Scorpion General Discussion

[Matix218]

Noob's damage is all he has over Scorpion. Scorpion has much better pressure and neutral. Noob's KBs are also trash compared to Scorp's.

Noobs KBs are without question going to become more effective with the next balance patch when they make the requirements more reasonable. I am hoping they reduce the shadow clone kb requirement to 5 and change the b3 1+3 kb requrement from stand block to punish

 

[jrock920]

bnbs

 

[Hor_PeT]

RedRaptor shows pretty good play how to use tele cancel not scrubby way.
Enjoy.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I played with Reborn it is really cool. I did rarely used cancel to get in but rather get out after B14 and finally could use F42 with cancel too.

Game is more fun more variety agility.

I pretty underuse searing rage as rarely use the buff, no ds, only 212+4 but I was pretty okay with 112 ender. At least the opponent does not know if i 112 or 11xxspear lol.

But I found myself use F3 less frequently with him.

 

[Shirakani]

RedRaptor shows pretty good play how to use tele cancel not scrubby way.
Enjoy.

Ah yes, this is really one of the better Reborn examples out there. Some excellent play in that vid.

 

[Matix218]

Ah yes, this is really one of the better Reborn examples out there. Some excellent play in that vid.

I cannot decide which variation I like better. The teleport cancel is awesome but i also like some things about searing rage. I feel like they are both pretty awesome.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Finally decided to start doing kasual matches, so I got to chance to lab with his other specials. Demon Dash is his best non-tournament special. Whiff punisher, fast startup, extends his range.

Misery Blade is butt cheeks. The cancel and stance 3 are the only good things about the stance. The overhead, low, & both amps are full combo punishable. Worst part is you don’t even have to guess. You can interrupt all options with a string lol.

 

[Jaywayday84]

well I mean aesthetically this is probably my 2nd favorite scorpion but mechanically he's pretty underwhelming

He is okay the way he is. He is perfect for whiff punishing aggresive players. You should see how many people calling for him to be nerfed. He is very punishable but can dish it also.

 

[Shirakani]

I cannot decide which variation I like better. The teleport cancel is awesome but i also like some things about searing rage. I feel like they are both pretty awesome.

IMO Reborn is the more difficult of the 2 variations to use. You can never go wrong with just 'more damage on tap' in Searing Rage but to make PROPER use of Reborn's cancels (especially since none of it is 'free') you really need to have a strong neutral game before you can take advantage of it.

Anyone picking Reborn and going in with the mindset of LOL I TELEPOT U HUEHUEHUE is going to get #rekt straight up.

 

[Shirakani]

Misery Blade is butt cheeks. The cancel and stance 3 are the only good things about the stance. The overhead, low, & both amps are full combo punishable. Worst part is you don’t even have to guess. You can interrupt all options with a string lol.

Practice a bit WITH A LIVE OPPONENT with Misery Blade before judging. Unfortunately its one move that cannot be 'labbed' as the entire point of it is to mindfuck the other guy. The point of it tho is that it makes your B14 and F42 completely safe as you can 'get out of jail' totally free with stance 3. The overhead/low is for when you KNOW they're mindfucked and are going for a hit. Otherwise its value is letting you throw out your best midrange strings with pretty much wanton abandon coz you can now get away with it for free.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Practice a bit WITH A LIVE OPPONENT with Misery Blade before judging. Unfortunately its one move that cannot be 'labbed' as the entire point of it is to mindfuck the other guy. The point of it tho is that it makes your B14 and F42 completely safe as you can 'get out of jail' totally free with stance 3. The overhead/low is for when you KNOW they're mindfucked and are going for a hit. Otherwise its value is letting you throw out your best midrange strings with pretty much wanton abandon coz you can now get away with it for free.

It’s nice to have a safe b2, but they can still reversal throw or jab punish all MB’s options from max distance. Even the cancel gives the opponent a free d1 check.

Honestly, I’d rather guess between poke or throw after b143 on block. At least I’ll still have my defensive bars.

 

[M2Dave]

Nevermind Reborn (as that requires defensive meter)... only way for Scorpion to actually be considered 1:1 even ground with Error and Geras is to give him Misery Blade. Then ok, its totally dead even fair.

I recall @Juggs posting that misery blade also costs defensive meter to cancel. The free cancel was removed in the hotfix the first week of the game's release.

Practice a bit WITH A LIVE OPPONENT with Misery Blade before judging. Unfortunately its one move that cannot be 'labbed' as the entire point of it is to mindfuck the other guy. The point of it tho is that it makes your B14 and F42 completely safe as you can 'get out of jail' totally free with stance 3. The overhead/low is for when you KNOW they're mindfucked and are going for a hit. Otherwise its value is letting you throw out your best midrange strings with pretty much wanton abandon coz you can now get away with it for free.

I have not spent too much time testing misery blade (and I am not going to for obvious reasons), but misery blade 3 whiffs after b+1,4 and f+4,2 on block. I am certain f+3 xx misery blade 3 jails, but you can flawless block.

I do not see what is so special about misery blade. Scorpion can already hit-confirm and launch with the teleport cancel.

Launching after a successful hit or staying safe after a blocked f+3 is one of the best aspects of Scorpion's gameplay. The other tournament variation is good but too unsafe.

 

[Shirakani]

I have not spent too much time testing misery blade (and I am not going to for obvious reasons), but misery blade 3 whiffs after b+1,4 and f+4,2 on block. I am certain f+3 xx misery blade 3 jails, but you can flawless block.

I do not see what is so special about misery blade. Scorpion can already hit-confirm and launch with the teleport cancel.

Launching after a successful hit or staying safe after a blocked f+3 is one of the best aspects of Scorpion's gameplay. The other tournament variation is good but too unsafe.

If you're expecting stance 3 to COMBO all the time then yeah you're not going to get much out of it if you're using it like that.

Lets say you stick out a B14 or F42 and its blocked... Ok B14 you can 3 and get away safe... F42 you're generally stuffed. But in either case if they're both blocked, you can cancel into Misery Blade and now ok... if you're within range you can combo the 3 poke and now you're back at neutral. If they're NOT within range of the poke, then don't immediately pick a followup and see what they do! ... If they look like they're hesitating, you can throw the poke and get back to neutral (as if they're hesitating they won't react in time, its too fast). If they're fishing for a punish, hesitating before poking will knock them out of the punish and reset you to neutral as well... congratulations you've gotten away scot free from what usually would be a bad situation. The WORST case situation is it will trade, but even if it trades you're still back at 0 neutral afterwards and not at any sort of frame disadvantage.

You can also immediately follow up a successful poke with another string and now you have the pressure advantage... how many ppl can successfully continue to block if you're going B14 or F42 and then mixing up with Misery Blade's high or low enders randomly after a poke? If you're really in a bad spot, ok spend the defensive meter and you're now safe and GTFO... but for the most part after a few mixups someone is going to eat either the overhead or the low... and you're now in a superior pressuring position... lather rinse repeat until you've forced them to take a lot of unscaled single hit damage OR have gotten a good hitconfirm into a combo.

Misery Blade isn't a silver bullet to free wins like some of Erron's broken shit but it can SERIOUSLY fuck the other guy up if you use it right.

 

[spidey300]

He is okay the way he is. He is perfect for whiff punishing aggresive players. You should see how many people calling for him to be nerfed. He is very punishable but can dish it also.

yeah but the only thing they want nerfed I believe is teleport

 

[Reauxbot]

Is there a discord?

 

[Hor_PeT]

It’s nice to have a safe b2, but they can still reversal throw or jab punish all MB’s options from max distance. Even the cancel gives the opponent a free d1 check.

Honestly, I’d rather guess between poke or throw after b143 on block. At least I’ll still have my defensive bars.

Reborn has safe B2 with away cancel (I did not lab who can punish it but not everybody - it feels pretty safe in the lab less than -10 on far range) but the hitconfirm takes damn good practice and reaction.
I tried to practice a bit but pretty much gave up as I had no patience lol. You input the DB3 but need to judge fast if you press the forward button or amplify.

But if I play Reborn I will probably try to learn it - it is a huge plus - if I have not enough reaction I will accept it and let it do for better younger players.

My friend was mentally destroyed when I did B14xx away tele cancel lol. He used to the fact that it is his turn lol. He could not punish with charge either. And I was pretty comfortable with the "back to neutral" position.
Btw F42xx away tele cancel is a bit fake as 10F counter can hit it. Scorpion's 13F U2 does not hit lol so in mirror it is a thing but match up dependent (Scorp U3 hits it). That's unfortunate lol. Sonya has 8F Erron has 9F U2 lol.

I felt pretty naked without F32 as after I labbed flawless block/F3 throw I was a bit scared using F34/F3 stagger lol (I always expect Sonicfox-semiij undercover who can punish me) - and played more footsies play. Probably it is the good approach as F3 will be figured out anyway and should not be used that often.
RedRaptor did not use it too much either as Biohazard defended it pretty well.

 

[craniumj]

I do that string occasionally just to see him use his wakizashi as well as the katana. Kind of gets to me once in a while that he has two swords but only uses the main katana. I mean... I get it! In actual kenjutsu the wakizashi is basically a 'backup' for if you lose your katana... the ni-toh-ryuu style is pretty uncommon after all and is not necessarily better than wielding a single katana.

But Scorpion isn't supposed to be a samurai damnit!

I don't believe he ever actually uses the short sword and that really that really bums me out. If you're referring to the third hit of b141 then it's his kunai he's using while both sword hits are from the regular sword.

 

[Juggs]

I recall @Juggs posting that misery blade also costs defensive meter to cancel. The free cancel was removed in the hotfix the first week of the game's release.



I have not spent too much time testing misery blade (and I am not going to for obvious reasons), but misery blade 3 whiffs after b+1,4 and f+4,2 on block. I am certain f+3 xx misery blade 3 jails, but you can flawless block.

I do not see what is so special about misery blade. Scorpion can already hit-confirm and launch with the teleport cancel.

Launching after a successful hit or staying safe after a blocked f+3 is one of the best aspects of Scorpion's gameplay. The other tournament variation is good but too unsafe.

Misery Blade was really good in the beta. Since Scorpion got better frame data from the beta, Misery Blade isn’t nearly as good. Plus it now costs defensive meter to do the cancel. This is why I think a good way to balance Reborn is to take out the airthrow and add Misery Blade. Both will pull from the same resource (defensive meter), as well as wakeups costing defensive meter, it will mean he has to do all 3 more sparingly.

But Misery Blade won’t make Scorpion much better. As you said he can already hit confirm (as I’ve noted in this thread). It would just be fun to use, really. I would rather have a Misery Blade+Demon Dash variation, because that would be a lot of fun. But I genuinely think putting tp cancel and misery blade into the same variation will be more balanced.

Personally though, I don’t care what they do. They can nerf the tp cancel and make the tp high if they want. Neither would effect me. I think the tp cancel is overrated tbh, I think Searing Rage variation is better. Being able to get 50% off of 2 bars with no KB’s or without Fatal Blow is huge. Yes you need the burning spear buff to get 50% but if you know how to set it up safely, it shouldn’t be too big of an issue. Plus Searing Rage is more fun to use, for me at least.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Reborn has safe B2 with away cancel (I did not lab who can punish it but not everybody - it feels pretty safe in the lab less than -10 on far range) but the hitconfirm takes damn good practice and reaction.
I tried to practice a bit but pretty much gave up as I had no patience lol. You input the DB3 but need to judge fast if you press the forward button or amplify.

But if I play Reborn I will probably try to learn it - it is a huge plus - if I have not enough reaction I will accept it and let it do for better younger players.

My friend was mentally destroyed when I did B14xx away tele cancel lol. He used to the fact that it is his turn lol. He could not punish with charge either. And I was pretty comfortable with the "back to neutral" position.
Btw F42xx away tele cancel is a bit fake as 10F counter can hit it. Scorpion's 13F U2 does not hit lol so in mirror it is a thing but match up dependent (Scorp U3 hits it). That's unfortunate lol. Sonya has 8F Erron has 9F U2 lol.

I felt pretty naked without F32 as after I labbed flawless block/F3 throw I was a bit scared using F34/F3 stagger lol (I always expect Sonicfox-semiij undercover who can punish me) - and played more footsies play. Probably it is the good approach as F3 will be figured out anyway and should not be used that often.
RedRaptor did not use it too much either as Biohazard defended it pretty well.

Well I only use b2 when I read a wake up attack. I don’t ever use it to get in with Reborn, but it’s an option.

Scorp’s u2 is situational. I found it most useful against Geras because it beats his body splash straight up. Scorp’s u3 is amazing though, so I’m not complaining.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Well I only use b2 when I read a wake up attack. I don’t ever use it to get in with Reborn, but it’s an option.

Scorp’s u2 is situational. I found it most useful against Geras because it beats his body splash straight up. Scorp’s u3 is amazing though, so I’m not complaining.

Well I like launching on flawless block if possible.

What's your feeling about Shao Kahns match up? I feel me a bit struggling in neutral. He has bigger range so footsie range is weird if I want to whiff punish.
When he is in it should be pretty even but I always fall into mistakes due to several Shao Kahns options or even risky d1 xx special cancels. Due to that I am conditioned to block and easy to stagger me.
Damn I probably overcomplicate.

If you guys have any tips I will thank it.

 

[Matix218]

Reborn has safe B2 with away cancel (I did not lab who can punish it but not everybody - it feels pretty safe in the lab less than -10 on far range) but the hitconfirm takes damn good practice and reaction.
I tried to practice a bit but pretty much gave up as I had no patience lol. You input the DB3 but need to judge fast if you press the forward button or amplify.

But if I play Reborn I will probably try to learn it - it is a huge plus - if I have not enough reaction I will accept it and let it do for better younger players.

My friend was mentally destroyed when I did B14xx away tele cancel lol. He used to the fact that it is his turn lol. He could not punish with charge either. And I was pretty comfortable with the "back to neutral" position.
Btw F42xx away tele cancel is a bit fake as 10F counter can hit it. Scorpion's 13F U2 does not hit lol so in mirror it is a thing but match up dependent (Scorp U3 hits it). That's unfortunate lol. Sonya has 8F Erron has 9F U2 lol.

I felt pretty naked without F32 as after I labbed flawless block/F3 throw I was a bit scared using F34/F3 stagger lol (I always expect Sonicfox-semiij undercover who can punish me) - and played more footsies play. Probably it is the good approach as F3 will be figured out anyway and should not be used that often.
RedRaptor did not use it too much either as Biohazard defended it pretty well.

I dont think my 36 year old brain can react fast enough for that b2 hit confirm lol. I will have to play with that later though

 

[Hor_PeT]

I dont think my 36 year old brain can react fast enough for that b2 hit confirm lol. I will have to play with that later though

Lol I am 36 too. Damn 10 years ago I probably could do that but I rather played FPS than fighting games. Fighting games are above 30 lol. Not ideal.
By the way I am a bit happy about new MK11 it feels like a bit retired-friendy with the bit slower animations haha.

My fingers are pretty slow too for example I can not T-bag like madman... I had to give up command grab characters and hellfire scorpion as well. I could do the cancel but it did not feel good on the long run.
E.g. here Erron Black's 21212 it pretty impossible to do - I can do it but far from comfortable and playable level.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Just slide your thumb across the buttons for mashy strings.

Damn Daigo is 39 or 38 or some shit, still winning tournaments. Fighting games are more about anticipation and conditioning than raw reaction anyways.

 

[OutworldKeith]

Well I like launching on flawless block if possible.

What's your feeling about Shao Kahns match up? I feel me a bit struggling in neutral. He has bigger range so footsie range is weird if I want to whiff punish.
When he is in it should be pretty even but I always fall into mistakes due to several Shao Kahns options or even risky d1 xx special cancels. Due to that I am conditioned to block and easy to stagger me.
Damn I probably overcomplicate.

If you guys have any tips I will thank it.

Shao isn’t a hard MU. He doesn’t have any good mids outside of shoulder charge. Neutral crouch can really blow him up. You want him to use the SC so you can block and punish.

I suggest playing a few games with him to familiarize. I played him for a week, he sucks lol

 

[M2Dave]

If you're expecting stance 3 to COMBO all the time then yeah you're not going to get much out of it if you're using it like that.

Lets say you stick out a B14 or F42 and its blocked... Ok B14 you can 3 and get away safe... F42 you're generally stuffed. But in either case if they're both blocked, you can cancel into Misery Blade and now ok... if you're within range you can combo the 3 poke and now you're back at neutral. If they're NOT within range of the poke, then don't immediately pick a followup and see what they do! ... If they look like they're hesitating, you can throw the poke and get back to neutral (as if they're hesitating they won't react in time, its too fast). If they're fishing for a punish, hesitating before poking will knock them out of the punish and reset you to neutral as well... congratulations you've gotten away scot free from what usually would be a bad situation. The WORST case situation is it will trade, but even if it trades you're still back at 0 neutral afterwards and not at any sort of frame disadvantage.

You can also immediately follow up a successful poke with another string and now you have the pressure advantage... how many ppl can successfully continue to block if you're going B14 or F42 and then mixing up with Misery Blade's high or low enders randomly after a poke? If you're really in a bad spot, ok spend the defensive meter and you're now safe and GTFO... but for the most part after a few mixups someone is going to eat either the overhead or the low... and you're now in a superior pressuring position... lather rinse repeat until you've forced them to take a lot of unscaled single hit damage OR have gotten a good hitconfirm into a combo.

Misery Blade isn't a silver bullet to free wins like some of Erron's broken shit but it can SERIOUSLY fuck the other guy up if you use it right.

As I stated in my previous post, misery blade 3 whiffs after b+1,4 and f+4,2 are blocked which leaves you vulnerable for punishment. In order to "get away safe", you need to cancel the misery blade and waste one bar of defensive meter. The teleport cancel performs the same function and provides additional mobility.

The 50/50 mix up out of misery blade is neither safe nor rewarding. Both options are -17 on block and leave Scorpion right next to the opponent.

From my experiences and observations, the variation with the teleport cancel is the best because of its safety and ability to hit-confirm into combos after f+3.

If misery blade did not require meter to be canceled like in the beta, I would be agreeing with you.