Proposed Nerf Discussion

[Vengeance135]

So I was preparing to foam at the mouth post such a gruesome horrible post with every insult known to man that would not only get me ip banned from the forum but actually arrested and on the 10 most wanted list, when I read that, BUT THEN BY MISTAKE I LOOKED A BIT DOWN AND SAW THIS:



SO BASICALLY THE FACT THAT I RISK A 900DAMAGE COMBO DEBUFF that gets resetted on each clash transition super SO THATICAN BREAKARMORR FOR 3 SOECONIDSI S IS NEEDS NERFONI doif mother ifojd oi jg mpieapcm jmgkjfjfdgjmkbkv\bkgk gf g klg o 443$# O%O%%#)5 ))65)3)) @)$)2)$)@)$)%)^%)%$^)%$)^

Yeah bro chill lol it's an opinion.

 

[Vengeance135]

Ok first of all Bane does not break armor on every hit like supes trait, bane only breaks armor in level 3 with his armored specials(elbow, uppercut, command grab). So if Bane wants to break armor he has to commit to a raw -30 on block special or F2D.

F2D is safe to use on knockdown so if you are having your super stuffed by this it is because Bane knocked you down and committed to level 3 and you tried to wake up super instead of respect it, so not a read.

If you are having super armor broken by a raw special when trying to super a string gap then that means that the Bane player had to commit to raw non-mix up FCP special while using all of his trait to cover a gap that he knew you would use all of your meter to try and blow up. So not only is that not a read for the other player its actually probably the biggest read you can make in the game for the Bane player.

So yeah, that armor break is staying.

Look it's a personal opinion lol some people might Yolo wake up super but others will wake up super because they know a lot of bane players will start throwing out grabs and etc when there opponent is knocked down. I understand the commitment to particular moves bane has to make. He's not the only character that has to take risks but when you literally spend the entire stick of butter knowing what your opponent is going to do and it just gets stuffed... well that's shitty lol.

Supermans pissed me off more though... trait active... you block f3.. you know he's going to f2... you super... it gets stuffed... the first only time I tried that... I was utterly salty...

But look, it was just an opinion we know nothing if that sort is getting changed lol we have a better chance of getting scarecrow and black Adams trait nerfed so they don't kill, which we know isn't going to happen lol just wishful thinking.

Btw as I type this, I realize supermans trait must fuck banes armor up... I'm sorry... supermans trait damage buff is enough. It shouldn't be an armor killer as well.

I'll edit my proposition to only superman lol my bad

@M.D.

 

[South]

At the highest level you could already interrupt the gap my change just makes it easier. And bf3 meterburn already launches them high enough to get a b3 from full screen.

Who is interrupting anything cancelled into breathe consistently? I'll wait
Your change doesn't make it easier it makes the move go from pressure/ safe way to end strings to a situational move...
And B12...D1.. 21... don't connect with bf3 mb which is why I said that it should only F2 does and even then it won't because it's inconsistent

 

[Vengeance135]

I think nerfing trait kills but still allowing for any other chipout would be somewhat silly. If Crow wasn't chipping your last 2% with trait, or Ivy, or Atrocitus, or Darkseid, or Swamp Thing, or Black Adam (and so on), it would just be a meter burned move to do the same. Granted, I don't think Crow's trait should have ANY affect while you are hurting him. I think that if you manage to land a long combo that disables trait and Oki him, you deserve a comeback. Chipout? Sure. Kamikaze wins? Pretty cheesey.

I think bigger gaps for Supergirl would be fantastic. It would encourage smarter play. Her lasers are fine, she should just have less access to them. Like... A lot less. Throwing out a laser in neutral should feel like coming off of a valuable resource. It would keep them as a counter zoning tool and would make laserwalk a bigger cash out.

Catwoman would be fine if her hurtbox issues were fixed. Her B3 is not ok. Her backdash is also a little nuts. I don't think her plus frames need nerfing if those happen.

Black Adam's plus frames are kinda ridiculous, there's no reason to have something be plus all the way up into the 20s. That's some prepatch Lao BS. His MB divekick should also be minus from every height and maybe startup just a few frames slower. Possibly make black magic more minus? I think a fullscreen combo starter should warrant significant risk.

Aside from all that, maybe add a little more recovery to Hellboy's gun in the style of Red Hood's gun. It's a little too good right now.

My beef with scarecrow and Adams trait is that all they have to do is activate it and come to you. As the opponent about to die, there's really nothing you can do about it.

Adam can just divekick his ass to you for the kill and even if you interrupt the dive kick, one orb will still hit you so your dead anyway.

Scarecrow has a teleport so if you are critical and he teleports, you die before his body even shows up behind you... that's cheesy af lol.

I agree if you have a combo going, he shouldn't hurt you but he shouldn't be able to get you critical and basically say once your critical, or close to, your finished once I teleport, rather your blocking or not lol

 

[Wetdoba]

Look it's a personal opinion lol some people might Yolo wake up super but others will wake up super because they know a lot of bane players will start throwing out grabs and etc when there opponent is knocked down. I understand the commitment to particular moves bane has to make. He's not the only character that has to take risks but when you literally spend the entire stick of butter knowing what your opponent is going to do and it just gets stuffed... well that's shitty lol.

Supermans pissed me off more though... trait active... you block f3.. you know he's going to f2... you super... it gets stuffed... the first only time I tried that... I was utterly salty...

But look, it was just an opinion we know nothing if that sort is getting changed lol we have a better chance of getting scarecrow and black Adams trait nerfed so they don't kill, which we know isn't going to happen lol just wishful thinking.

Btw as I type this, I realize supermans trait must fuck banes armor up... I'm sorry... supermans trait damage buff is enough. It shouldn't be an armor killer as well.

I'll edit my proposition to only superman lol my bad

@M.D.

But if you wake up super when you know he can break your armor anyway (which grab would do at level 3 assuming super isnt grab immune) than you dont fully know what Im doing. Im doing that stuff precisely so you cant super out. If you dont factor in the fact my level 3 move will armor break than its not the right read in the first place so its not like you are being punished for the right read ypu are being punished for the wrong one. I fully understand havibg super stuffed is salt inducing but it is the wrong read.

Supes trait does fuck Bane up but again I just dont challenge the trait with armor, Bane can challenge with his normals fine so its either that or wait it out. Reading supes as bane means i have to factor in his armor break ability and not use armor for that time as a crutch and the same applies to people trying to super their way out of bane level 3 pressure.

 

[M.D.]

So basically the only thing i got out of this thread is asking for scarecrow and bane nerfs in a supergirl discussion.

https://simple.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_volcanos
https://www.wikihow.com/Skydive-for-the-First-Time

 

[Skedar70]

I don't see why everybody is so annoyed by supergirl and want her nerfed. I play against her everytime I'm on because of all of the tier whore bandwagon and I don't see her needing any nerfs. Think she is fine I never felt cheated by any of her tools.

 

[IrishMantis]

I don't see why everybody is so annoyed by supergirl and want her nerfed. I play against her everytime I'm on because of all of the tier whore bandwagon and I don't see her needing any nerfs. Think she is fine I never felt cheated by any of her tools.

I think you're confusing "Honest" with "Viability"
They are not the same thing.

A character can be honest and too good.
Same Vice versa... a char can be dirty AF and be ass viably (look at Joker)

Outside of the crustyness SG is honest she has nothing on paper that screams "Broken" but that doesn't mean the char is fine.

She has no losing MUs ,that's fine too, but what is not fine is having no weakness or flaws.

Not only that but in most MUs she beats chars in a lot of elements (Offence, Defence, Neutral, Air , zoning, counter, ect) and at worse is on par.

So there is 2 options to help improve balance

1. Get everybody to her level.
You know that direction will cause more problems in the long run

2.Bring her a down closer to the base level.
This is the most problem free option

CW on the other hand is too good more on her dirt so she's on the other spectrum.

Disclaimer: I'm not complaining about the balance of the game at all, in fact check my statuses I compliment them and think this is the most balanced game by far they have ever made. But that doesn't mean they can't make it even better

 

[Superman64]

In all honesty I would only Nerf her damage to pre patch or even worse. She keeps all her tools and pressure allowing her to be a jack of all trades. If she going to that her reward for opening you up with those many tools should be small.

 

[Vengeance135]

But if you wake up super when you know he can break your armor anyway (which grab would do at level 3 assuming super isnt grab immune) than you dont fully know what Im doing. Im doing that stuff precisely so you cant super out. If you dont factor in the fact my level 3 move will armor break than its not the right read in the first place so its not like you are being punished for the right read ypu are being punished for the wrong one. I fully understand havibg super stuffed is salt inducing but it is the wrong read.

Supes trait does fuck Bane up but again I just dont challenge the trait with armor, Bane can challenge with his normals fine so its either that or wait it out. Reading supes as bane means i have to factor in his armor break ability and not use armor for that time as a crutch and the same applies to people trying to super their way out of bane level 3 pressure.

No I got you lol knowing what level 3 does and if you are willing to throw out super knowing what will happen, then that's on you. I got exactly what you were saying. As I said before, I retract what I said about bane, you are right and I won't argue that. Bane suffers enough without trait.

However with superman, an armor breaking trait that allows you to do crazy damage with no repercussion... not a fan of. If I make the right read, I want the reward. Not have to sit there and hold the pressure because my armor is useless. But then again I use a character with a trash trait so any trait better then mine is an annoyance lol


anyways, these were just an opinion. None that would change anything lol my bad if I offended you.

 

[Redk9]

Do ya’ll ever stop asking for balance patches?

 

[ClayW]

I might be going a little overboard but at more casual levels of play it is a really effective way of avoiding fundamentals. Most other characters have gaps in either strings cancelled into launching specials or just gaps in the specials themselves so that you have to hit confirm strings so that you actually are learning a part of the game.

Robin has a gap in DB2 MB
Black Manta can't just confirm into DB2 MB
Firestorm's primary launcher (BD2) is unsafe on block
Poison Ivy drill, Batman's grapple, Cold's ice trap etc etc etc.

Firestorms launcher goes almost full screen. Batman doesn’t hit confirm into grapple he does into EX batarangs which are plus 19.

 

[LaidbackOne]

No I got you lol knowing what level 3 does and if you are willing to throw out super knowing what will happen, then that's on you. I got exactly what you were saying. As I said before, I retract what I said about bane, you are right and I won't argue that. Bane suffers enough without trait.

However with superman, an armor breaking trait that allows you to do crazy damage with no repercussion... not a fan of. If I make the right read, I want the reward. Not have to sit there and hold the pressure because my armor is useless. But then again I use a character with a trash trait so any trait better then mine is an annoyance lol


anyways, these were just an opinion. None that would change anything lol my bad if I offended you.

You are applying some strange logic there.
If you use armor when Supermans trait is on, then its obviously not the correct read and you shouldn't be rewarded.

 

[New York Pizza]

What I'm expecting next patch:

The "gee whiz" made me lol

 

[Vengeance135]

You are applying some strange logic there.
If you use armor when Supermans trait is on, then its obviously not the correct read and you shouldn't be rewarded.

I gave an example, superman has trait active, you block his f3, you read he goes for a f23, you activate super, you get stuffed. You made the right read and wasted all that meter for nothing. This has happened to me only once, obviously I won't do it again lol but my point was, i made the read and got blown up for it. At the time, I didn't know supermans trait was an armor breaker still (this situation happened much earlier in the game's life but I still thought it was ridiculous). Like I said though, these are just my opinion. I do understand the importance of banes armor/trait but superman doesn't have a debuff like bane.

 

[Eldriken]

So I was preparing to foam at the mouth post such a gruesome horrible post with every insult known to man that would not only get me ip banned from the forum but actually arrested and on the 10 most wanted list, when I read that, BUT THEN BY MISTAKE I LOOKED A BIT DOWN AND SAW THIS:



SO BASICALLY THE FACT THAT I RISK A 900DAMAGE COMBO DEBUFF that gets resetted on each clash transition super SO THATICAN BREAKARMORR FOR 3 SOECONIDSI S IS NEEDS NERFONI doif mother ifojd oi jg mpieapcm jmgkjfjfdgjmkbkv\bkgk gf g klg o 443$# O%O%%#)5 ))65)3)) @)$)2)$)@)$)%)^%)%$^)%$)^

Banned and cops called!

 

[KingHippo]

Do ya’ll ever stop asking for balance patches?

There's a quote from social activist and writer James Baldwin that sums this up. He was talking about race, but it applies here too:

“I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.”

 

[Error]

MAKE BREATHE 1 FRAME SLOWER gives us more of a gap without messing with B12 and D1

D1 IS NOW 8F but d2 is now 6f. Give her something

Trait takes more meter.

MB breathe is now -8

Only reasonable post in this thread.

You too @IrishMantis

Seems everyone else is more interested in tier shifting than balance.

 

[Vengeance135]

Nerf jokers trait!!!!!! Oh wait...

 

[foxof42]

There's a quote from social activist and writer James Baldwin that sums this up. He was talking about race, but it applies here too:

“I imagine one of the reasons people cling to their hates so stubbornly is because they sense, once hate is gone, they will be forced to deal with pain.”

Holy crap, that's the most elegant "git gud scrub" I have EVER heard! Hats off to you sir.

 

[foxof42]

Nerf jokers trait!!!!!! Oh wait...

He has a trait?

 

[The_Tile]

I gave an example, superman has trait active, you block his f3, you read he goes for a f23, you activate super, you get stuffed. You made the right read and wasted all that meter for nothing. This has happened to me only once, obviously I won't do it again lol but my point was, i made the read and got blown up for it. At the time, I didn't know supermans trait was an armor breaker still (this situation happened much earlier in the game's life but I still thought it was ridiculous). Like I said though, these are just my opinion. I do understand the importance of banes armor/trait but superman doesn't have a debuff like bane.

Yeah but the point is if you read a F2 after a F3 while Supes has trait using super is the wrong option as you know you'll get beat so you haven't made the right read. In fact you made the wrong one

 

[Two First Names]

Who is interrupting anything cancelled into breathe consistently? I'll wait
Your change doesn't make it easier it makes the move go from pressure/ safe way to end strings to a situational move...
And B12...D1.. 21... don't connect with bf3 mb which is why I said that it should only F2 does and even then it won't because it's inconsistent

I can’t even name a person that’s punishing it consistently, don’t you think that’s a sign it’s dumb? And again just confirm b12 and 21 into breath. Why does she need to be safe on a 7 frame low combo starter that also low profiles?

 

[foxof42]

I can’t even name a person that’s punishing it consistently, don’t you think that’s a sign it’s dumb? And again just confirm b12 and 21 into breath. Why does she need to be safe on a 7 frame low combo starter that also low profiles?

Well... I blow up b12 breath all the time with Scarecrow until my opponent knows not to pull that on me. I still can't hit the gap in D1 breath outside of practice though. So that's 1 person you can name I guess?

 

[foxof42]

Can swamp things trait kill?

Yes sir. Lemme tell you right now, trait pop + MB roll is life. Throw in some standing tree and some logs for good measure and feelsgoodman. It's a tough situation to come out of.

But seriously, just about every single character has something like this, if not though trait then through a MB projectile or some such.