Proposed Nerf Discussion

[Cursa]

Can swamp things trait kill?

 

[LaidbackOne]

There's almost no point in her having a trait bar because it recharges so fast and a shot uses so little. She may as well just have unlimited access (unless ofc she does the big laser thing).

Laser uses more meter and/or trait recharges slower.

Increased recovery on her dash spin move thing.

Reduce walk speed.

Increase damage scaling when using her air float thing mid combo. This would still give her high mid screen damage, but tones it down a bit in the corner with the loops.

Slower start up on breath so its easier to interrupt.

What is wrong wit her bf3?
You can easily punish it with meterburn b3.
I know it doesn't have much recovery but I don't see the problem since it has 'slow' startup frames. Last thing which should be nerfed about this character is this move.

 

[colby4898]

What is wrong wit her bf3?
You can easily punish it with meterburn b3.
I know it doesn't have much recovery but I don't see the problem since it has 'slow' startup frames. Last thing which should be nerfed about this character is this move.

I just think it should be easier to punish on whiff. She already has such good mobility with walk speed and air dashes I dont think she needs this. She can just whiff this, stop infront of your face and if you try to punish her you're probs gonna get d1'd into full combo.

 

[South]

From my experience if I try and DP and she MBs the breath then I just get frozen and combo'd.

You can os it like buff the input and if she does mb it won't come out but if she doesn't it'll punish

 

[South]

Why are people saying make her d1 startup slower ? It's ALREADY 7f considering her 6f s1 and 9f b1 just make the hitbox bigger n leave it 7f that way she doesn't low profile? That's only logical right...

I main supergirl (til Enchantress comes out)
All she needs is
- B12... D1... into ice breathe to have a 7f gap consistently!
• reason : most characters have 6f d1 or a 7f d1 that'll allow a counter poke or full combo punish!
• rebuttal : reduce hit stun on (non mb breathe) so she can't dash up and continue a combo on trades

- make her lasers use more trait !
• reason : she basically can out zone some zoners because her trait lasers take no meter
• rebuttal : in turn now she should have 3 lasers instead 5 before using all meter, which will allow less braindead counter zoning

That's all she needs!

 

[Cursa]

Why are people saying make her d1 startup slower ? It's ALREADY 7f considering her 6f s1 and 9f b1 just make the hotbox bigger n leave it 7f that way she doesn't low profile? That's only logical right...

I main supergirl (til Enchantress comes out)
All she needs is
- B12... D1... into ice breathe to have a 7f gap consistently!
• reason : most characters have 6f d1 or a 7f d1 that'll allow a counter poke or full combo punish!
• rebuttal : reduce hit stun on (non mb breathe) so she can't dash up and continue a combo on trades

- make her lasers use more trait !
• reason : she basically can out zone some zoners because her trait lasers take no meter
• rebuttal : in turn now she sound have 3 lasers instead 5 before using all meter, which will allow less braindead counter zoning

That's all she needs!

I think I'd be alright with B12 having no gap but I feel like D1 Breath should at the very least
Her trait seems fine to me but if you're playing a zoner type I can see why it might be considered a little good

 

[Two First Names]

Why don’t we just make breath and meterburn breath high. That makes her a lot less potato by making her have to hit confirm and makes her breath being plus not a big thing.

 

[South]

Why don’t we just make breath and meterburn breath high. That makes her a lot less potato by making her have to hit confirm and makes her breath being plus not a big thing.

Who's man is this?

 

[Two First Names]

Who's man is this?

Well what’s wrong with it?

 

[South]

I think I'd be alright with B12 having no gap but I feel like D1 Breath should at the very least
Her trait seems fine to me but if you're playing a zoner type I can see why it might be considered a little good

The thing with her b12 not having a gap would mean I could b12xx breathe mb be +1-2 and now d1xx breathe again or d1xx trait etc the options are endless!
But! If it has a gap that's 7f the SG player would get punished for being braindead unless they condition their opp with full string .

 

[Cursa]

The thing with her b12 not having a gap would mean I could b12xx breathe mb be +1-2 and now d1xx breathe again or d1xx trait etc the options are endless!
But! If it has a gap that's 7f the SG player would get punished for being braindead unless they condition their opp with full string .

Yeah you could go B12xx Breath and then do D1 breath but then that's the end of it if you abuse the gap in D1 and breathe that I suggested.

But yeah you're right there's not really a reason to hit confirm with her at the moment, you just kind of press buttons and do things and it works at certain levels of play

 

[South]

Why don’t we just make breath and meterburn breath high. That makes her a lot less potato by making her have to hit confirm and makes her breath being plus not a big thing.

With it being a high their would be no need to guess for opponents and really change SG gameplay as a whole!
For example let's say it's SG v SC
I do B123 the last 4 times (this is with the nerf you presented) the SC know he can crouch block since it's a high or crouch block full string and follow up with his turn... so on 5th time I do b12xx breathe SC does D1xx mb DB2 no thought about it! Making anything cancelled into breathe a full combo punish... only way to make this work would to make bf3 mb combo into.. B12, D1, F2(consistently), 112, 21 which in turn makes us still highly punishable on block n through the gap! But also making breathe a punish only thing! Hope this helps

 

[South]

Yeah you could go B12xx Breath and then do D1 breath but then that's the end of it if you abuse the gap in D1 and breathe that I suggested.

But yeah you're right there's not really a reason to hit confirm with her at the moment, you just kind of press buttons and do things and it works at certain levels of play

Couldn't have said last part better myself as breathe in its current state is a brainless tool at times

 

[Cursa]

Couldn't have said last part better myself as breathe in its current state is a brainless tool at times

I might be going a little overboard but at more casual levels of play it is a really effective way of avoiding fundamentals. Most other characters have gaps in either strings cancelled into launching specials or just gaps in the specials themselves so that you have to hit confirm strings so that you actually are learning a part of the game.

Robin has a gap in DB2 MB
Black Manta can't just confirm into DB2 MB
Firestorm's primary launcher (BD2) is unsafe on block
Poison Ivy drill, Batman's grapple, Cold's ice trap etc etc etc.

 

[Two First Names]

With it being a high their would be no need to guess for opponents and really change SG gameplay as a whole!
For example let's say it's SG v SC
I do B123 the last 4 times (this is with the nerf you presented) the SC know he can crouch block since it's a high or crouch block full string and follow up with his turn... so on 5th time I do b12xx breathe SC does D1xx mb DB2 no thought about it! Making anything cancelled into breathe a full combo punish... only way to make this work would to make bf3 mb combo into.. B12, D1, F2(consistently), 112, 21 which in turn makes us still highly punishable on block n through the gap! But also making breathe a punish only thing! Hope this helps

Why would you do b12 breath if it was unsafe, you can hitconfirm b12 so it wouldn’t even affect you at a high level. You just don’t need to have a plus on block launcher into 30% anywhere on the screen.
What does bf3 mb have to do with breath?

 

[South]

I might be going a little overboard but at more casual levels of play it is a really effective way of avoiding fundamentals. Most other characters have gaps in either strings cancelled into launching specials or just gaps in the specials themselves so that you have to hit confirm strings so that you actually are learning a part of the game.

Robin has a gap in DB2 MB
Black Manta can't just confirm into DB2 MB
Firestorm's primary launcher (BD2) is unsafe on block
Poison Ivy drill, Batman's grapple, Cold's ice trap etc etc etc.

See thing with with let's say poison ivy... she has options actually a lot I'll just use her B2D2 string for example..
She can B2xxDatuta cancel
B2D2xxDatura Cancel
B2D2xxDaturna,2, Mb, 3
And so fourth
But for people like Firestorm they can instead of rely on BD2 use DB3 for a +4 launcher! And in turn on hit land a restand/vortex or on block mix you up with overheads/lows/grabs
Then you have Black Manta who like ivy has a lot of options!
He can B2xxLaser
B2, float
B2xxrocket
B22xxlaser
etc, etc the characters have options to stop gaps as well as options to condition the opp to press a button & whiff punish. The thing that separates Supergirl, Black Adam, Dr. Fate from those characters in that meta/fundamental category is the autopilot move they have!
Supergirl = Breathe
Black Adam = trait Cancel
Dr. Fate = Glyphs
ScareCrow = DB2 (+6 hit confirm launcher or D1xx CMDG/ J3/ CMDG frame trap)
Superman = F23

 

[South]

Why would you do b12 breath if it was unsafe, you can hitconfirm b12 so it wouldn’t even affect you at a high level. You just don’t need to have a plus on block launcher into 30% anywhere on the screen.
What does bf3 mb have to do with breath?

Did you read any off my post?
On a high level to compensate for that nerf actually any level! Your changing her whole meta and into giving her a nerf to turn her braindead option into a braindead defensive option select the opponent always will do with D1 option selects

 

[GLoRToR]

Frankly, overnerfing is always a concern with NRS.
I think that Supergirl should be a rushdown character as she was intended so her range abilities need toning down.

Trait: high, No trajectory change. Does not knock down. Slower
Trait AIR: No trajectory change. Does not knock down. Slower
Trait HOLD: high, damage retained, unsafe on whiff.
Trait MB: Knocks down, trajectory change in all versions.
Breath: Consistent frame data, decreased range, unsafe.
Breath MB: Retains current frame data, current range, safe on block.
Teleport: Remains unsafe on block, slower startup, worse recovery on whiff, increase damage, not a launcher.
Teleport MB: Unsafe on block, slower startup, worse recovery on whiff, increase damage, launcher.

All specials clashable when combo'd into or from.

Meter Gain: Looked at so that she doesn't just get too much of it so that her mb abilities become a meter management issue to keep the character honest.

 

[Cursa]

See thing with with let's say poison ivy... she has options actually a lot I'll just use her B2D2 string for example..
She can B2xxDatuta cancel
B2D2xxDatura Cancel
B2D2xxDaturna,2, Mb, 3
And so fourth
But for people like Firestorm they can instead of rely on BD2 use DB3 for a +4 launcher! And in turn on hit land a restand/vortex or on block mix you up with overheads/lows/grabs
Then you have Black Manta who like ivy has a lot of options!
He can B2xxLaser
B2, float
B2xxrocket
B22xxlaser
etc, etc the characters have options to stop gaps as well as options to condition the opp to press a button & whiff punish. The thing that separates Supergirl, Black Adam, Dr. Fate from those characters in that meta/fundamental category is the autopilot move they have!
Supergirl = Breathe
Black Adam = trait Cancel
Dr. Fate = Glyphs
ScareCrow = DB2 (+6 hit confirm launcher or D1xx CMDG/ J3/ CMDG frame trap)
Superman = F23

Supergirl can really just use breath whenever she feels like and on block she's safe and can often still press buttons if staggered correctly, or hits and she just full combos, along with her excellent zoning/counter zoning, mobility, damage and neutral.

Dr Fate glyphs aren't too bad because he has to commit trait and the bar to launch and he doesn't have an awful lot of hit confirmable strings that you will likely be using (F2 is his best really with 11 as a second).

Scarecrow uses DB2 for block pressure which is what his whole character is built around, plus frames into either strings or command grab, and as a result has no zoning and is quite slow with relatively slow buttons.

Superman just does superman, he has a similar problem but since MB breath and normal breath are both -1 IIRC then it doesn't really bother me because he's just throwing bar away otherwise.

Black adam similar thing to superman and scarecrow, they either have plus frames or close enough to be plus frames (-1 on breath) that they can continue into another string and then hit confirm that, but also remember that Superman and Black adam's frames are limited to their traits, while scarecrows is limited by meter. Super girl just ends any string into frost breath and staggers it on block to just be able to press buttons.

Also pretty sure you can press buttons out of anything manta does into rockets since the first one is a high.

Summarising - Frost breath is a really strong tool considering it has no gaps when cancelled into strings, which I think it kind of alright, but along with her great neutral, zoning, counter zoning, damage, and mobility - little much for me, so I think it deserves the nerf the most because everything else is pretty balanced about her.

 

[IrishMantis]

I've thought this for awhile but think something small like increasing the start up on breath by like 2 frames (it would still combo from D1)

So that way everybody can relatively easily interupt rather than being off a frame and get full combo punished on a trade because I just wanted to D1 her back

Not sure what else but that will definitely help.
I don't know make her MB laser actually cost a bar?

CW
Make her B3 like -7
Decrease her damage

 

[IrishMantis]

lol how times have changed

I1 "Increase walkspeed"
I2 "Decreace walkspeed"

 

[Two First Names]

Did you read any off my post?
On a high level to compensate for that nerf actually any level! Your changing her whole meta and into giving her a nerf to turn her braindead option into a braindead defensive option select the opponent always will do with D1 option selects

At the highest level you could already interrupt the gap my change just makes it easier. And bf3 meterburn already launches them high enough to get a b3 from full screen.

 

[myri]

What I'm expecting next patch:

 

[LaidbackOne]

Frankly, overnerfing is always a concern with NRS.
I think that Supergirl should be a rushdown character as she was intended so her range abilities need toning down.

Trait: high, No trajectory change. Does not knock down. Slower
Trait AIR: No trajectory change. Does not knock down. Slower
Trait HOLD: high, damage retained, unsafe on whiff.
Trait MB: Knocks down, trajectory change in all versions.
Breath: Consistent frame data, decreased range, unsafe.
Breath MB: Retains current frame data, current range, safe on block.
Teleport: Remains unsafe on block, slower startup, worse recovery on whiff, increase damage, not a launcher.
Teleport MB: Unsafe on block, slower startup, worse recovery on whiff, increase damage, launcher.

All specials clashable when combo'd into or from.

Meter Gain: Looked at so that she doesn't just get too much of it so that her mb abilities become a meter management issue to keep the character honest.

In all seriousness, why the fuck do you want to decrease startup on a 30+ frame move?
And how do you know she was supposed be a rushdown character. She sure as hello doesnt Look like she was, so you must know something the designers didnt.

 

[Wetdoba]

bane level 3 shouldn't break super armor.... If you make the read and pop super to punish their gap..

Ok first of all Bane does not break armor on every hit like supes trait, bane only breaks armor in level 3 with his armored specials(elbow, uppercut, command grab). So if Bane wants to break armor he has to commit to a raw -30 on block special or F2D.

F2D is safe to use on knockdown so if you are having your super stuffed by this it is because Bane knocked you down and committed to level 3 and you tried to wake up super instead of respect it, so not a read.

If you are having super armor broken by a raw special when trying to super a string gap then that means that the Bane player had to commit to raw non-mix up FCP special while using all of his trait to cover a gap that he knew you would use all of your meter to try and blow up. So not only is that not a read for the other player its actually probably the biggest read you can make in the game for the Bane player.

So yeah, that armor break is staying.