Scorpion General Discussion

[Juggs]

B141 is used kinda like bait. After b14 in the b141 string Scorpion looks to kinda pause as if he did just b14. So they let go of block or at least stand block to get ready to punish. And the final 2 hits of b141 come out and are lows, so they get hit. It’s not a great risk/reward because you get just a little damage, and if they block it’s very unsafe. But it’s good for conditioning purposes. But at the same time it’s pointless because b143 is safe so you can just use that if they block the b1. I only ever used b141 in the beta because people didn’t know the MU.

 

[Hor_PeT]

Or just give him decent frames on his strings and/or give him mixups on them.

Scorpion is garbage in this game.

I accidentally found this post in the first page lol. I am pretty sure you changed your mind.

 

[Bar_Bar13]

Nevermind that Noob has far better damage options than Scorpion...

Noob's damage is all he has over Scorpion. Scorpion has much better pressure and neutral. Noob's KBs are also trash compared to Scorp's.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

I accidentally found this post in the first page lol. I am pretty sure you changed your mind.

Very much. I think he's one of the better characters in the game. Not quite top top tier but definitely up there.

I think he's hard to play though. There's a quite a bit of decision making to do when it comes to his combos for example. It's not just "Do max damage". Gotta have combos to bait breakaway and not get punished, combos to close out on the ground, combos to switch sides, combos for safe burning spears. Shit like that. With Skarlet I had like literally 1 combo for every situation, bar the corner.

 

[spidey300]

Last Breath means you can only take 1 more hit of chip from whatever attack. Any string with 3 or more hits can be used to beat the last breath mechanic.

Reality is every string isn’t useful. Example, MK9 Scorpion’s vortex starter string. F214 if I remember correctly. Since f21 xx tp was the vortex starter, you never seen the entire string used. It was literally useless lol.

I get it but it's like what's the difference between me doing string into death spin over b141. At least with maybe d1 or d4 death spin I'm slightly less likely to get punished. The hit advantage on teleport is ass in mk11 so I don't even really vortex with it.

 

[spidey300]

Very much. I think he's one of the better characters in the game. Not quite top top tier but definitely up there.

I think he's hard to play though. There's a quite a bit of decision making to do when it comes to his combos for example. It's not just "Do max damage". Gotta have combos to bait breakaway and not get punished, combos to close out on the ground, combos to switch sides, combos for safe burning spears. Shit like that. With Skarlet I had like literally 1 combo for every situation, bar the corner.

B141 is used kinda like bait. After b14 in the b141 string Scorpion looks to kinda pause as if he did just b14. So they let go of block or at least stand block to get ready to punish. And the final 2 hits of b141 come out and are lows, so they get hit. It’s not a great risk/reward because you get just a little damage, and if they block it’s very unsafe. But it’s good for conditioning purposes. But at the same time it’s pointless because b143 is safe so you can just use that if they block the b1. I only ever used b141 in the beta because people didn’t know the MU.

Yeah that's what I said. That's pretty much it's only use but it's honestly not at all worth it. I just don't see why they took away the ability to special cancel it

 

[Shirakani]

Probably due to entertainment... B141 looks cool too lol.

I do that string occasionally just to see him use his wakizashi as well as the katana. Kind of gets to me once in a while that he has two swords but only uses the main katana. I mean... I get it! In actual kenjutsu the wakizashi is basically a 'backup' for if you lose your katana... the ni-toh-ryuu style is pretty uncommon after all and is not necessarily better than wielding a single katana.

But Scorpion isn't supposed to be a samurai damnit!

 

[spidey300]

I want a straight answer from some devs. Why did they take away scorpions b141 special cancel? @16 Bit

 

[Juggs]

I want a straight answer from some devs. Why did they take away scorpions b141 special cancel? @16 Bit

It was never possible to special cancel b141. Only b1 and b14. b141 and b143 have never been.

 

[OutworldKeith]

So can someone tell me what b141 is for? As far as I can tell since they took out it's special cancel it's probably his most useless string. Sometimes it'll check people trying to act against b14 if they think you'll do just b14 and they end up getting hit by the rest of the string but that is not a risk worth running. Other characters have 3 button strings that are special cancelable. Why can't scorpion? I mean he's about to be inevitably nerfed

B143 is a lot more interesting.

I get it but it's like what's the difference between me doing string into death spin over b141. At least with maybe d1 or d4 death spin I'm slightly less likely to get punished. The hit advantage on teleport is ass in mk11 so I don't even really vortex with it.

There are plenty of ways to get around last breath. It’s not that big a deal unless it’s a close match.

Teleport is +6 because they wanted to get away from the vortex style Scorpion. He’s a mid range whiff punisher now.

 

[OutworldKeith]

It was never possible to special cancel b141. Only b1 and b14. b141 and b143 have never been.

I think they’re talking about the version that the tournament players got to play before the stress test that had Sonya, Raiden, etc.

If you look at ketchup & mustards pre stress test footage it was possible to cancel both those strings.

 

[Shirakani]

It was never possible to special cancel b141. Only b1 and b14. b141 and b143 have never been.

Taking away cancel after 112 though... (or was it 212?) I know we lost a cancel after a 3 hit string.

 

[Juggs]

Taking away cancel after 112 though... (or was it 212?) I know we lost a cancel after a 3 hit string.

Not from the beta. I don’t remember any 3 hit string that you could cancel off the 3rd hit. Idk what the purpose would be anyway. You can hit confirm b1 into b14 cancel. If b1 doesn’t hit you can do b143 on block, it’s -5. You can hit confirm f4 into f42 cancel. If f4 doesn’t hit you can do f423 and it’s safe. You can do the same with 112. 212 is pointless outside of a combo ender.

 

[Shirakani]

Not from the beta. I don’t remember any 3 hit string that you could cancel off the 3rd hit. Idk what the purpose would be anyway. You can hit confirm b1 into b14 cancel. If b1 doesn’t hit you can do b143 on block, it’s -5. You can hit confirm f4 into f42 cancel. If f4 doesn’t hit you can do f423 and it’s safe. You can do the same with 112. 212 is pointless outside of a combo ender.

I forgot what it is we lost... cancel after F34? I know we lost SOMETHING but I can't remember anymore. We definitely lost a cancel path tho.

 

[spidey300]

Not from the beta. I don’t remember any 3 hit string that you could cancel off the 3rd hit. Idk what the purpose would be anyway. You can hit confirm b1 into b14 cancel. If b1 doesn’t hit you can do b143 on block, it’s -5. You can hit confirm f4 into f42 cancel. If f4 doesn’t hit you can do f423 and it’s safe. You can do the same with 112. 212 is pointless outside of a combo ender.

Well I don't know where you've been but in the reveal build. The mk11 reveal build. Scorpions 3rd hit of his b141 was special cancelable. They took it away pretty much making that string useless. B143 I'll give you but f423 is borderline unsafe to use. Now that you're saying 212 is useless outside of combo ender puts you way off base. Once you've used the krushing blow form of it it's useless as an ender but it's +7 yes there's a gap on the last hit but if you manage to get all the way it's pretty useful

 

[spidey300]

I forgot what it is we lost... cancel after F34? I know we lost SOMETHING but I can't remember anymore. We definitely lost a cancel path tho.

The 3rd hit of b141 was special cancelable

 

[spidey300]

But please by all means let other characters run away with 3 hitting cancelable strings or for certain characters 5 hitting

 

[NaughtySenpai]

Jesus, doesn't really matter if you can cancel b141 or not. It's like f3,2. If you land a hit with either of those strings, it's not because you're an amazing player, it's because your opponent isn't familiar with the game.

I don't get why it's so negative though. I mean it's not a good combo filler like f3,2 is. Man I dunno it's got no real purpose at all. Neither has b2 though, since f3 does everything better than that move and isn't punishable on block.

I'd get why Scorpion's strings are so massively negative if they'd include a overhead/low mixup, but there's none of that in Scorpion's strings so you gotta rely on whiff and block punishment for your damage.

 

[Shirakani]

But please by all means let other characters run away with 3 hitting cancelable strings or for certain characters 5 hitting

Yep, totally fair and balanced there. Its always balanced and fair when its OTHER CHARACTERS with good strings/abilities/cancels but the moment Scorpion gets a TINY buff, the entire world screams NERRRRRRRRRRRRRF!

 

[Hor_PeT]

Very much. I think he's one of the better characters in the game. Not quite top top tier but definitely up there.

I think he's hard to play though. There's a quite a bit of decision making to do when it comes to his combos for example. It's not just "Do max damage". Gotta have combos to bait breakaway and not get punished, combos to close out on the ground, combos to switch sides, combos for safe burning spears. Shit like that. With Skarlet I had like literally 1 combo for every situation, bar the corner.

Do not worry that makes Scorpion pretty fun to play. At least you can vary your combos a bit to position yourself easily, bait break away, setup, etc.
I think it is an advantage not a problem.

 

[NaughtySenpai]

What all those insanely good characters like Erron Black, Geras and Sonya have in common are overhead low mixups you just have to deal with and as such can create reliable offense even on patient players. On top of that Black and Geras have insanely safe strings and/or can make unsafe strings safe. Base Scorpion doesn't have any that, so that's why I think Reborn is stronger than SR because he can create more uncomfortable situations for the opponent.

 

[Hor_PeT]

I do that string occasionally just to see him use his wakizashi as well as the katana. Kind of gets to me once in a while that he has two swords but only uses the main katana. I mean... I get it! In actual kenjutsu the wakizashi is basically a 'backup' for if you lose your katana... the ni-toh-ryuu style is pretty uncommon after all and is not necessarily better than wielding a single katana.

But Scorpion isn't supposed to be a samurai damnit!

Haha... I do not really care about the historical truth of the game. For me the max relevance: Ninjutsu had sword - now I have sword too lol.

 

[Hor_PeT]

What all those insanely good characters like Erron Black, Geras and Sonya have in common are overhead low mixups you just have to deal with and as such can create reliable offense even on patient players. On top of that Black and Geras have insanely safe strings and/or can make unsafe strings safe. Base Scorpion doesn't have any that, so that's why I think Reborn is stronger than SR because he can create more uncomfortable situations for the opponent.

Next time show me the Reborn version, too I want to be shocked.
But I could not really manage SR, either, yet. Need more match experience 0-10 matches not too many lol..

 

[Shirakani]

Next time show me the Reborn version, too I want to be shocked.
But I could not really manage SR, either, yet. Need more match experience 0-10 matches not too many lol..

If you think that the teleport is a problem now being able to stagger the meter burn... Reborn allows you to completely be 100% safe by cancelling it outright. You teleport, land RIGHT next to them and are at +0 neutral while they are still probably -10 in 'human reaction time' before realizing you cancelled the teleport.

You can also instantly create space by cancelling the teleport in a different way that makes Scorpion just fly backward to max distance and stop. Naturally Reborn is worthless vs CPU/AI, its purely designed to fight only other people.

Haha... I do not really care about the historical truth of the game. For me the max relevance: Ninjutsu had sword - now I have sword too lol.

Hah. Shinobi don't even use katana, this is the historical truth. Its always only fictional or romanticized versions of shinobi that are depicted with katana (like in Sekiro). The swords that Scorpion had in MK9 and MKX Ninjutsu variant were actually correct.

For MK11 he's still a shinobi but now he's somehow magically trained in proper kenjutsu as well?! I don't mind because the design is really cool. Its very Sekiro like. But its inaccurate AF

 

[Shirakani]

What all those insanely good characters like Erron Black, Geras and Sonya have in common are overhead low mixups you just have to deal with and as such can create reliable offense even on patient players. On top of that Black and Geras have insanely safe strings and/or can make unsafe strings safe. Base Scorpion doesn't have any that, so that's why I think Reborn is stronger than SR because he can create more uncomfortable situations for the opponent.

Gotta mention that Sonya (not sure about Geras or Erron) can POP UP FOR FREE. Nevermind popping up using a special move, she pops up in a normal string for fucking FREE while Scorpion's ONLY popup option is to burn meter.

Totally utterly completely balanced and fair, noooo problem AT ALL according to scrubs here. Yet being able to stagger meter burn teleport for less than a second somehow is unfair, game breaking, way too overpowered and must be nerf'd into the ground.

Nevermind Reborn (as that requires defensive meter)... only way for Scorpion to actually be considered 1:1 even ground with Error and Geras is to give him Misery Blade. Then ok, its totally dead even fair.