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Proposed Nerf Discussion

South

South

I'd rather SHOW than TELL ~ Poison Ivy
I've played just2swift before Darkseid vs Adam & he does exceptionally well in the mu I'm pretty sure he's played kayy9 black Adam his kayy9 black Adam is way better than mines so every black Adam slander post is irrelevant when concerning just2swift & that's big facts
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
just_2swift said:
Nope. You and your mystic friend have a vendetta against Adam and this is confirmation of that. This reminds me of the temp Lao witch Hunt of mkx. Where he was fine at +12 but ppl didn't want ex spin to launch anymore lol I'll never forget that. But scorps hellfire active frames went untouched. Same thing will happen again in i2. Nerf this nerf that then characters like Robin will be top. He's safe on pretty much everything and ppl are fine with it.
Click to expand...
Vendetta against Adam? Dude, I already told you my main 6/4s him and I'm well aware of his weaknesses, I do fine lol. There are some things I would change about Scarecrow as well like the buffer window for a B/F3 between a D1 and a command grab being larger. Thinking that a tool should be balanced isn't some witch hunt and I already admitted my bias.

Also, wat? Robin safe on everything? Should, um... Should I go into this with specifics or just say "no?" I'm curious what you think he's safe on.
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
just_2swift said:
Nope. You and your mystic friend have a vendetta against Adam and this is confirmation of that. This reminds me of the temp Lao witch Hunt of mkx. Where he was fine at +12 but ppl didn't want ex spin to launch anymore lol I'll never forget that. But scorps hellfire active frames went untouched. Same thing will happen again in i2. Nerf this nerf that then characters like Robin will be top. He's safe on pretty much everything and ppl are fine with it.
Click to expand...
Vendetta against Adam? Dude, I already told you my main 6/4s him and I'm well aware of his weaknesses, I do fine lol. There are some things I would change about Scarecrow as well like the buffer window for a B/F3 between a D1 and a command grab being larger. Thinking that a tool should be balanced isn't some witch hunt and I already admitted my bias.

Also, wat? Robin safe on everything? Should, um... Should I go into this with specifics or just say "no?" I'm curious what you think he's safe on.
 
Cursa

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Again

Why we talking about adam.

This thread has been derailed so hard i don't even know what's happening anymore
 
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Cursa

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
just_2swift said:
Nope. You and your mystic friend have a vendetta against Adam and this is confirmation of that. This reminds me of the temp Lao witch Hunt of mkx. Where he was fine at +12 but ppl didn't want ex spin to launch anymore lol I'll never forget that. But scorps hellfire active frames went untouched. Same thing will happen again in i2. Nerf this nerf that then characters like Robin will be top. He's safe on pretty much everything and ppl are fine with it.
Click to expand...
I am being the biggest hypocrite by not talking about SG, but why wouldn't robin be safe on everything, nearly every rush down character is safe on everything, some are even plus, and he has no mix until he gets his first hit.

Hell, most zoners are safe on everything.
 
Thundergodd

Thundergodd

Mortal
foxof42 said:
Vendetta against Adam? Dude, I already told you my main 6/4s him and I'm well aware of his weaknesses, I do fine lol. There are some things I would change about Scarecrow as well like the buffer window for a B/F3 between a D1 and a command grab being larger.
Click to expand...
Awesome. Just go to the Scarecrow section and make a thread asking for nerfs. If you need us to back you up for those Scarecrow nerfs, just holla and we'll be there.....
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Cursa said:
Again

Why we talking about adam.

This thread has been derailed so hard i don't even know what's happening anymore
Click to expand...
I actually think it derailed immediately from Supergirl and became a more general top tier nerf discussion from the third post.

RevetLeafing said:
Catwoman: 1 f2 is now -5
Walk Speed Toned down

Supergirl: Lasers no longer knock down
Teleport is now a splat knock down unless EX

Black Adam: Trait no longer Kills
Chipped down some of the plus frames he has

Scarecrow: Trait no longer Kills
Click to expand...
Clearly it's Revet's fault lol.
 
Cursa

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
Is she even like op anymore like I actually don't know because I always come across some good super girl player who just destroys me and I start crying for me nerfs.

Then I get a wifi super girl who quits before her first health bar because raw tele didn't work 3 times in a row.

It's like pre-patch batman where you found some good ones who were hard to beat and then some other one who thought just mashing J2/D2/Batarang/trait would win them the game
 
foxof42

foxof42

Thanksgiving corner game, going ham and stuffing
Cursa said:
Is she even like op anymore like I actually don't know because I always come across some good super girl player who just destroys me and I start crying for me nerfs.

Then I get a wifi super girl who quits before her first health bar because raw tele didn't work 3 times in a row.

It's like pre-patch batman where you found some good ones who were hard to beat and then some other one who thought just mashing J2/D2/Batarang/trait would win them the game
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I hear you. I think for some it just all boils down to MB breath being too good as an easily hit confirmed plus launcher. But it can't *just* be that, because other characters have that as well (Scarecrow, Firestorm, Swamp Thing, Batman) but don't get as much flack for it. Could it be that we all know it's minus AF and are frustrated about the 50/50 of punishing it or getting combo'd ourselves? Could it be that it comes off of a very good advancing mid/low string? Is it because she has this in conjunction with other tools like her trait?

Maybe it's all of it. Maybe all of it contributes to the idea that you don't have to work as hard to get things to happen.

The only thing I care about is making her weaknesses more consistent across all MUs. I want to be able to expose her gaps with *every* character, not just a few. For example, Catwoman can indiscriminately mash D2 against her breath pressure because the MB will whiff. Like... Wat. Maybe remove that? It's that or give it to everyone.
 
Cursa

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
foxof42 said:
I hear you. I think for some it just all boils down to MB breath being too good as an easily hit confirmed plus launcher. But it can't *just* be that, because other characters have that as well (Scarecrow, Firestorm, Swamp Thing, Batman) but don't get as much flack for it. Could it be that we all know it's minus AF and are frustrated about the 50/50 of punishing it or getting combo'd ourselves? Could it be that it comes off of a very good advancing mid/low string? Is it because she has this in conjunction with other tools like her trait?

Maybe it's all of it. Maybe all of it contributes to the idea that you don't have to work as hard to get things to happen.

The only thing I care about is making her weaknesses more consistent across all MUs. I want to be able to expose her gaps with *every* character, not just a few. For example, Catwoman can indiscriminately mash D2 against her breath pressure because the MB will whiff. Like... Wat. Maybe remove that? It's that or give it to everyone.
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Well I've been in the lab a little and I don't know why this never occurred to be before...
I now just neutral jump if she MB breath as robin. If she goes for D1 after it then it whiffs and I punish into 45%. Can then condition her to do something like D2 after breath instead which is minus AF and punishable, so she has to read that.

And even with her doing D2, I imagine I could probably just do J3 maybe since robins J3 has a massive hit box. I get this probably wouldn't work with some characters i.e. I imagine swamp thing and Grodd would have a rough time with their floaty jumps, but that's my temporary solution.

Also I know what you mean about the plus part, I noticed it only feels like that if she extends the breath for the full duration, because if she goes B12xxMBBreath on block, and extends it for the full duration, I can't punish with Robin's D1 (6 frames) if she does her D1 (7 frames). My D1 whiffs, originally because I thought I was too far away. The real reason? Her D1 low profiles mine IF she abuses the pushback on breath.
 
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CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
In my opinion, people are misunderstanding the intended tradeoff on breath. Imo the penalty for using SG’s breath on block should be two things:

1) She needs to spend a bar of meter to stay safe on block, since it’s a launcher
2) Her turn is over, and you can now do what you want to do afterwards

The reason #2 isn’t working as intended is, in my opinion (I could be wrong) an unintended consequence of interactions between changing frame data on the hold, hitboxes causing things to connect on different frames, etc.

So imo the solution is to make it so that MB breath is always negative. If it was consistently say, -5 on everyone, then she loses the bar, and you know it’s your turn and can proceed with your offense. If you need to lessen the pushback a little, fine.

If lasers are too oppressive then make them slower, or with a bit more recovery.

It’d start with this. Prepatch damage is too far I think, but a middle ground between her original and current damage (i.e. the subtle, few % damage buff we presumed she’d get in the first patch) is fine.

The ironic thing about the community is that they’ll ask for 50 nerfs, but then blame NRS for “over-nerfing” afterwards, and use made-up phrases like “tier shifting” to criticize the company’s decisions. Imo, you have to be willing to own the results of your own hysteria. Can’t cry “omg broke broke”and then complain when significant changes are made.

If you ask for 10 Supergirl nerfs, and she receives a bevy of adjustments and becomes mid tier, just own it and move on. Balancing games is hard, and such is life.
 
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thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
CrimsonShadow said:
In my opinion, people are misunderstanding the intended tradeoff on breath. Imo the penalty for using SG’s breath on block should be two things:

1) She needs to spend a bar of meter to stay safe on block, since it’s a launcher
2) Her turn is over, and you can now do what you want to do afterwards

The reason #2 isn’t working as intended is, in my opinion (I could be wrong) an unintended consequence of interactions between changing frame data on the hold, hitboxes causing things to connect on different frames, etc.

So imo the solution is to make it so that MB breath is always negative. If it was consistently say, -5 on everyone, then she loses the bar, and you know it’s your turn and can proceed with your offense. If you need to lessen the pushback a little, fine.

If lasers are too oppressive then make them slower, or with a bit more recovery.

It’d start with this. Prepatch damage is too far I think, but a middle ground between her original and current damage (i.e. the subtle, few % damage buff we presumed she’d get in the first patch) is fine.

The ironic thing about the community is that they’ll ask for 50 nerfs, but then blame NRS for “over-nerfing” afterwards, and use made-up phrases like “tier shifting” to criticize the company’s decisions. Imo, you have to be willing to own the results of your own hysteria. Can’t cry “omg broke broke”and then complain when significant changes are made.

If you ask for 10 Supergirl nerfs, and she receives a bevy of adjustments and becomes mid tier, just own it and move on. Balancing games is hard, and such is life.
Click to expand...
I don't think people are asking for 50 concurrent nerfs, more like a mixture of a few of them. She's incredibly versatile and good in so many ways that there are countless ways to tackle nerfing her.
 
Thundergodd

Thundergodd

Mortal
MysTiiK_V said:
ughhh, where does it say proposed nerfs for supergirl at? cuz i dont see it.
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Yeeahhh....

Sure it makes sense to bring in Adam, even though the the person who started this thread talked about Supergirl, in a Supergirl section. Yet, YOU started the Adam bashing.

@just_2swift was right, you probably did get curb-stomped by an Adam player.

Kid, take da hit and move on....
 
Cursa

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
STK said:
Wasn't her only noteworthy changes since the games been out the damage buff? I don't think she got anything else. The damage reduction would put her back to nothing.

Beside making a bigger gap in b12 breath it would be too much to take anything from her. She just shouldn't get anything else.

Also making MB trait high would also be wack since it takes meter. Maybe a chip reduction??
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I thought MB trait didn't use meter

I think her only major change was her damage, but I'm not too sure, that was ages ago and I rarely found any SG players then. As far as I'm aware though, it seems like lack of damage was her only real weakness before that patch.

What @CrimsonShadow said it correct though. She needs 1 thing nerfed. Nothing she does is really overpowered but I think it's pretty collectively agreed that she has either 0 or close to 0 losing MU's, which is a pretty big deal in the current state of the game where counter picking is pretty effective.
 
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MysTiiK_V

MysTiiK_V

"For Mother Nature"
Thundergodd said:
Yeeahhh....

Sure it makes sense to bring in Adam, even though the the person who started this thread talked about Supergirl, in a Supergirl section. Yet, YOU started the Adam bashing.

@just_2swift was right, you probably did get curb-stomped by an Adam player.

Kid, take da hit and move on....
Click to expand...
love how all the adam players like to defend him so bad, cuz they know their character going to get some changes lol, its also funny how I didn't even start it, I just added my thoughts to other players that were also complaining about adam.
 
Thundergodd

Thundergodd

Mortal
MysTiiK_V said:
love how all the adam players like to defend him so bad, cuz they know their character going to get some changes lol, its also funny how I didn't even start it, I just added my thoughts to other players that were also complaining about adam.
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@just_2swift isn’t an Adam player but he defends Adam.

So much for that “all the Adam players” junk.....
 
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