Match-up Discussion Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao

[ryublaze]

Oh, so that is not a true high that is why it hits her
I'm starting to think Skarlet can stilll Sell a En Dash behind a trade like strings and Wakeups in this matchup to bait keep Kung lao at Bay

Pls test if a F4 En Red dash , will go through the trade and place Skarlet in Position to Up Slash kung?

Kung Lao's standing 2 would beat out F4 so the En Red Dash won't come out. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Kung Lao's standing 2 would beat out F4 so the En Red Dash won't come out. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding.

no, you're not. its all good

 

[Johnny2d]

Oh, so that is not a true high

Sorry for the confusion guys, in the Kung Lao guide it says that standing 2 whiffs on neautral crouch but hits crouch block. I didn't know what the properties of the skarlet f4 were. Now I know it is like a crouch block, sort of, thanks for the test.

 

[Johnny2d]

Just to continue with this situation in mind of Kung Lao pressing with 1,1,2, strings, then 2, to check. If we can spot this tendency, this does open up d1, and d3, which grant their respective +1 for d1 and +3 for d3. D3 for +3 frames gives you closer to a free 9 frame 114, but could still get blown up by the 6 frame spin. Which leads to the question, does he have to respect her follow ups after d1 or d3? On hit, if he is standing, they don't grant enough advantage. In the Kung Lao guide the recomendation is to never use the d3 because it is 9 frames, why would Kung Lao participate in the footsies game?

Once he's in, should we just be trying to push him out with the pokes, to get him at the right d4 distance? Or maybe this is a good spot for d1, or d3 canceled to En Dash. The d3 is bait, he knows the spin is just as fast as any follow up, so he spins, and eats the follow combo from the En Dash. Seems like a big risk for a bar of meter.

My theory fighting in this is rediculous here I know, I'm sitting at a computer playing the match in my head, but I'd like to know exactly my options when he's in close and pressing, rather than just guess.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Just to continue with this situation in mind of Kung Lao pressing with 1,1,2, strings, then 2, to check. If we can spot this tendency, this does open up d1, and d3, which grant their respective +1 for d1 and +3 for d3. D3 for +3 frames gives you closer to a free 9 frame 114, but could still get blown up by the 6 frame spin. Which leads to the question, does he have to respect her follow ups after d1 or d3? On hit, if he is standing, they don't grant enough advantage. In the Kung Lao guide the recomendation is to never use the d3 because it is 9 frames, why would Kung Lao participate in the footsies game?

Once he's in, should we just be trying to push him out with the pokes, to get him at the right d4 distance? Or maybe this is a good spot for d1, or d3 canceled to En Dash. The d3 is bait, he knows the spin is just as fast as any follow up, so he spins, and eats the follow combo from the En Dash. Seems like a big risk for a bar of meter.

My theory fighting in this is rediculous here I know, I'm sitting at a computer playing the match in my head, but I'd like to know exactly my options when he's in close and pressing, rather than just guess.

Gaps will be the key to keep toe to toe with him if he is trying to rushdown skarlet
If kung lao has tendency of confirming his mixups with another mixups, since they're all 0 on block, you can En Dash in to get in your game.

Lets have a clear look at the gaps

Kung lao does 112 (0 on block),d1 or 23~low hat
Skarlet blocks 112( Gap) " In this gap Skarlet can do a En Red Dash"

Even if is just to get in, if Lao does a 6 frames spins, he will eat a full combo, if lao does a d1 7 Frames he can possibly eat a full combo if he doesn't stand up, because down slash might be commin. If lao use D3, well, you already said is 9 frames, and more -7 to recover total of 17 frames that will screw him.

By pull in a Red Dash even if they just block trying to bait a slash or a slide, they're invicting themselves into the block string, remember Skarlet builds meter faster, so i personally don't have afraid of using F2121+2~rd~slide or 114~dc~f2121+2~whatever once they block standing, just by taking the chip is already 10% of chip damage and a super bar replaced.

If they don't block... well, its a 41% at least with a reset to another block string or 50/50

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

i just uppercut him with our 10 frame uppercut on the 112 and 21 strings. works like a charm and after they eat a few of these they may start b333 string which is punish if they end it with low hat or spin. Just an idea to throw out there.

 

[Johnny2d]

i just uppercut him with our 10 frame uppercut on the 112 and 21 strings. works like a charm and after they eat a few of these they may start b333 string which is punish if they end it with low hat or spin. Just an idea to throw out there.

Nice, I like it.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

hey yall i was doing offline casuals yesterday in houston with showtime, cat, scar, pro spic and i was able to get the skarlet v. kung lao match up in. we did a first to 5...i lost 5-3 but a few negative edge mistakes and dropped combos lost me the set. Just look at this and see what i could have done better and see were yall think lao has holes at. Emp_scar is in here too so yall can watch him work too.

Here is the link: http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319077079

starts at 3:14 and it goes to about 3:41 i think

yall can watch the whole vid to see the talent we have in texas.

here is me play emp_scar and cat...very good players
http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319096402

 

[ryublaze]

hey yall i was doing offline casuals yesterday in houston with showtime, cat, scar, pro spic and i was able to get the skarlet v. kung lao match up in. we did a first to 5...i lost 5-3 but a few negative edge mistakes and dropped combos lost me the set. Just look at this and see what i could have done better and see were yall think lao has holes at. Emp_scar is in here too so yall can watch him work too.

Here is the link: http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319077079

starts at 3:14 and it goes to about 3:41 i think

yall can watch the whole vid to see the talent we have in texas.

here is me play emp_scar and cat...very good players
http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319096402

I haven't played much offline but the times I did I know how hard the transition is especially with Skarlet lol.

1st match - Nice reaction to teleport and using EX Red Dash. It looked like jumping was difficult since he could counter and stop you from doing much. I'm not a big fan of the 2, 1, 2 string. I think 1, 1, 4 would have helped more. Also anytime you connect D4 I think you should go into Red Dash.

2nd match - EX Hat seemed like a problem but you handled it well the 2nd time he did it. Interesting how Slide beats Roll.

3rd match - I think you could have extended damage a bit more in your combos. Nice using daggers to stop him from teleporting at the end.

4th match - Nice blockstrings at the end. It seemed like he wasn't too familiar with how Skarlet works.

5th match - Glad to see you pull off the standing reset into 1, 1, 2 blockstrings. I'm not sure if using 1, 1, 2 instead of 1, 1, 4 makes a big difference. 1, 1, 4 has jsut a little mroe cancel advantage I think. 2nd and 3rd ruonds had some mistakes.

6th match - Good D3 and D4ing out of pressure.

I'll probably watch the rest some other time. Great Skarlet I think you could have used some more instant air daggers, or just air daggers in general. I'm no pro Skarlet so some stuff I said probably isn't the best, just giving my feedback.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

I do the 112 alot more than the 114 cause i found out the the ex dagger with 112 hits every crouch block character in the game with the first dagger she throws guaranteeing me the +21 frames so i can automatically get the b11f4 setup unless they neutral crouch the daggers but who does that. I will blow someone up if they star neutral crouching after certain strings. I had to many people poke me with 114 ex dagger cause the first dagger whiffs on everyone if the crouch block but second dagger hits. It is where her arm is that determines how the daggers will hit. If you look emp_scar does the 112 alot too and he has been maining her longer than me.

 

[ryublaze]

I do the 112 alot more than the 114 cause i found out the the ex dagger with 112 hits every crouch block character in the game with the first dagger she throws guaranteeing me the +21 frames so i can automatically get the b11f4 setup unless they neutral crouch the daggers but who does that. I will blow someone up if they star neutral crouching after certain strings. I had to many people poke me with 114 ex dagger cause the first dagger whiffs on everyone if the crouch block but second dagger hits. It is where her arm is that determines how the daggers will hit. If you look emp_scar does the 112 alot too and he has been maining her longer than me.

Personally I don't like doing 1, 1, 2, EX Dagger on crouch block because someone who knows how to fight her will just poke once they see the EX Dagger and I'd waste a bar of meter. Not to say that it doesn't work because I've done a few times today, but once people start figuring her out they'll just let go of block everytime after 1, 1, 2. If they see you Red Dash they can press block again.

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

Personally I don't like doing 1, 1, 2, EX Dagger on crouch block because someone who knows how to fight her will just poke once they see the EX Dagger and I'd waste a bar of meter. Not to say that it doesn't work because I've done a few times today, but once people start figuring her out they'll just let go of block everytime after 1, 1, 2. If they see you Red Dash they can press block again.

has anyone messed with 112 or 114 or even just 11 straight to ex downslash. maybe this is alternative to people who may try to start neutral crouching daggers when they see these strings.

 

[Eddy Wang]

hey yall i was doing offline casuals yesterday in houston with showtime, cat, scar, pro spic and i was able to get the skarlet v. kung lao match up in. we did a first to 5...i lost 5-3 but a few negative edge mistakes and dropped combos lost me the set. Just look at this and see what i could have done better and see were yall think lao has holes at. Emp_scar is in here too so yall can watch him work too.

Here is the link: http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319077079

starts at 3:14 and it goes to about 3:41 i think

yall can watch the whole vid to see the talent we have in texas.

here is me play emp_scar and cat...very good players
http://www.twitch.tv/kombathouston/b/319096402

Love it Shang such an amazing job with Skarlet, you just need to keep your momentum, here are some tips ^^

Shangx, everytime you connect a Jip while he is blocking go for the block trap, even if you just do it twice and the 3rd time you go for the slide you will do atleast 28% damage of chip wich is lovely for her.

I personally don't use 112 dagger cancel, but 114 definately gives her more frame advantage on cancel, and it happens so fast that they'll don't have time to spin.

When you do a combo and reset on 112~red dash go for 114 again if they're respecting the followups this will keep them jammed into block strings and keep losing 10% of life everytime they block.
Also by go for block traps almost everytime they block standing you will be fueling more meter and with the time, you will always have meter to spend.

I notice you hardly use the F4 Check since this Kung Lao don't rushdown on Skarlet with afraid of whiffing his strings, he goes for teles and dive kicks most of the time. You handled it very well i'm proud.However, since he doesn't move a lot, by about a step from dash distance they'll be in range of the F4 wich canceling has hit confirm proprieties (meaning you can do a 40% meterless reset from this)

In general your game is fine, real fine, no random En Dashes, great control with daggers, you only lost the other matches due the fact that sometimes you get a combo and you dropped your advantage after a reset, like that down slash you did and he blocked. And some single hits that could be hit confirmed to rd~up Slash/down slash and go for the reset there.

I could explain a million things to you that you could do to him, but i invite you to watch these matches a few times and see some of the common mistakes of this kung Lao where you could put him in Block traps, punish with F4, like those spins on range where Skarlet arms couldn't punish.

I'm proud of ya, you rep skarlet very well and i've learned easy ways to reset after the flesh and blood string.

Maybe i should do a vid about every kind of situation where Skarlet has a gap she can get big rewards from a single likable move. From ground to air to air.

 

[Johnny2d]

Maybe i should do a vid about every kind of situation where Skarlet has a gap she can get big rewards from a single likable move. From ground to air to air.

Eddy, if you want to do a "Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao" exclusive video, maybe pull the information from this thread and show it in video? Just a thought. That would be a great addition to feature in the front of this thread once its done

 

[Khaotic_xShangx]

Eddy Wang
RedRaptor10

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to incorporate all they things yall suggested into my game. This is a read heavy character and I finally fully understand that now. She is no JC who you can just stick to the same tricks over and over and eventually catch them slipping. One thing that was messing me up is that at my house ive had my ps3 on 1080p when it is suppose to be on 720p which cuts more lag off the game. Cant wait to see the video if you make one. I will be glad to know that i contributed to helping everyone get their game better with her.

p.s. Did yall check out emp_scar's skarlet too against kitana and kabal? I guess for future match up discussion like this week, those matches can be used to determine what works and what doesnt.

 

[Johnny2d]

Eddy Wang
RedRaptor10

Thanks for the feedback. I will try to incorporate all they things yall suggested into my game. This is a read heavy character and I finally fully understand that now. She is no JC who you can just stick to the same tricks over and over and eventually catch them slipping. One thing that was messing me up is that at my house ive had my ps3 on 1080p when it is suppose to be on 720p which cuts more lag off the game. Cant wait to see the video if you make one. I will be glad to know that i contributed to helping everyone get their game better with her.

p.s. Did yall check out emp_scar's skarlet too against kitana and kabal? I guess for future match up discussion like this week, those matches can be used to determine what works and what doesnt.

I can't wait to watch these man. I'm at work and the net speed here makes watching vids unbearable. I'll post on them after I get home later for sure.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Eddy, if you want to do a "Skarlet Vs. Kung Lao" exclusive video, maybe pull the information from this thread and show it in video? Just a thought. That would be a great addition to feature in the front of this thread once its done

Smith will possibly be here tomorrow, i'll have a best of 10 with his Kung Lao, and record it all, then i'll try to upload the vid until this sunday for sure.

Also there was some things i was studing around that requires more practice from Skarlet players, maybe after 12h from here it will be up too.

 

[FCP/EMP SCAR]

This is a very annoying matchup for skarlet depending on how good the Lao user is, i played PL in online matches and he was able to take matches for the sheer fact that lao is faster and more mobile, i hate the facr that its online because i do feel that its a winnable matchup for skarlet u just have to lock lao down when possible, and have a good footsie game and u should come out on top, its a diff ballgame offline, my d1 anti airs and footsie game where not able for the sheer fact of lag, try to be more of the aggressor but a careful agressor, dont wanna eat a wakeup

 

[Johnny2d]

This is a very annoying matchup for skarlet depending on how good the Lao user is, i played PL in online matches and he was able to take matches for the sheer fact that lao is faster and more mobile, i hate the facr that its online because i do feel that its a winnable matchup for skarlet u just have to lock lao down when possible, and have a good footsie game and u should come out on top, its a diff ballgame offline, my d1 anti airs and footsie game where not able for the sheer fact of lag, try to be more of the aggressor but a careful agressor, dont wanna eat a wakeup

Thanks for the contribution. I've heard your name a lot as one of the top Skarlet players to get in touch with, and am glad to get your thoughts in addition to the others.

I feel like this Skarlet community gets stronger by the day. I'm going to start compiling information into bullet points over the weekend. Everyone feel free to continue to add to this with new ideas or tests, or proof in videos and such. We can also start talking other bad matchups so we can roll over the talks into the next week.

-Cheers

 

[Eddy Wang]

Here it is the first part of the test in theory.

RedRaptor10
Johnny2d
Khaotic_xShangx
Mosp
Ninj
SaJa
Mike (Fly)

thoughs?

 

[Johnny2d]

Yeah buddy. I love it.

Sent from my ADR6300 using Tapatalk 2

 

[ryublaze]

Eddy Wang I like the video. I'm not sure if neutral Red Dashes are a good idea. Kung Lao's 6 frame spin will punish it with a full combo, so it doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.

 

[Eddy Wang]

Eddy Wang I like the video. I'm not sure if neutral Red Dashes are a good idea. Kung Lao's 6 frame spin will punish it with a full combo, so it doesn't seem like it's worth the risk.

it does if they're respecting the slide ^^

 

[Eddy Wang]

I want to discuss this... also because i've test every possible way to punish tele3

Just watch how Skarlet goes too low on the F4 at the moment the kung Lao's kick is fully extent.

However this requires timing like a D3 on Kabals NDC, do you guys think is worth the shot?
Yes? or No?

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

What I have the most problems with is low hat. It is -12 on block but Skarlet's fastest punisher is 12 frames so there is no way you can punish with that. What I've been using instead is the 114 string to start my pressure so it's not the typical punish but it is something and something is better than nothing. I was curious what everyone else does to counter low hat on block. If Skarlet has no answer that's a huge problem cuz essentially he can end all his strings with it and be safe.

Kung Lao's shouldn't be ending anything in low hat. After reading UFGs guide, I can see why. That thing is really negative on block and grants nothing really on hit.

Surely Skarlet has moves that are less than 12 frames...