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Scorpion General Discussion

one thing I don't like about scorpion is that he has no 3 hitting special cancelable string. I feel like b143 should be one.
Why would you need it? More time to hitconfirm? Or more yolo ender?:)
B143 is good for hitconfirm but guessing games ends with it with -5 (still guessing game for follow up).
Making it special cancellable would be too much. Or it should be unsafe which is worse.
 
I like SR more because I have more options from f3. When it comes down to it, Reborn will have to play more yolo to make the TP’s unpredictable.
I agree with the F3 part. More to worry about easier to mess up with the opponent. E.g. after F3 opponent should always block high to cover OH and it opens up more mixup opportunities. Not mentioning the fear factor of F32 even after Using F34 KB.

However I don't agree with Reborn Yolo play. You play the same as with SR with the ability of free escape or better whiff punish tele cancel or yes creating some mixups wit cancel when the opponent is already under pressure.
In that situation a tele cancel has not really more risk than an F32 on read.

I have interesting feeling about the variations. I felt me more safe and conservative with SR as I could bank defensive bar for breakaway and wake up.
But when I played Reborn I also felt me pretty safe and even more free/versatile in the field despite the fact that I had no full def bar all the time.
B14xxaway tele was just pretty good feeling. And even F42 away tele which is fake though.
And I also like the 112 vs 11xxspear bnb ender to even bait the opponent breakaway. Sometimes I do the 112 ender with SR too just for this (insteas of 212+4). With Reborn it is "free" as there is no better lol.

But I obviously downplay SR. Yes there are setups for BS but I rather use OKI enders already as to me it has more potential damage. And I do not really use DS either in combos. However anti air d2 into D1xxDS is cool - easier than D1 xx BF1 lol.
In neutral I just dont like using it but can admit it can be annoying and strong. It is not worth me the risk.

Maybe I bornt to be Reborn lol.
I did not play too much Reborn though and now I am messing with Erron lol. So far scorpion is obviously MY character and I do not think it will change. I am so comfortable with all his current tools and options - this feeling is coming from mkx.

Of course there are other fun characters in the game and it is better to try all of them. :)
 
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Why would you need it? More time to hitconfirm? Or more yolo ender?:)
B143 is good for hitconfirm but guessing games ends with it with -5 (still guessing game for follow up).
Making it special cancellable would be too much. Or it should be unsafe which is worse.
I mean it would help hitconfirming. I mean he had 2 of them in mkx and maybe a couple in mk9. there are multiple characters that have it including geras and his ends in like -3. People already talk way too much about nerfing scorpion but how about some fixes to his frame data
 
I mean it would help hitconfirming. I mean he had 2 of them in mkx and maybe a couple in mk9. there are multiple characters that have it including geras and his ends in like -3. People already talk way too much about nerfing scorpion but how about some fixes to his frame data
Good point. They probably just want stop scorpion's turn after that move. With sc sr can yolo DS lol or reborn tele cancel : which could cause extra stagger option on B143.

Or just they did not care haha.
But it would affect more than just easier hitconfirm I think.

Practice B1 hitconfirm it is not that difficult.

Yeah Geras is top 3 Scorpion is not. But fortunately not much behind with his tools. :)
I am curious if they nerf scorpion's teleport somehow. On mid level tele amp "50/50" does not exist and there would be no Reborn variation with worse teleport cancel.
If they focus on competitive mode they will not nerf.

Scorpion tele scrubs will terrorize the low level area lol.

By the way I think there is no Scorpion player in summit... ton of Sonya, Erron, Geras, Cassie even Kitana.
I like watching and cheering to my favorite char players meh. :)
That's why I picked Erron too - it is more fun watching pros if you KNOW the character. :) +better fighting against it later.
 
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Good point. They probably just want stop scorpion's turn after that move. With sc sr can yolo DS lol or reborn tele cancel : which could cause extra stagger option on B143.

Or just they did not care haha.
But it would affect more than just easier hitconfirm I think.

Practice B1 hitconfirm it is not that difficult.
There wouldn't really be a guessing game if it were still -5. Can't really press buttons from it on block. Special cancelling it on block with scorpions tournament specials is pretty much death. Even with reborn, you'll probably get d1 out of it by your opponent. At this point it's more like just settling for what scorpion has. His big thing is f3 and teleport but outside of that it's bad frame data. No one played him seriously at summit. The way mk is and the dial a combo system you're not really hitconfirming b1. You're really just taking a gamble. It's not like how it is with street fighter. That's where the premise of scorpion being a whiff punisher comes from. It might be possible to hitconfirm with 2 button strings but you still run the risk of being punished with scorpion at least. It's very possible to hit confirm 3 buttons though.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
I agree with the F3 part. More to worry about easier to mess up with the opponent. E.g. after F3 opponent should always block high to cover OH and it opens up more mixup opportunities. Not mentioning the fear factor of F32 even after Using F34 KB.

However I don't agree with Reborn Yolo play. You play the same as with SR with the ability of free escape or better whiff punish tele cancel or yes creating some mixups wit cancel when the opponent is already under pressure.
In that situation a tele cancel has not really more risk than an F32 on read.

I have interesting feeling about the variations. I felt me more safe and conservative with SR as I could bank defensive bar for breakaway and wake up.
But when I played Reborn I also felt me pretty safe and even more free/versatile in the field despite the fact that I had no full def bar all the time.
B14xxaway tele was just pretty good feeling. And even F42 away tele which is fake though.
And I also like the 112 vs 11xxspear bnb ender to even bait the opponent breakaway. Sometimes I do the 112 ender with SR too just for this (insteas of 212+4). With Reborn it is "free" as there is no better lol.

But I obviously downplay SR. Yes there are setups for BS but I rather use OKI enders already as to me it has more potential damage. And I do not really use DS either in combos. However anti air d2 into D1xxDS is cool - easier than D1 xx BF1 lol.
In neutral I just dont like using it but can admit it can be annoying and strong. It is not worth me the risk.

Maybe I bornt to be Reborn lol.
I did not play too much Reborn though and now I am messing with Erron lol. So far scorpion is obviously MY character and I do not think it will change. I am so comfortable with all his current tools and options - this feeling is coming from mkx.

Of course there are other fun characters in the game and it is better to try all of them. :)
Damage, range, & f3 options are my top 3 reasons why V2 is better. Since f3 is Scorp’s main footsies tools I’d give V2 the nod on that alone.
 
There wouldn't really be a guessing game if it were still -5. Can't really press buttons from it on block. Special cancelling it on block with scorpions tournament specials is pretty much death. Even with reborn, you'll probably get d1 out of it by your opponent. At this point it's more like just settling for what scorpion has. His big thing is f3 and teleport but outside of that it's bad frame data. No one played him seriously at summit. The way mk is and the dial a combo system you're not really hitconfirming b1. You're really just taking a gamble. It's not like how it is with street fighter. That's where the premise of scorpion being a whiff punisher comes from. It might be possible to hitconfirm with 2 button strings but you still run the risk of being punished with scorpion at least. It's very possible to hit confirm 3 buttons though.
B1 hitconfirm is not gamble. Input B14 then hitconfirm to tele or input 3 to be safe (or tele cancel).
So he has a good safe footsie tool which leads into big damage. No doubt others have same too lol. Erron black can even mixup on block lol. But he is better.

On pro level probably there are reliable characters to play with - higher tiers. Against Sonya, Jaqui, Geras Scorpion counter zone tool is not that great so he might able to shut half of the cast down - he cant the top tiers. In footsies others might do the same or better.

That does not mean Scorpion is bad or not fun. In casual a good scorpion is even better as everybody wait for the teleport lol.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
one thing I don't like about scorpion is that he has no 3 hitting special cancelable string. I feel like b143 should be one.
b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.
 
b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.
High tele would kill Reborn I guess.
Only ducking on reaction or just D2 lol. No matter it is a cancel or normal.
 
b14 is hit confirmable. If b1 connects, b14 cancel, if b1 is blocked, b143 to make it safe.

Same with f42. Hit confirmable, if blocked go into f423.

Scorpion doesn’t need anything. He’s perfectly fine. I wouldn’t mind seeing TP become a high instead of a mid, wouldn’t really change much other than bad Scorpion players would be easier to beat.
I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?
 
I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?
D1/D2/throw tech is your friend if you read a throw. But you are minus so you can be punished for it hard. Characters with only 13 frame mid has more difficult time though as 7F D1 can poke out throw, 13F mid. D1 check can be baited too. That's mind game.

With 9-11F mid which leads into combo the life is easier lol. You get the respect easier then you can throw.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I'd say maybe f42 is more hit confirmable because of it's long animation. You b143 you're in your opponents face you're -5 and you're probably about to eat a throw. Scorpion's fine but you want to nerf teleport which is apparently his best tool. How does that make sense?
-5 is safe. If you know you’re about to eat a throw... duck? And I was saying he certainly doesn’t need any buffs. Only thing I could see changing is his TP going from a mid to a high. Wouldn’t really change anything other than random TP’s would be even more riskier than they already are. So it would help people stop complaining about Scorpion and his teleport. Essentially, if they nerf something that doesn’t matter it will be fine with me. Still will be stupid because he’s fine how he is though. Sorry didn’t make that clear in my first response.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear
 
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Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear
I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?
 
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OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?
Well, you’re right about Scorp having good oki. Most players breakaway as soon as you launch them. I find my opponent on the ground with no resources more times than not.

I guess it just depends on the match up. I hate ending with death spin and they fly full screen vs characters like Skarlet, but I love it against Jacqui lol.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I was thinking about the same 1 week ago but my conclusion was that I rather hit +90-100 for that (+)1 bar and play strong oki than use it for a potential thick throw pressure.
The potential damage after the standing reset is not too much to me. 140 compared to guaranteed 90-100.

Most damage comes from neutral and punish AND for 1 bar... if you cash out for 2 bars into reset your most damaging tool is the throw (other unsafe moves like F32xx DS is the same but for what cost!)... after 1 bar KB you have the chance to make it more but it will not a throw lol. And that means neutral started and it is not 100% chance to get your damage instead of the guaranteed.

But it is just my math-maniac optimization oppinion lol.

Of course as a pressure section it is a good idea and can worth the bar... it is fun too... but I do not see that on the long run more damage can be done from reset.
In MKX it was cool as it was free and the damage is still optimal.... here it isn't... cost a precious bar and less damage... and potential damage is not that big.

I think Scorpion's oki game is pretty good... and I feel he is designed to be rather oki than reset character.

What do you think?
Id say it depends on who you are fighting and what the situation is. If you are fighting someone who you struggle to open up, take the damage when you can get it. If you have a life lead and want to keep up the pressure in hopes of getting a followup tick throw or another combo go for the 21 plus frames. It is nice to have the option at least
 
-5 is safe. If you know you’re about to eat a throw... duck? And I was saying he certainly doesn’t need any buffs. Only thing I could see changing is his TP going from a mid to a high. Wouldn’t really change anything other than random TP’s would be even more riskier than they already are. So it would help people stop complaining about Scorpion and his teleport. Essentially, if they nerf something that doesn’t matter it will be fine with me. Still will be stupid because he’s fine how he is though. Sorry didn’t make that clear in my first response.
-5 and basically in your opponent's mouth. if it had more pushback no problem. duck and then eat a mid, ok. no people are complaining just to complain. maybe they should learn to block. as many teleports get thrown out at whatever level of play they're playing at then they should be blocking and punishing.
 
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D1/D2/throw tech is your friend if you read a throw. But you are minus so you can be punished for it hard. Characters with only 13 frame mid has more difficult time though as 7F D1 can poke out throw, 13F mid. D1 check can be baited too. That's mind game.

With 9-11F mid which leads into combo the life is easier lol. You get the respect easier then you can throw.
you're not gonna d1 them out of a -5 block string at least not online. I hear people talk about how good scorpion's d2 is, probably becuase of it's good pushback, so it can't be that much of a hard punish. throw teching is a complete guess. if anything you're going to eat your opponent's d1 if you try something.
 
Don’t know how you guys feel about this, but lately I’ve been ending my combos with 21. For example, f32xxAmpTP > f3 > 11xxAmpSpear > 21. Does 309 damage and leaves Scorp +19. This means f3, b1, b2, d1, and d4 all frame trap. You can even get a pseudo-safe jump from this set up.

Usually I’ll check them with the f3 frame trap then tick throw. That’s nets another 140 damage. You can play all of your f3 mindgames because it’s free.

Tell me what you guys think of it.

EDIT: here are some other combos for this set up.

D2KB > 4xxAmpSpear - 324
F34KB xx AmpTP > 4xxAmpSpear - 350
Anti-air 4xxAmpSpear >21 - 167
Basically any combo with Amp Spear
standing 4 has 1 less frame of hit advantage but it is a more damaging button to help your combos when you reset. the only time i go for some standing reset is if i get a full screen ex spear. it might not be worth it spending two bars to reset. maybe if scorpion didn't have to meter burn spear to keep them standing.
 
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Alpha Centauri

The Machine
Sorry if this the wrong thread to post. Looking for any tips on scorpions f3, 11 juggle after tele ampd. I normally play SR so i do f32 into spear. But now that im trying reborn i feel my jabs whiff about half the time. Thanks
 
you're not gonna d1 them out of a -5 block string at least not online. I hear people talk about how good scorpion's d2 is, probably becuase of it's good pushback, so it can't be that much of a hard punish. throw teching is a complete guess. if anything you're going to eat your opponent's d1 if you try something.
Online or not if you are -5 and opponent throws you can crouch 100%. However you might be right if you D2 - D1 too late the game writes: "throw kounter"... Probably it does not low profile yet in the first 1-2 frames? Or I dont know lol but experienced.

Okay I labbed my apologize spreading bullshit! Fortunately throws work like in IJ2 as if you do not have frame for that D1 it will not come out and writes throw kounter.
I am pretty sure it was not that way in MKX as my friend always D2 me when I was plus lol. But rather not spread more false info.

So yeah after -5 you can only do crouch to avoid throw or guess with the tech throw. First option is pretty risky lol. Especially against a character who has 9-11F MID launcher and he has absolutely no risk to drop it after -5. D1-D2 can low profile high moves though after -5 if the opponent likes dropping it.

By the way in the lab I could do the situation that after F423 which is -8 on block I did a D1 but probably a bit slower than fastest. Reversal throw whiffed and D1 hit. With a bit slower throw it said "throw kounter". Probably because when the reversal throw came out I was crouching then pressed D1 lol.
But at the end of the day it is also equal to crouching not real D1... good lesson for both side lol.
I am a bit confused though it was not what I expected.
 
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Id say it depends on who you are fighting and what the situation is. If you are fighting someone who you struggle to open up, take the damage when you can get it. If you have a life lead and want to keep up the pressure in hopes of getting a followup tick throw or another combo go for the 21 plus frames. It is nice to have the option at least
You guys are right about reset it depends on the situation - and good to have that option too - much better than not having it lol - at least Scorpion CAN mixup his play not every character can do it.

NRS did a great job that they made this reset option well balanced to consider it carefully.

Everybody can decide how to approach Scorpion... from yolo teleport to footsie, oki or even reset play... or doing all at once!
 
Online or not if you are -5 and opponent throws you can crouch 100%. However you might be right if you D2 - D1 too late the game writes: "throw kounter"... Probably it does not low profile yet in the first 1-2 frames? Or I dont know lol but experienced.

Okay I labbed my apologize spreading bullshit! Fortunately throws work like in IJ2 as if you do not have frame for that D1 it will not come out and writes throw kounter.
I am pretty sure it was not that way in MKX as my friend always D2 me when I was plus lol. But rather not spread more false info.

So yeah after -5 you can only do crouch to avoid throw or guess with the tech throw. First option is pretty risky lol. Especially against a character who has 9-11F MID launcher and he has absolutely no risk to drop it after -5. D1-D2 can low profile high moves though after -5 if the opponent likes dropping it.

By the way in the lab I could do the situation that after F423 which is -8 on block I did a D1 but probably a bit slower than fastest. Reversal throw whiffed and D1 hit. With a bit slower throw it said "throw kounter". Probably because when the reversal throw came out I was crouching then pressed D1 lol.
But at the end of the day it is also equal to crouching not real D1... good lesson for both side lol.
I am a bit confused though it was not what I expected.
Alright f423 is more minus on block but it somehow gives more pushback then b143 which puts it slightly out of throw range midscreen i believe. I wouldn't be so bold to d1 after it though unless I was desperate. Can't do any testing since I'm not home. All I want for scorpion is some slightly better frame data that's it. I looked at the frames in f423 and it seems it's way easier to hitconfirm with then say b14. I just don't really use it as much since bad frame data scorpion
 

Bliss

Noob
Yo. Been using Scorpion vs. the CPU (since I haven't played online yet).

Been doing: F4, 2, 3 into EX teleport into 4 into EX Spear into 212 for the fatal blow shit around 34% with DOT. Is this Reborn's staple BNB? Of course without the fatal blow you'd want to end with F4, 2, 3 right?

I know F3 is one of his best moves, only -2 on block and a good amount + on hit for the mix-ups.

I don't know if I've been doing this shit right.

I know 2, 1 is good + on hit too.

Doesn't F4, 2, 3 have a gap in it?

Is Scorpion as simple as he seems?