Scorpion General Discussion

[Shirakani]

As I stated in my previous post, misery blade 3 whiffs after b+1,4 and f+4,2 are blocked which leaves you vulnerable for punishment. In order to "get away safe", you need to cancel the misery blade and waste one bar of defensive meter. The teleport cancel performs the same function and provides additional mobility.

The 50/50 mix up out of misery blade is neither safe nor rewarding. Both options are -17 on block and leave Scorpion right next to the opponent.

From my experiences and observations, the variation with the teleport cancel is the best because of its safety and ability to hit-confirm into combos after f+3.

If misery blade did not require meter to be canceled like in the beta, I would be agreeing with you.

Yeah the 3 is going to whiff quite often, more often than not infact. That's why you DELAY it to see what the other guy will do if your initial lead in string is blocked. If your initial string is blocked but you're close, then just stick out the 3 and it'll be blocked but you'll get away safe as its only -2 on block.

Otherwise if you're not within range for it to hit, you cancel into MB, then WAIT and see what they do... Yes I do literally mean stay there in that slow sword draw stance... If they look like they're going to try to punish you then the 3 will either poke them out of their punish or it will trade, worst case is trade... but even trading resets the neutral to 0.

If they don't do anything, it recovers fast enough to make you safe as if they hesitate they WON'T be able to punish it... that poke is flat unpunishable unless they literally hard read it.... you're going to get away with it most of the time.

Absolute absolute worst case, if they DID hard read your 3 or if you just don't have the confidence to continue with the current momentum, then yeah spend the defensive bar and GTFO. But most of the time ppl should not be reading you that easily unless you're letting them.

All that being said yeah it is a shame the cancel is no longer free but meh, if it was it'd be literally overpowered. Look at how some top players are using Liu Kang's stance cancel. You can use MB in a very similar way as they're basically the same.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Shao isn’t a hard MU. He doesn’t have any good mids outside of shoulder charge. Neutral crouch can really blow him up. You want him to use the SC so you can block and punish.

I suggest playing a few games with him to familiarize. I played him for a week, he sucks lol

f4, f34 and db2 ain't bad. Haven't played him long enough but I suppose you could flawless block the hammer from db2 but then again you could just let it land somewhere else and steal a turn.
Also his ji2 is ridiculously good.

Dunno he doesn't seem that bad he just has shit krushing blows and his buffs aren't viable in either variation. You can find setups where you cut air combos short for Risen Emperor dmg buff, but that's losing damage and just banking on the opponent not realizing what's happening.

If they buff his kbs, shorten his buff recovery or make his f3,4 special cancelable, he'd be beast.

 

[OutworldKeith]

f4, f34 and db2 ain't bad. Haven't played him long enough but I suppose you could flawless block the hammer from db2 but then again you could just let it land somewhere else and steal a turn.
Also his ji2 is ridiculously good.

Dunno he doesn't seem that bad he just has shit krushing blows and his buffs aren't viable in either variation. You can find setups where you cut air combos short for Risen Emperor dmg buff, but that's losing damage and just banking on the opponent not realizing what's happening.

If they buff his kbs, shorten his buff recovery or make his f3,4 special cancelable, he'd be beast.

F4 is good until they know what’s up. Jump back punch punish blows up big boots all day.

F34 is decent, but you don’t get much from it. It’s also super easy to flawless block. I’ve done it on accident too many times lol.

Db2 is kinda gimmicky. If they block the initial hit thats a free d2. Trade is in their favor because d2 does more damage.

Shao needs help lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

F4 is good until they know what’s up. Jump back punch punish blows up big boots all day.

F34 is decent, but you don’t get much from it. It’s also super easy to flawless block. I’ve done it on accident too many times lol.

Db2 is kinda gimmicky. If they block the initial bit that a free d2. Trade is in their favor because d2 does more damage.

Shao needs help lol.

Thx for the advices both of you. Yes I labbed Shao and see his flaws - just I probably need to focus more no to fall into the bullshit. Yes I labbed flawless blocking too but I did not start doing it.
I do not really know how to play the match up properly. Trying to be outside/border of his range or rather go in and force poke war, etc (where his bullshit starts lol)?

I usually play defensively in neutral against him then go into offense when I see the opportunity. That can lead both results. I can not manage F4 and he is in lol. Or mess up blocking-punishing his advancing strings.
Or can whiff punish.

I can not really walk back for whiff punish up close as my friend D2|D4 a lot and even if I block D2 it is SAFE in that range lol. All I can do is go in for pressure.

Well I do not say I am losing hard against him but I have no clear gameplan against him, yet. Or at least I feel IT IS NOT the proper way.
Yes I punish DB2 with D2 lol.
But F4 into Jump back punch is new - I will try it.
My friend is a bit random lol - difficult to play against him - he does not care about the risk reward and drop everything - without any respect lol.

Probably my game plan is not bad but should not let him doing bullshit all day and punish properly. Sometimes I can do it and see the surprise lol - but not enough to earn any respect.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Yeah the 3 is going to whiff quite often, more often than not infact. That's why you DELAY it to see what the other guy will do if your initial lead in string is blocked. If your initial string is blocked but you're close, then just stick out the 3 and it'll be blocked but you'll get away safe as its only -2 on block.

Otherwise if you're not within range for it to hit, you cancel into MB, then WAIT and see what they do... Yes I do literally mean stay there in that slow sword draw stance... If they look like they're going to try to punish you then the 3 will either poke them out of their punish or it will trade, worst case is trade... but even trading resets the neutral to 0.

If they don't do anything, it recovers fast enough to make you safe as if they hesitate they WON'T be able to punish it... that poke is flat unpunishable unless they literally hard read it.... you're going to get away with it most of the time.

Absolute absolute worst case, if they DID hard read your 3 or if you just don't have the confidence to continue with the current momentum, then yeah spend the defensive bar and GTFO. But most of the time ppl should not be reading you that easily unless you're letting them.

All that being said yeah it is a shame the cancel is no longer free but meh, if it was it'd be literally overpowered. Look at how some top players are using Liu Kang's stance cancel. You can use MB in a very similar way as they're basically the same.

Did more lab’n with Misery Blade. Pretty much came to the same conclusion. F3 xx MB3 does jail, and offers a frame trap on hit. However, f3 xx MB3 only makes your opponent respect f3, & most players already do lol.

Misery Blade just doesn’t offer much since the cancels aren’t free.

 

[spidey300]

they nerfed misery blade? why would they nerf it when it's not even part of a competitive variation? are you telling me when they add more competitive variations down the line and misery blade gets added into one, that it'll be the nerfed version?

 

[Hor_PeT]

Well if in a tournament grand final Shao Kahn can play his shimmy unsafe game I will give me a bit more time to manage him properly lol.
Well playing like this requires balls but rather "who cares" attitude. I have rather safe mentality and like to punish players like this - just not easy lol.

Btw damn I will just flawless block punish Shao's F4 if not better. I almost always see its coming but maybe I can not jump back or over (into J3 tele) in time. But flawless block is more consistent. If I have 2 bars it's 30%.
It works even on wake up block when Shao uses his advantage for pressure an F4.

I so underuse Mk11 tools so far lol.

I hope it works online as well. In the practice room it is pretty easy to memorize the visual and audio effects to make the flawlessblock. But it does not even matter if online what I see is few frames different - I hope the net code is good for flawless block.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Netcode is amazing. I can flawless block Liu Kang's + string and that Kitana b2 into overhead kb string pretty consistently. I mean they have other options from those strings but I get a big punish at least once a match against those characters because everybody is fishing for kbs like hell.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Netcode is amazing. I can flawless block Liu Kang's + string and that Kitana b2 into overhead kb string pretty consistently. I mean they have other options from those strings but I get a big punish at least once a match against those characters because everybody is fishing for kbs like hell.

Cool next time I will focus on flawless block. Just too much focusing on a string which may never come will affect gameplay at first. E.g. FB Shao's F34 or F4 requires stable muscle memory.
But obviously worth using it to extend the mind game.

After FB Shao's F34 he might never tries again - or try to punish it by cancelling into unsafe special. Or stagger it which is also punishable.

Scorpion's F34 FB is also a mind game against FB opponent. If scorpion is scared enough to drop f34 and always stagger - it will be easier for the defender.
At least I will be afraid of when I see it lol.

I do not have too much online experience but so.far even 1500 game players did not flawless block F34.
I did not either yet lol.

Recently I ran into an Jade player with 1500 matches. When he saw I select Scorpion he selected too and tried to spam me with teleports and other simmys lol. Probably wanted to check if i am a scorpion scrub lol.
Then he switched to Jade and we could play few matches before he quited.

Well I will not abandon Scorpion due to the common hate as I really like his playstyle and character started in mkx. It is just cool that in mk11 he is good and can continue playing with him without too much downside.

 

[Bliss]

I've been using Sub-Zero; but, I want to use other characters too because I like variety. Scorpion seems fun. Is his whole game plan basically just play surprise with your opponent? He seems strong in this game. And I love that shit! Scorpion is usually mid tier and he's finally getting a surplus in a way (to me).

 

[OutworldKeith]

they nerfed misery blade? why would they nerf it when it's not even part of a competitive variation? are you telling me when they add more competitive variations down the line and misery blade gets added into one, that it'll be the nerfed version?

It’s alright bro lol. I think his tournament variations are 2 of the better ones in the game rn.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I've been using Sub-Zero; but, I want to use other characters too because I like variety. Scorpion seems fun. Is his whole game plan basically just play surprise with your opponent? He seems strong in this game. And I love that shit! Scorpion is usually mid tier and he's finally getting a surplus in a way (to me).

If you meant the teleport - not really. But probably 90% of the players think otherwise lol.
My friend told me yesterday he fought only Scorpion but noobs who only teleported lol. Then he plays me and complains about back walk whiff punish haha.
Scorpion's B1 is so good probably due to disjointed hitbox. Even if his D1|D2 other move is active it will not stop a B1 where only the Katana is there. Like it was in MKX Ninjutsu just less range. Maybe it low profiles too.

Different kind of game than Sub Zero but I think both are fun. With Reborn you can play the surprise game as well haha. Scorpion offers good variety of playstyle. Teleport itself is not scrubby if used properly.

 

[fireborg]

would anyone b so cool and give me a short char type and gameplay breakdown for scorp? i think from super little training (never played scorp before) ...whiff punishing with teleport, footsies, bit harder execution on bigger damage combos (buff as well), good walk speed and jumpins, not sure what is the best hit confirm is...would like to play SR

 

[spidey300]

It’s alright bro lol. I think his tournament variations are 2 of the better ones in the game rn.

i mean i definitely wish searing rage could've been in the beta but i won't deny that misery blade was good

 

[Juggs]

I really think Reborn is only really good right now. Obviously it’s good and will remain good if it doesn’t get nerfed, but I think in the long run Searing Rage will be better being able to get more damage. Being able to get 40% off of 1 bar is huge. Of course you need the Burning Spear buff, but I have been working on setups for it. Like as a combo ender for instance, doing f32 xx burning spear buff instead of f32 xx death spin.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I really think Reborn is only really good right now. Obviously it’s good and will remain good if it doesn’t get nerfed, but I think in the long run Searing Rage will be better being able to get more damage. Being able to get 40% off of 1 bar is huge. Of course you need the Burning Spear buff, but I have been working on setups for it. Like as a combo ender for instance, doing f32 xx burning spear buff instead of f32 xx death spin.

I like SR more because I have more options from f3. When it comes down to it, Reborn will have to play more yolo to make the TP’s unpredictable.

 

[spidey300]

I like SR more because I have more options from f3. When it comes down to it, Reborn will have to play more yolo to make the TP’s unpredictable.

I feel like I have to play really random with reborn and I don't like that at all. it feels like a watered down version of misery blade (beta misery blade at least) and I'm just trying to compensate for scorpion's bad frames

 

[spidey300]

one thing I don't like about scorpion is that he has no 3 hitting special cancelable string. I feel like b143 should be one.

 

[Hor_PeT]

one thing I don't like about scorpion is that he has no 3 hitting special cancelable string. I feel like b143 should be one.

Why would you need it? More time to hitconfirm? Or more yolo ender?
B143 is good for hitconfirm but guessing games ends with it with -5 (still guessing game for follow up).
Making it special cancellable would be too much. Or it should be unsafe which is worse.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I like SR more because I have more options from f3. When it comes down to it, Reborn will have to play more yolo to make the TP’s unpredictable.

I agree with the F3 part. More to worry about easier to mess up with the opponent. E.g. after F3 opponent should always block high to cover OH and it opens up more mixup opportunities. Not mentioning the fear factor of F32 even after Using F34 KB.

However I don't agree with Reborn Yolo play. You play the same as with SR with the ability of free escape or better whiff punish tele cancel or yes creating some mixups wit cancel when the opponent is already under pressure.
In that situation a tele cancel has not really more risk than an F32 on read.

I have interesting feeling about the variations. I felt me more safe and conservative with SR as I could bank defensive bar for breakaway and wake up.
But when I played Reborn I also felt me pretty safe and even more free/versatile in the field despite the fact that I had no full def bar all the time.
B14xxaway tele was just pretty good feeling. And even F42 away tele which is fake though.
And I also like the 112 vs 11xxspear bnb ender to even bait the opponent breakaway. Sometimes I do the 112 ender with SR too just for this (insteas of 212+4). With Reborn it is "free" as there is no better lol.

But I obviously downplay SR. Yes there are setups for BS but I rather use OKI enders already as to me it has more potential damage. And I do not really use DS either in combos. However anti air d2 into D1xxDS is cool - easier than D1 xx BF1 lol.
In neutral I just dont like using it but can admit it can be annoying and strong. It is not worth me the risk.

Maybe I bornt to be Reborn lol.
I did not play too much Reborn though and now I am messing with Erron lol. So far scorpion is obviously MY character and I do not think it will change. I am so comfortable with all his current tools and options - this feeling is coming from mkx.

Of course there are other fun characters in the game and it is better to try all of them.

 

[spidey300]

Why would you need it? More time to hitconfirm? Or more yolo ender?
B143 is good for hitconfirm but guessing games ends with it with -5 (still guessing game for follow up).
Making it special cancellable would be too much. Or it should be unsafe which is worse.

I mean it would help hitconfirming. I mean he had 2 of them in mkx and maybe a couple in mk9. there are multiple characters that have it including geras and his ends in like -3. People already talk way too much about nerfing scorpion but how about some fixes to his frame data

 

[Hor_PeT]

I mean it would help hitconfirming. I mean he had 2 of them in mkx and maybe a couple in mk9. there are multiple characters that have it including geras and his ends in like -3. People already talk way too much about nerfing scorpion but how about some fixes to his frame data

Good point. They probably just want stop scorpion's turn after that move. With sc sr can yolo DS lol or reborn tele cancel : which could cause extra stagger option on B143.

Or just they did not care haha.
But it would affect more than just easier hitconfirm I think.

Practice B1 hitconfirm it is not that difficult.

Yeah Geras is top 3 Scorpion is not. But fortunately not much behind with his tools.
I am curious if they nerf scorpion's teleport somehow. On mid level tele amp "50/50" does not exist and there would be no Reborn variation with worse teleport cancel.
If they focus on competitive mode they will not nerf.

Scorpion tele scrubs will terrorize the low level area lol.

By the way I think there is no Scorpion player in summit... ton of Sonya, Erron, Geras, Cassie even Kitana.
I like watching and cheering to my favorite char players meh.
That's why I picked Erron too - it is more fun watching pros if you KNOW the character. +better fighting against it later.

 

[spidey300]

Good point. They probably just want stop scorpion's turn after that move. With sc sr can yolo DS lol or reborn tele cancel : which could cause extra stagger option on B143.

Or just they did not care haha.
But it would affect more than just easier hitconfirm I think.

Practice B1 hitconfirm it is not that difficult.

There wouldn't really be a guessing game if it were still -5. Can't really press buttons from it on block. Special cancelling it on block with scorpions tournament specials is pretty much death. Even with reborn, you'll probably get d1 out of it by your opponent. At this point it's more like just settling for what scorpion has. His big thing is f3 and teleport but outside of that it's bad frame data. No one played him seriously at summit. The way mk is and the dial a combo system you're not really hitconfirming b1. You're really just taking a gamble. It's not like how it is with street fighter. That's where the premise of scorpion being a whiff punisher comes from. It might be possible to hitconfirm with 2 button strings but you still run the risk of being punished with scorpion at least. It's very possible to hit confirm 3 buttons though.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I agree with the F3 part. More to worry about easier to mess up with the opponent. E.g. after F3 opponent should always block high to cover OH and it opens up more mixup opportunities. Not mentioning the fear factor of F32 even after Using F34 KB.

However I don't agree with Reborn Yolo play. You play the same as with SR with the ability of free escape or better whiff punish tele cancel or yes creating some mixups wit cancel when the opponent is already under pressure.
In that situation a tele cancel has not really more risk than an F32 on read.

I have interesting feeling about the variations. I felt me more safe and conservative with SR as I could bank defensive bar for breakaway and wake up.
But when I played Reborn I also felt me pretty safe and even more free/versatile in the field despite the fact that I had no full def bar all the time.
B14xxaway tele was just pretty good feeling. And even F42 away tele which is fake though.
And I also like the 112 vs 11xxspear bnb ender to even bait the opponent breakaway. Sometimes I do the 112 ender with SR too just for this (insteas of 212+4). With Reborn it is "free" as there is no better lol.

But I obviously downplay SR. Yes there are setups for BS but I rather use OKI enders already as to me it has more potential damage. And I do not really use DS either in combos. However anti air d2 into D1xxDS is cool - easier than D1 xx BF1 lol.
In neutral I just dont like using it but can admit it can be annoying and strong. It is not worth me the risk.

Maybe I bornt to be Reborn lol.
I did not play too much Reborn though and now I am messing with Erron lol. So far scorpion is obviously MY character and I do not think it will change. I am so comfortable with all his current tools and options - this feeling is coming from mkx.

Of course there are other fun characters in the game and it is better to try all of them.

Damage, range, & f3 options are my top 3 reasons why V2 is better. Since f3 is Scorp’s main footsies tools I’d give V2 the nod on that alone.

 

[Hor_PeT]

There wouldn't really be a guessing game if it were still -5. Can't really press buttons from it on block. Special cancelling it on block with scorpions tournament specials is pretty much death. Even with reborn, you'll probably get d1 out of it by your opponent. At this point it's more like just settling for what scorpion has. His big thing is f3 and teleport but outside of that it's bad frame data. No one played him seriously at summit. The way mk is and the dial a combo system you're not really hitconfirming b1. You're really just taking a gamble. It's not like how it is with street fighter. That's where the premise of scorpion being a whiff punisher comes from. It might be possible to hitconfirm with 2 button strings but you still run the risk of being punished with scorpion at least. It's very possible to hit confirm 3 buttons though.

B1 hitconfirm is not gamble. Input B14 then hitconfirm to tele or input 3 to be safe (or tele cancel).
So he has a good safe footsie tool which leads into big damage. No doubt others have same too lol. Erron black can even mixup on block lol. But he is better.

On pro level probably there are reliable characters to play with - higher tiers. Against Sonya, Jaqui, Geras Scorpion counter zone tool is not that great so he might able to shut half of the cast down - he cant the top tiers. In footsies others might do the same or better.

That does not mean Scorpion is bad or not fun. In casual a good scorpion is even better as everybody wait for the teleport lol.