Proposed Nerf Discussion

[Vengeance135]

Yeah but the point is if you read a F2 after a F3 while Supes has trait using super is the wrong option as you know you'll get beat so you haven't made the right read. In fact you made the wrong one

Hey you're absolutely right lol as i said before, it is the wrong option. My thing was supermans trait shouldn't have both armor break properties and a damage buff with no repercussions. That's all I'm saying lol it's just my personal opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and that's completely cool lol

 

[Barrogh]

I can’t even name a person that’s punishing it consistently, don’t you think that’s a sign it’s dumb?

I think at this point it's safe to say that not being entitled to punishes is a running theme of I2.

 

[The_Tile]

Hey you're absolutely right lol as i said before, it is the wrong option. My thing was supermans trait shouldn't have both armor break properties and a damage buff with no repercussions. That's all I'm saying lol it's just my personal opinion. I don't expect everyone to agree with me and that's completely cool lol

Yeah I do understand your opinion, the armour breaking is a little stupid but your reasoning behind it wasn't very sound which was what people were picking at lol

 

[Vengeance135]

Yeah I do understand your opinion, the armour breaking is a little stupid but your reasoning behind it wasn't very sound which was what people were picking at lol

Yeah I'm not the greatest at explaining things I'm told lol

 

[South]

I can’t even name a person that’s punishing it consistently, don’t you think that’s a sign it’s dumb? And again just confirm b12 and 21 into breath. Why does she need to be safe on a 7 frame low combo starter that also low profiles?

It doesn't need to be a high that's dumb ! Make the gap a 8f gap so 6/7f pokes can punish it that way her meta stays the same and also forces her to use full string more while also toning down her pressure drastically while making the move more of a hit confirm/ condition tool... making it a high does nothing but give opponents free punishand also no use for supergirl

 

[Invincible Salads]

She's not too Overpowered TBH, just has too many tools that can be too strong.

That said I have changes that would help tone her down but not kill the character.

-breath is clashable
- Trait uses up more of the meter and the trait recharges slower (3 shots instead of 5 when rapid fired)
- Less hit advantage on MB Breath
-increased hurtbox on d1 to prevent low profiling
-less hit advantage on b123
-112 becomes 0 on block instead of +3
B12xx breath is now a 7 frame gap.

no bigger gap, you forget mashing d1 os is a thing, don't agree with it, and the b123 hit advantage change seems arbitrary as fuck. And i don't get why the hit advantage on mb breath needs to be changed, they're gonna get combo'd anyways, why does it matter?

and also, you know theres a gap between 11(2) right? back dashable

 

[DarksydeDash]

no bigger gap, you forget mashing d1 os is a thing, don't agree with it, and the b123 hit advantage change seems arbitrary as fuck. And i don't get why the hit advantage on mb breath needs to be changed, they're gonna get combo'd anyways, why does it matter?

and also, you know theres a gap between 11(2) right? back dashable

7 frame normals trade with breath in her favor from gaps, even 6 frame normals require precise timing to avoid the trade. B123 is a HDK on airborne opponents where she gets to go for a free IA dash into an ambiguous jump normal. This is especially dangerous in the corner. The only way to avoid this is by guessing what side she is on and waking up/blocking, or delay wakeup in which she gets free oki. The hit advantage on MB breath is to stop her from being able to build meter and get a full bnb off a sideswitch. She already has F3 for side switches. (Ex: B12xxbreath, F3, dash under, B1, B2, 123) She doesn't need to float, air dash, and whiff an air grab to build extra meter while side switching and still have a million years for a full combo.

A character with all these tools and amazing mids does not need plus frames. It doesn't matter when there is a gap if she gets you in the corner or starts staggering with 11. Gaps don't matter if she can cover them up with safe specials.

 

[Invincible Salads]

7 frame normals trade with breath in her favor from gaps, even 6 frame normals require precise timing to avoid the trade. B123 is a HDK on airborne opponents where she gets to go for a free IA dash into an ambiguous jump normal. This is especially dangerous in the corner. The only way to avoid this is by guessing what side she is on and wakinngup/blocking, or delay wakeup in which she gets free oki. The hit advantage on MB breath is to stop her from being able to build meter and get a full bnb off a sideswitch. She already has F3 for side switches. (Ex: B12xxbreath, F3, dash under, B1, B2, 123) She doesn't need to float, air dash, and whiff an air grab to build extra meter while side switching and still have a million years for a full combo.

still don't see the b123 as being a big deal, so i won't agree with that nerf at all, and like i said, mashing d1 option select being a thing in this game, no i don't think the gap for b12~breath should be made bigger, because then everyone can just mash d1 whenever she does that string.

bigger hurtbox on d1? sure that's fine.

 

[DarksydeDash]

still don't see the b123 as being a big deal, so i won't agree with that nerf at all, and like i said, mashing d1 option select being a thing in this game, no i don't think the gap for b12~breath should be made bigger, because then everyone can just mash d1 whenever she does that string.

B123 has no gap and lets her have the strongest oki the game next to Catwoman because unless you delay wakeup, it is essentially a psudeo vortex. If you're doing B12xx breath on block you should be blown up heavily for it because if your opponent is not ready, you can make it 100% safe for a bar or commit into b123 and be safe anyway. Hell, you can just do any part of the string to mixup the gap. If a d1 trades Supergirl's breath, she gets to jail into a jump in and build even more meter or jail into her trait for monster chip damage, But I guess that's "no big deal" either huh?

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

still don't see the b123 as being a big deal, so i won't agree with that nerf at all, and like i said, mashing d1 option select being a thing in this game, no i don't think the gap for b12~breath should be made bigger, because then everyone can just mash d1 whenever she does that string.

bigger hurtbox on d1? sure that's fine.

Mashing D1 OS only works against staggers since there's no precise timing needed, against a gap between a string you can't just mash, it's inconsistent, especially if the gap is this tight. You won't OS a poke against this lol... good luck with that.

Having 1 more frame in that gap would only make EVERYONE able to punish it on a read, you wouldn't be able to OS a poke even then.

 

[EMPRESS_SunFire]

I'd just make breath 1 or 2 frames slower, make it never be + on block and make MB trait take a bar of meter.
Let her keep everything else. She would probably still be top tier but a bit more honest

 

[Invincible Salads]

B123 has no gap and lets her have the strongest oki the game next to Catwoman because unless you delay wakeup, it is essentially a psudeo vortex. If you're doing B12xx breath on block you should be blown up heavily for it because if your opponent is not ready, you can make it 100% safe for a bar or commit into b123 and be safe anyway. Hell, you can just do any part of the string to mixup the gap. If a d1 trades Supergirl's breath, she gets to jail into a jump in and build even more meter or jail into her trait for monster chip damage, But I guess that's "no big deal" either huh?

whats the point? she's already negative on mb breath anyways, the big issue with it is her d1 low profiling making counterpoking difficult. And b123 not having a gap is precisley the problem, they can just hold down and mash d1, if she does b123 then it'd be safe and nothing comes out, if she did b12 into breath, with the bigger gap, the d1 would come out and interrupt her, effectively screwing over her upclose game, what part of OS do you not get?

having oki off her b123? its a knock down? lots of charcters get oki off a knock down, again i don't see an issue with it

maybe lower her damage but not quite to pre patch levels, somewhere between where she is now and where she was then.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Mashing D1 OS only works against staggers since there's no precise timing needed, against a gap between a string you can't just mash, it's inconsistent, especially if the gap is this tight. You won't OS a poke against this lol... good luck with that.

Having 1 more frame in that gap would only make EVERYONE able to punish it on a read, you wouldn't be able to OS a poke even then.

even if thats the case then, its still an uneeded change, she can be changed in other ways without having to do that, you said your self making sure the mb breath is never plus, which means probably reducing its block stun, couple that with a larger hurtbox on her d1 and look at that, she's Actually -4 now and its really your turn

 

[Arzumis]

the big issue is breath. Make it so that she's always negative from mb breath. This can be done a number of ways, making it more negative on block, reduce pushback, maybe do both. Also, I think everyone should be able to poke out her d1 breath, and b12 breath .Making breath slower or changing the frame data on d1 and b12 a little bit. Anything else is asking for too much.

 

[Cursa]

the big issue is breath. Make it so that she's always negative from mb breath. This can be done a number of ways, making it more negative on block, reduce pushback, maybe do both. Also, I think everyone should be able to poke out her d1 breath, and b12 breath .Making breath slower or changing the frame data on d1 and b12 a little bit. Anything else is asking for too much.

I think the pushback of breath is a big deal on her.

She only needs like 1 of her tools nerfed really

 

[Arzumis]

I think the pushback of breath is a big deal on her.

She only needs like 1 of her tools nerfed really

IF everyone can poke and beat her breath I guess its block adv could stay

 

[Cursa]

IF everyone can poke and beat her breath I guess its block adv could stay

Agreed

 

[Two First Names]

It doesn't need to be a high that's dumb ! Make the gap a 8f gap so 6/7f pokes can punish it that way her meta stays the same and also forces her to use full string more while also toning down her pressure drastically while making the move more of a hit confirm/ condition tool... making it a high does nothing but give opponents free punishand also no use for supergirl

Supergirl isn’t built around having a move that should be easily punishable be not punishable. Supergirl would not be useless if breath was a high. She’d be mid tier at the worst. It sounds like we both want her to not be doing breath on block, just you want that to be difficult and I want it to be easy. So I don’t want to waste my time arguing this if the end result is the same

 

[KHTC Takgillo]

Mashing D1 OS only works against staggers since there's no precise timing needed, against a gap between a string you can't just mash, it's inconsistent, especially if the gap is this tight. You won't OS a poke against this lol... good luck with that.

Having 1 more frame in that gap would only make EVERYONE able to punish it on a read, you wouldn't be able to OS a poke even then.

Liar liar pants on fire I agree the gap should be made bigger but it can easily be Osed with a 6f button

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Make d1 have no pushback and not combo into breath, and make the gap on b12 breath 9f, then we'll see who actually knows how to play supergirl, and who is just face mashing their pads. (which is all of them btw)

Or make breath only able to be meter burned on hit.
Slow down the lasers and make b123 -6 not -4

IDC, if they can butcher deadshot like that, supergirl can get rekt too. Shes everywhere, no weakness, super strong if you dont know how to play the game, and super annoying to play against even if you do know how to play the game. Doesnt encourage any sort of solid fundamental play despite the fact thats what her design looked to be based on.

 

[MysTiiK_V]

Posted a matchup chart a while back. Not gonna post another one but I think she loses only two matchups 6-4 and a handful of 5-5s are hard but everything is manageable. I think catwoman red hood and supergirl are the only characters in the game you could exclusively main in tourney and do somewhat well. Dr fate might be top 5 but you still need a backup.

Supergirl is giving people a hard time and everyone is screaming for nerfs, and my proposed nerfs are not what people thing, but I urge you to consider it.

B12 breath and d1 breath each have a gap to accommodate 8f/9f pokes respectively. If every character could full combo her gaps, then it would balance her out without changing her playstyle. Too many people, myself included, are doing b12 breath on characters that should be able to interrupt but are fearful of doing so.

I welcome any thoughts or other proposed changes.

im guessing you think red hood is top 3, but i highly disagree. My top 3 would be Supergirl, Black Adam, and Catwoman. Adam is just too strong.

 

[MysTiiK_V]

I think nerfing trait kills but still allowing for any other chipout would be somewhat silly. If Crow wasn't chipping your last 2% with trait, or Ivy, or Atrocitus, or Darkseid, or Swamp Thing, or Black Adam (and so on), it would just be a meter burned move to do the same. Granted, I don't think Crow's trait should have ANY affect while you are hurting him. I think that if you manage to land a long combo that disables trait and Oki him, you deserve a comeback. Chipout? Sure. Kamikaze wins? Pretty cheesey.

I think bigger gaps for Supergirl would be fantastic. It would encourage smarter play. Her lasers are fine, she should just have less access to them. Like... A lot less. Throwing out a laser in neutral should feel like coming off of a valuable resource. It would keep them as a counter zoning tool and would make laserwalk a bigger cash out.

Catwoman would be fine if her hurtbox issues were fixed. Her B3 is not ok. Her backdash is also a little nuts. I don't think her plus frames need nerfing if those happen.

Black Adam's plus frames are kinda ridiculous, there's no reason to have something be plus all the way up into the 20s. That's some prepatch Lao BS. His MB divekick should also be minus from every height and maybe startup just a few frames slower. Possibly make black magic more minus? I think a fullscreen combo starter should warrant significant risk.

Aside from all that, maybe add a little more recovery to Hellboy's gun in the style of Red Hood's gun. It's a little too good right now.

agree with all of this, especially the adam changes, cuz omfg I cannot stand Black adam lol.

 

[MysTiiK_V]

There's almost no point in her having a trait bar because it recharges so fast and a shot uses so little. She may as well just have unlimited access (unless ofc she does the big laser thing).

Laser uses more meter and/or trait recharges slower.

Increased recovery on her dash spin move thing.

Reduce walk speed.

Increase damage scaling when using her air float thing mid combo. This would still give her high mid screen damage, but tones it down a bit in the corner with the loops.

Slower start up on breath so its easier to interrupt.

very reasonable

 

[Superman64]

I think this thread needs to be shut down all it is here for people to complain for needs like first it was Supergirl now Catwoman, vane, Superman, BA, ect. Shut up and play the game

 

[ClayW]

im guessing you think red hood is top 3, but i highly disagree. My top 3 would be Supergirl, Black Adam, and Catwoman. Adam is just too strong.

I actually don’t, but red hood is very well rounded. Black Adam is also a character that you could main 100%, forgot about him.