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Match-up Discussion RiBBz22's Killer Frost Matchup Chart [Updated: 10/10/13]

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That__John__Guy

That__John__Guy

Patzer
It seems like a KF MU chart really has to account for the stage. It seems like every time 16 Bit and Balrog were getting beat it was to a Power Character on Metropolis Rooftop. Until fully random stage select is used, it is just a fact that Power players are going to pick the stages that disadvantage Frost. It isn't some far-reaching notion that Frost is going to have to fight on disadvantaged stages, it is a hard fact that she'll be there half the time in a tournament. To win a major, she will inevitably face a Black Adam on Rooftop. So far, that has happened every time and has never gone well for KF.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Doombawkz said:
Basically, I'm glad to know that Wing Dings matter in match-ups and its not just me being incompetent and playing the one guy susceptible to it. :(
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well against characters like Aquamang and Frost wingdings aren't as useful as they are in other MU's because they can punish it with with FTD/Iceberg. The catch is they have to know the different timings for the punish. For example, if I jump in escrima and they think im going to throw wingdings, they are going to have to wait a bit and try to catch me on the way down, which means I can just neutral jump and bait them. I could also throw regular wingdings, and then there's a mindgame if I'm going to MB them or not. If they try to punish and I MB'ed them, they will get punished. If they try waiting for the MB, then they miss their opportunity. However the threat is still there so I don't try to go for it often.

TL;DR Wingdings are good in every MU, but how good they are varies.
 
Red Reaper

Red Reaper

The Hyrax Whisperer
xKhaoTik said:
When reo and I played at SJ, we ended the session believing it was 5-5. She wins upclose for sure but he wins from afar. Its a real patient MU and very life lead based. Reo is the only MMH I've played who's given me Trouble on top of that.

She deals with his tele very well, can interrupt that string when he does the wind up punch, punishes his low grab with decent damage into a reset, has to be smart with his wakeup due to the meterless vortex.

He fucks her over as well too. He punishes spike anywhere on the screen with pillar (she can't punish his with spike), punishes dagger with tele, out zones her pretty well and the orbs really hurt her wake ups when set correctly.

This MU could evolve more. MMH is still fairly new so he can either get better or worse over time, and could eventually change the MU #. But as of now, reo and I have it as 5-5.
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Wait... What? You kan punish that spike with Pillar? lol...

I really need to learn this MU.

I actually had anti-wake up stuff against her but you rarely woke up! Haha. You're soo patient.
 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
jonnitti said:
Why do you think Deathstroke vs KF is 6-4? i honestly dont see her being able to punish gunshots from anywhere is really that big of a deal. mostly playing against her seems like a test of reactions and being able to bait slide.
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She beats DS for sure.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
RunwayMafia said:
Uhhh you better keep it real and not lie to Chongo...you are VERY selective of who you play...we have only played IGAU once and now you ignore me online...it's so mean! :)
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LOLOL. I think we have played only like once now that I think about it. Maybe I am playing hard to get with you. We def gotta play more.
 
Chongo

Chongo

Dead Kings Rise
Me and Ribbz just ran a set, and while I was a little rusty and didn't play as well as I usually do, he definitely outplayed me and learned the MU very well.

However, there were both some things we could both work on, so hopefully we continue to play and level up more. I look forward to the next set :)
 
Shazoo757

Shazoo757

Noob
Hey does anybody know how to approach the catwoman MU? Like exactly what can we punish and how do you stop her from starting up her mixup pressure? Her whip negates your ability to dash in on her, her full screen cat dash lets her get in for free.
 
RunwayMafia

RunwayMafia

Shoot them. Shoot them all.
RiBBz22
I just watched your set against Death. Good stuff. I loved your use of D2 and you had good reads. The only thing I noticed was how many oppurtunities you had to shut him down with parry. I believe it was at 23:33 or a match around that mark that you landed like 5 parries...it was fab. ;)
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Chongo said:
Me and Ribbz just ran a set, and while I was a little rusty and didn't play as well as I usually do, he definitely outplayed me and learned the MU very well.

However, there were both some things we could both work on, so hopefully we continue to play and level up more. I look forward to the next set :)
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Yeah it was a really fun set, the connection was actually pretty good (you can normally tell this when parry is actually coming out). I will post the video soon. For some reason off of a jump in I was getting 111 all the time on block and not 111slide. Dunno what was up with that, but chalk it up to turrible execution I suppose.

Shout outs to KH StarCharger. I got to play his Catwoman tonight for the first time in a while and it leveled up hella. The connection was a little rough, but it didn't matter because I was searching for answers for his setups in the first half of the set. GGS man we gotta play again soon.

RunwayMafia said:
RiBBz22
I just watched your set against Death. Good stuff. I loved your use of D2 and you had good reads. The only thing I noticed was how many oppurtunities you had to shut him down with parry. I believe it was at 23:33 or a match around that mark that you landed like 5 parries...it was fab. ;)
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Dude, you would laugh. We had a facebook conversation going while we were playing and I was raging and so salty about parry never coming out. I probably went for about 500 parries during his pressure and landed about 1/500. Go me!

Shazoo757 said:
Hey does anybody know how to approach the catwoman MU? Like exactly what can we punish and how do you stop her from starting up her mixup pressure? Her whip negates your ability to dash in on her, her full screen cat dash lets her get in for free.
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I am not very solid at this MU yet to be honest because no one plays Catwoman in my scene and I don't play a lot of them online. I think right now the best way to approach her is to zone her with daggers since they beat armor moves and make good reads on her way in or try to make a string whiff so you can punish. Her j2 is pretty hard to punish with d2 because its hitbox is mostly vertical, so I will just normally use a MB b3 or f3 to do it.
 
Shazoo757

Shazoo757

Noob
The catwoman matchup is possibly less than 6-4. the one thing that pisses me off is that her j2 into overhead string pushes frost far enough that she cant d1. Also I was noticing something earlier, can flash backdash the reset? Or was it that just the stupid lag?
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
That__John__Guy said:
It seems like a KF MU chart really has to account for the stage. It seems like every time 16 Bit and Balrog were getting beat it was to a Power Character on Metropolis Rooftop. Until fully random stage select is used, it is just a fact that Power players are going to pick the stages that disadvantage Frost. It isn't some far-reaching notion that Frost is going to have to fight on disadvantaged stages, it is a hard fact that she'll be there half the time in a tournament. To win a major, she will inevitably face a Black Adam on Rooftop. So far, that has happened every time and has never gone well for KF.
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I don't think it is possible to account for stages in a MU chart. You have to factor out stage and player and just look at each of the characters' tools. I understand your point that the interactables present a wild card, but it is the KF player's job to know what stages they should be trying to get on, and what they will have to do differently in a match if the stage selection doesn't go their way.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Shazoo757 said:
MMH beats KF slide by throwing out a MB orb on reaction then going into a b3 combo from there. I believe she is pretty screwed in this MU
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On reaction??????????? From what distance???? Within a little bit of full slide range I would probably test my opponent's reactions over and over until they prove it to me.
 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Shazoo757 said:
MMH beats KF slide by throwing out a MB orb on reaction then going into a b3 combo from there. I believe she is pretty screwed in this MU
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Then I suppose I'll try my hand at baiting such with crouchxxiceberg shenenigans. If it's on reaction, that'll mess up their reaction and cause a chain reaction of distraction by Frost's protraction of her limbs as she crouches. Then when they've lost traction of the pace of the action the slide that will catch them will be too quick for reaction.


This is all assuming I haven't already been disqualified for throwing sand in my opponent's eyes.
 
RiBBz22

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
Rickyraws said:
Then I suppose I'll try my hand at baiting such with crouchxxiceberg shenenigans. If it's on reaction, that'll mess up their reaction and cause a chain reaction of distraction by Frost's protraction of her limbs as she crouches. Then when they've lost traction of the pace of the action the slide that will catch them will be too quick for reaction.


This is all assuming I haven't already been disqualified for throwing sand in my opponent's eyes.
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But....don't we all already know the standard punish for your opponent throwing something in your eyes??

The punish is at about 1:40.

 
Rickyraws

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Your punish assumes I have meter for ex scream.

In which case, wouldn't I just spend the meter to ex dance?

 
xKhaoTik

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Shazoo757 said:
Hey does anybody know how to approach the catwoman MU? Like exactly what can we punish and how do you stop her from starting up her mixup pressure? Her whip negates your ability to dash in on her, her full screen cat dash lets her get in for free.
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Whips don't mean anything. Low whip is punished my slide or spike on block and if she whiffs any whip, you can punish.

MB cat dash does not get her in for free. It's fun combo punishable by 111 slide.

Just keep her out. If she's evading your daggers, use spike as she's coming down.
 
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