to bait a spin. Close dagger hit him out of spin but far dagger will go over his head leaving hm open for a f4 when you land for full combo?

Low hat on block-114 is best and is a great way to start pressure.

Teleport isn't really something to worry about. Even ex can be jumped away or depending on how far they delay the hit she can eh dash through the attack but say if they do over head with Armor I'm pretty sure Eh dash will go through them and you will waste a bar.

Dive kick- proper spacing on iAd and good dash blocking will make them think twice about doing any dive kicks at all.

It comes down to patients. Nightwolf is the reason I feel confident with skarlet. All he has over skarlet in this MU is reflect but that isn't why it's 5-5. KL can't establish any offense without taking risks...with his bad d 3 he best low poke is d1. This causes KL players to spin instead of poking. At the end of strings that are 0 the fastest attack wins when both attack and spin has priority over pokes...but with nw if I do f312 (bait the spin) I get a 45% combo.


All of skarlets string extenders can be interupted by spin if done at the right time if he crouches. However the same technique can be applied to skarlet. Even though she doesn't have strings that are safe on block, by cancelling into eh red dash you can blow up spin. After a reset you can red dash in and block and punish the spin. After a 114 hits dash in and bait the spin. Eh dagger cancels can be cancelled into a back dash baiting a spin and full combo punished. You just need to read your opponent and see when they spin and what there tendencies are.
Once they are afraid to spin, your pressure opens up as if if had never changed...it may or may not be in her favor but these are just reasons why and how she can compete. I think it's her favor though IMO if not 5-5.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Pretty much every match-up is at least 6-4 Kung Lao if the Lao player is really good. That fucker just has too many options so in the right player's hands he will almost always have the advantage.

That's a terrible reason to say its in KL favor. Should I make a list of skarlets options? She has quite the tool box my friend.

 

[MileenaOTR]

That's a terrible reason to say its in KL favor. Should I make a list of skarlets options? She has quite the tool box my friend.

I know what you mean there is always a way to win and some characters do better than others against him. But I do think if you have two evenly skilled players the Kung Lao player will come out on top way more often than not. This isn't a knock against KL players either he just has the strongest overall moveset in the game imo and more options than anyone else.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I know what you mean there is always a way to win and some characters do better than others against him. But I do think if you have two evenly skilled players the Kung Lao player will come out on top way more often than not. This isn't a knock against KL players either he just has the strongest overall moveset in the game imo and more options than anyone else.

You need to give reasons. Just because you think he wins doesn't enlighten anyone as to why? What tools can he abuse here? Why does he win 6 of 10?

 

[Mosp]

You need to give reasons. Just because you think he wins doesn't enlighten anyone as to why? What tools can he abuse here? Why does he win 6 of 10?

He can abuse his mobility which makes it hard for Skarlet to start her offense. She can't do anything about the roll and EX red dash goes through it. I also didn't know about the standing 1 combo to punish low hat so I'll have to try that because I think that also gives her a problem. Not having fast combo punishers against KL can hurt a lot.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

He can abuse his mobility which makes it hard for Skarlet to start her offense. She can't do anything about the roll and EX red dash goes through it. I also didn't know about the standing 1 combo to punish low hat so I'll have to try that because I think that also gives her a problem. Not having fast combo punishers against KL can hurt a lot.

Roll is good but why does mobility hurt her. He is only mobile until he makes a mistake which she can force him into. Mobility hurts nw too maybe but that's not that big of a deal.

And the roll is a smoke screen for the follow up. Which come down to reads.

 

[Johnny2d]

I know what you mean there is always a way to win and some characters do better than others against him. But I do think if you have two evenly skilled players the Kung Lao player will come out on top way more often than not. This isn't a knock against KL players either he just has the strongest overall moveset in the game imo and more options than anyone else.

I like the enthusiasm but lets try to stay specific to the Skarlet vs. Kung Lao matchup. Stating that in general Kung Lao is better than all other characters is not in service to helping the Skarlet player win the match.

 

[Johnny2d]

Roll is good but why does mobility hurt her. He is only mobile until he makes a mistake which she can force him into. Mobility hurts nw too maybe but that's not that big of a deal.

And the roll is a smoke screen for the follow up. Which come down to reads.

I think mobility hurts her when the other player's mobility stops her from getting her offense started. If the roll stops a red dash and starts a combo that's bad. If he rolls and I burn meter to dash and blast right through it, that's bad. The dive kick and spin both cut down on her dashing and jumping game. The suggestion of iaD I think will really help this to cut back on dive kicks, and to jump over the low hats.

LOTF- Your breakdown of the match helps a lot. Whats interesting is it turns into possibly one of the games best mind games. Basically, if Skarlet can convince the Kung Lao to respect certain things, that opens up her normal game (The iaD shuts down his dive kick, She can back dash out of En Dagger xx to try for a whiff punish, Empty dash to bait a spin then punish, etc) All of these options hinge on making the right guess first, which then gets into knowing the person you are facing behind the Kung Lao. Basically, whoever is forced to honor the other players options is at disadvantage, and who ever is able to apply their pressure will win. Sounds like every other fighter, every other fighting game, I just think its heightened with Skarlet V Kung Lao because they are both such high risk high reward characters, and FAST CHARACTERS. Whoever finds an opening better do it quick.

The suggestion to play with patience makes total sense, but can be tough, too much blocking and waiting for a mistake will end up with chip damage and tic throws like crazy, then you are left back at square one, making the right guess to put yourself into the right situation.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I think mobility hurts her when the other player's mobility stops her from getting her offense started. If the roll stops a red dash and starts a combo that's bad. If he rolls and I burn meter to dash and blast right through it, that's bad. The dive kick and spin both cut down on her dashing and jumping game. The suggestion of iaD I think will really help this to cut back on dive kicks, and to jump over the low hats.

LOTF- Your breakdown of the match helps a lot. Whats interesting is it turns into possibly one of the games best mind games. Basically, if Skarlet can convince the Kung Lao to respect certain things, that opens up her normal game (The iaD shuts down his dive kick, She can back dash out of En Dagger xx to try for a whiff punish, Empty dash to bait a spin then punish, etc) All of these options hinge on making the right guess first, which then gets into knowing the person you are facing behind the Kung Lao. Basically, whoever is forced to honor the other players options is at disadvantage, and who ever is able to apply their pressure will win. Sounds like every other fighter, every other fighting game, I just think its heightened with Skarlet V Kung Lao because they are both such high risk high reward characters, and FAST CHARACTERS. Whoever finds an opening better do it quick.

The suggestion to play with patience makes total sense, but can be tough, too much blocking and waiting for a mistake will end up with chip damage and tic throws like crazy, then you are left back at square one, making the right guess to put yourself into the right situation.

Your right...but look at street fighter at the highest level of play. It's all and I mean ALL footsies, tick throws, and small combos because the opportunity for the big stuff rarely presents itself. Having the tools makes no difference if your opponent never gives you the opportunity to use them. Dive kick is not really a threat...it has MUCH more risk than reward. Same goes for spin and teleport. These risks can pay off but at the highest level they will be punished more than you think. Your not just blocking either, your biding your time with footsies dash blocks, iAd, and slides. Eventually someone will take a risk and either it will pay off or not. If its against me it will not because I will play more patient than you every time

 

[Johnny2d]

Your right...but look at street fighter at the highest level of play. It's all and I mean ALL footsies, tick throws, and small combos because the opportunity for the big stuff rarely presents itself. Having the tools makes no difference if your opponent never gives you the opportunity to use them. Dive kick is not really a threat...it has MUCH more risk than reward. Same goes for spin and teleport. These risks can pay off but at the highest level they will be punished more than you think. Your not just blocking either, your biding your time with footsies dash blocks, iAd, and slides. Eventually someone will take a risk and either it will pay off or not. If its against me it will not because I will play more patient than you every time

Well said. Time to level up

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Well said. Time to level up

Let's do it!

 

[Johnny2d]

Guys, I added the link to the UsedForGlue Kung Lao guide in the #1 post. Its not that its at all hard to find, but if our goal is to organize information, we might as well add that here so it becomes a one stop shop for matchup info.

 

[Big Pampering]

What do people use to punish teleport? What do people do about the roll?

whiff punish the roll, if you know they are going to roll in on you all day, just walk backwards, KL is kind of fucked if it whiffs, full combo punish.

 

[Johnny2d]

• If Kung Lao teleports, and Skarlet teleport too on reaction, chances are that Skarlet's teleport, will have priority and hit Kung Lao, no matter what option he chooses after teleport ?

What do people think about teleport on reaction to teleport?

 

[Big Pampering]

What do people think about teleport on reaction to teleport?

if you know hes gonna teleport you just uppercut him. you can d1 punish for full teleport but he lao can do the drop down version which can mess up your timing if the teleport 3 connects youre going to get punished much harder than your d1 punish combo.

 

[Mosp]

Roll is good but why does mobility hurt her. He is only mobile until he makes a mistake which she can force him into. Mobility hurts nw too maybe but that's not that big of a deal.

And the roll is a smoke screen for the follow up. Which come down to reads.

Not to bring NW in to the discussion but I feel he can deal with KL's mobility better because of his standing 1. Skarlet doesn't have a fast move like that which helps her spacing, instead she has her daggers which I feel don't do too much in this match. If KL spaces his divekicks and rolls i feel Skarlet can't do anything about it except wait to see what he follows up with when he recovers. That's why I feel his mobility hurts Skarlet a great deal.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

What do people think about teleport on reaction to teleport?

i dont like it personally