Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

[Juggs]

A tier list is predominantly determined by match-ups. The characters with the more favorable MU's are higher, their overall strength isn't as much of a factor. So it's still too early for any kind of accurate tier list. For instance, Erron Black is really good, but him having bad MU's will bring him down regardless of how good of a character he is.

 

[JTB123]

I still it's far too early to discuss tier lists and earlier still to discuss whether characters are S+. That terminology shouldn't be thrown around at this point.

 

[MadPropz101]

Erron Black is definitely not S+ lol, Cassie is A tier, Kotal and Liu A tier.

 

[Predannok]

Kotal and Liu A tier.

How can u put Cassie Cage with her +1 b124 with vortex in Hollywood, Hard-to-blockables in Spec ops and Command grab mixups in Brawler with Kotal Kahn? WarGod is B-A But Sun god and BLood God Are Bullshit compared to Spec ops or Brawler.. just compare both footsie tools b124 is +1 while f1b2 is -11 SG and BG have nothing to make this safe.

 

[Braindead]

A tier list is predominantly determined by match-ups. The characters with the more favorable MU's are higher, their overall strength isn't as much of a factor. So it's still too early for any kind of accurate tier list. For instance, Erron Black is really good, but him having bad MU's will bring him down regardless of how good of a character he is.

Sadly TYM doesn't see it this way anymore.

 

[Predannok]

Erron Black is definitely not S+

Best Command grab in the game thick throws of hit and block that also gives him a 25/25/25/25 with hes 21122 ,on top of hes 50/50s.
Low grenade to be + and safe. Vortex and Buttloads of Armor to break trough vortexes. Id consider that S-S+

 

[Matador Fiend]

List looks good but i think jax and eb should swap places.

 

[jebotenejm]

D'Vorah - everybody recognizes that she is one of the best characters in the game, but is she the best? I am not convinced yet. Aside from Quan Chi, the top tier characters have launching EX armor special moves. The lack of such a move is a conspicuous weaknesses in this highly rush down oriented game. D'Vorah has the ovipositor rush which neither launches nor is it safe on block.

Tanya - I agree. She is most likely an S tier character. She has excellent defense and a superb run away game.

Kung Lao - is this the character GGA is going to downplay in this game? He has no 50/50 mix ups but has everything else. He has ridiculous pressure and strings, the best punishing and anti-aerial move in the game, and a great anti-zoning tool. Plus apparently he has no combos that do below 35% of damage.

kung lao (tempest) have huge damage but is easy to predict. buzz have some mix ups with his b22,b2 low hat but have poor damage.

 

[youthinkyoubadyouaintbad]

Jason belongs in his own garbage tier imo, he has no good wakeup, he is slower than molasses, he pretty much can only pray that f42 hits, the other variations are one with a shit teleport and a gimmicky meter waste revive. Jason can't create shit on his own he has to pray the other guy screws up.

 

[usedcarsalesmang]

We'll see how good Shinnok is when Detroit and WoundCowboy use him at a major...

Hope they have solid secondaries when they get sent to losers.

 

[Eldriken]

Jason belongs in his own garbage tier imo, he has no good wakeup, he is slower than molasses, he pretty much can only pray that f42 hits, the other variations are one with a shit teleport and a gimmicky meter waste revive. Jason can't create shit on his own he has to pray the other guy screws up.

Yep, f42 is all he has. Conditioning people to stand block with f2 doesn't work, catching people pressing buttons after you're +2 from 12 doesn't work, etc.

 

[ForeverKing]

I don't think we should do tier lists by variation

I think we have to honestly. For example if we made a variation tier list Tempest Lao is at least 30 spots above Hat Trick Lao.

Every variation is like it's own character with it's own matchup chart, completely different then the other two variations of that character. But it would be super long and arduous to make a variation tier list lol. That's the only way it can be accurate tho. Maybe in about a year or two we'll have an almost decent variation tier list

 

[WakeUp DP]

Evey variation should have a tier list.

For example Subz GM is top10 but unbreakable is bottom 5.

 

[MadPropz101]

kung lao (tempest) have huge damage but is easy to predict. buzz have some mix ups with his b22,b2 low hat but have poor damage.

Predicting doesn't mean shit when his orbiting hat is +27, infinite pressure once he get's going, even his normal -3 one is tough as hell to escape from, and this all leads to around 40% dmg.

 

[Rude]

Yep, f42 is all he has. Conditioning people to stand block with f2 doesn't work, catching people pressing buttons after you're +2 from 12 doesn't work, etc.

I legitimately can't sense your sarcasm through text. Is it Sarcasm?

I happen to think Jason might be okay. He does need that whiffing problem fixed, though.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

I still it's far too early to discuss tier lists and earlier still to discuss whether characters are S+. That terminology shouldn't be thrown around at this point.

Bloody hell. Games been out for a fair while now, we at least have some idea, and until some breakthrough and new realisations are made I think it's fine to start sharing opinions on tiering, it's not as if they can't be changed as the game evolves.

 

[SneakyTortoise]

I think we have to honestly. For example if we made a variation tier list Tempest Lao is at least 30 spots above Hat Trick Lao.

Every variation is like it's own character with it's own matchup chart, completely different then the other two variations of that character. But it would be super long and arduous to make a variation tier list lol. That's the only way it can be accurate tho. Maybe in about a year or two we'll have an almost decent variation tier list

My reasoning is this:

Any character main should be able to use each variation that is advantageous to them. For example, Scorpion mains should be able to switch between Hellfire, Inferno and Ninjitsu when the match up requires it.

So, tier lists are based primarily on the match ups (or at least they should be). Considering each character as a whole character, not broken up into variations, takes this into account and utilises the way the variation system was meant to be implemented.

Hypothetically taking Scorpion again. Let's say he wins a third of his matchups in Hellfire, is even with another third and loses the last third. But the matches he goes even or loses with in Hellfire, he wins in Inferno or Ninjitsu. This would mean that Scorpion wins every match up, making him S+ tier, but wouldn't be reflected if split up into variations.

Yes, this is just hypothetical, but there is no scenario where splitting into variations would be a better way to determine a tier list, unless you wanted to know which variation was best for variation specialists.

 

[Temjiin]

Whats b32 on block or whatever that string is?

b321? b312?

You can also armour out of B321, as you can 112124.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tU7Hqk8VtuEM3Pj1T4pKY-4dAuiO-Lkh6N4kStJGAxY/edit#gid=1641440341

 

[coolwhip]

My reasoning is this:

Any character main should be able to use each variation that is advantageous to them. For example, Scorpion mains should be able to switch between Hellfire, Hellfire and Hellfire when the match up requires it.

Fixed.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Fixed.

That's much better, I could tell something looked a little off there originally.

 

[Bildslash]

define fine

He's being sarcastic. He is/was the first to tell you Goro was THE bottom character.

Now, personally I know Goro is bottom but didn't feel he was that bad, but that's probably bias on my part.

 

[coolwhip]

You can also armour out of B321, as you can 112124.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tU7Hqk8VtuEM3Pj1T4pKY-4dAuiO-Lkh6N4kStJGAxY/edit#gid=1641440341

Absolutely not. 112124 can only be armored through between the last two hits from a certain distance because sometimes the 4 would miss randomly (so there's no real science behind it. At least, not one that allows you to do it consistently in a match situation). Point blank, it is never interruptable. B321 is never interruptable from any distance or in any situation.

 

[Juggs]

Fixed.

Truth. I literally don't use any other variation because there's no reason to imo.

 

[JTB123]

Bloody hell. Games been out for a fair while now, we at least have some idea, and until some breakthrough and new realisations are made I think it's fine to start sharing opinions on tiering, it's not as if they can't be changed as the game evolves.

There's nothing wrong with discussing characters, I was referring to tier lists as they are based on match ups for the entire cast. That cannot be done in two months.

Fixed.

If you think Inferno and Ninjustu are useless then you need to look into them more. Don't get me wrong I consider Hellfire the best, but the other two should not be ignored.

One of the things I notice when I use Ninjustu is people having no clue the range Ninjutsu exclusive moves have so people hang around in space where against inferno and hellfire you're safe but you're not against Ninjutsu.

That kind of variation unfamiliarity is exactly why it's too early for a tier list, people (not you) are writing off variations as being useless without putting significant time into them.

 

[KIllaByte]

"Kung Jin doesn't have safety anymore" *sigh* Didn't we already debunk this completely false and nonsense claim right after the patch? His half screen 50/50 is safe against 95% of the cast.

Props though for some of the most hilarious and ridiculous downplaying I've seen in a while.

I don't even play Kung Jin.
There are other character with 1/3rd screen 50-50s that are safe against 100% of the cast, Kung Jin is not top 3 like the guy I responded to said.