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Opinion on the what the current tiers look like

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
That is actually not true. The distance might make it whiff slightly more often, but 112124 will whiff even at the closest range, go test it. Often enough that it can happen twice in a row. The last hit of 11212 will also whiff sometimes, people just haven't noticed because it is hard to notice visually.
From practice I haven't had the last hit actually whiff. What I've seen and tested is the hit before last (112124) whiffing making it possible to armor through the gap. Heck, even from max range 11 has a gap punishble by fast armored moves.
 
Predicting doesn't mean shit when his orbiting hat is +27, infinite pressure once he get's going, even his normal -3 one is tough as hell to escape from, and this all leads to around 40% dmg.
orbiting hat uses one meter. you can use one to counter after some pressure or escape or whatever or not at all. my problem with tempest is that i have hard time to open people while with buzz its ok even he doesnt have true 50/50. then again im yet to face good kung lao (tempest) so maybe im wrong.

i still cant counter (good) inferno scorp, although people are saying how easy it is. basically he have 40% from anything, combo, air aa special whatever.
 
From practice I haven't had the last hit actually whiff. What I've seen and tested is the hit before last (112124) whiffing making it possible to armor through the gap. Heck, even from max range 11 has a gap punishble by fast armored moves.
In that case you must have not played kung lao that much, because it happens quite often. It depends on the character ofcourse, but it happens on like half the cast or maybe more.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
But the gap in 112114 is not that much of a problem because it happens too fast to notice. Plus, in order to do armored reversal you have to let go of block, I don't see anyone having reflexes good enough to pull it off consistently.
This game lets you mash out reversals while holding block.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
In that case you must have not played kung lao that much, because it happens quite often. It depends on the character ofcourse, but it happens on like half the cast or maybe more.
I usually use as training dummies characters with fast amored moves (e.g. Subzero). I will check with others to see what you're describing.
 

Bildslash

Goro Lives 
It's best to test on multiple characters. It happens most on female characters, kung jin and reptile.
Now I see what you mean. When crouch blocking it will whiff sometimes. This is likely carried over from MK9, where the "breathing" animation of some characters makes their hitbox shrink at seemingly random intervals.

That definitely needs to be looked at.

P.S: Another example of wonky hitboxes, Lao's s.1 which is a high can hit sometimes crouch blocking characters, lol.
 
Now I see what you mean. When crouch blocking it will whiff sometimes. This is likely carried over from MK9, where the "breathing" animation of some characters makes their hitbox shrink at seemingly random intervals.

That definitely needs to be looked at.

P.S: Another example of wonky hitboxes, Lao's s.1 which is a high can hit sometimes crouch blocking characters, lol.
Standing 1 is supposed to connect on crouch block characters. It will whiff on low hitbix characters and only connects on medium low hitbox characters if you are at the closest point.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
My reasoning is this:

Any character main should be able to use each variation that is advantageous to them. For example, Scorpion mains should be able to switch between Hellfire, Inferno and Ninjitsu when the match up requires it.

So, tier lists are based primarily on the match ups (or at least they should be). Considering each character as a whole character, not broken up into variations, takes this into account and utilises the way the variation system was meant to be implemented.

Hypothetically taking Scorpion again. Let's say he wins a third of his matchups in Hellfire, is even with another third and loses the last third. But the matches he goes even or loses with in Hellfire, he wins in Inferno or Ninjitsu. This would mean that Scorpion wins every match up, making him S+ tier, but wouldn't be reflected if split up into variations.

Yes, this is just hypothetical, but there is no scenario where splitting into variations would be a better way to determine a tier list, unless you wanted to know which variation was best for variation specialists.
But the thing is you can't switch variations mid match. You have to lose a tournament match in order to switch variations. So it is essentially the same exact thing as losing, and counter picking with a different character.

Just for hypothetical speaking, let's say Hellfire and Outlaw beats Grandmaster, and Ninjitsu loses to Grandmaster. If you pick Ninjitsu and your opponent picks Grandmaster in tournament, you wouldn't say Scorpion is at advantage. You wouldn't call it a 5-5 matchup just because the Scorpion has another variation that beats Grandmaster. The Ninjitsu is at disadvantage in that matchup. The Scorpion player would have to lose first, go down 0-1 in the set then counterpick with Hellfire. But literally there is no difference if he counterpicked with Outlaw instead of Hellfire.

Every variation is it's own character. You can't switch variations during a match. I could see your point if you could switch variations when you win a tournament match, but you can't. You can only switch if you lose, so there's no difference in counter picking with a different variation or just counter picking with a different character
 
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Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
What do you think is wrong with it?
Well, I really can't see how D' Vorah is a better character than Kung Jin and Kung Lao. Shinok isn't B tier. He is A tier, or maybe even higher. Like I said before, just take a look at Alex Valle's Shinok. It will change your concept about the character entirely.

Other than that, I believe it's a pretty solid tier list.
 
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errormacro7

Official Sonya simp
But the thing is you can't switch variations mid match. You have to lose a tournament match in order to switch variations. So it is essentially the same exact thing as losing, and counter picking with a different character.

Just for hypothetical speaking, let's say Hellfire and Outlaw beats Grandmaster, and Ninjitsu loses to Grandmaster. If you pick Ninjitsu and your opponent picks Grandmaster in tournament, you wouldn't say Scorpion is at advantage. You wouldn't call it a 5-5 matchup just because the Scorpion has another variation that beats Grandmaster. The Ninjitsu is at disadvantage in that matchup. The Scorpion player would have to lose first, go down 0-1 in the set then counterpick with Hellfire. But literally there is no difference if he counterpicked with Outlaw instead of Hellfire.

Every variation is it's own character. You can't switch variations during a match. I could see your point if you could switch variations when you win a tournament match, but you can't. You can only switch if you lose, so there's no difference in counter picking with a different variation of just counter picking with a different character
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
But the thing is you can't switch variations mid match. You have to lose a tournament match in order to switch variations. So it is essentially the same exact thing as losing, and counter picking with a different character.

Just for hypothetical speaking, let's say Hellfire and Outlaw beats Grandmaster, and Ninjitsu loses to Grandmaster. If you pick Ninjitsu and your opponent picks Grandmaster in tournament, you wouldn't say Scorpion is at advantage. You wouldn't call it a 5-5 matchup just because the Scorpion has another variation that beats Grandmaster. The Ninjitsu is at disadvantage in that matchup. The Scorpion player would have to lose first, go down 0-1 in the set then counterpick with Hellfire. But literally there is no difference if he counterpicked with Outlaw instead of Hellfire.

Every variation is it's own character. You can't switch variations during a match. I could see your point if you could switch variations when you win a tournament match, but you can't. You can only switch if you lose, so there's no difference in counter picking with a different variation of just counter picking with a different character
I get your point, but I think there's a very big difference between switching characters and switching variations. I'd expect a player to be able to use a different variation to overcome a difficult match up, I wouldn't expect them to be able to use another character completely at the same level.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
But the thing is you can't switch variations mid match. You have to lose a tournament match in order to switch variations. So it is essentially the same exact thing as losing, and counter picking with a different character.

Just for hypothetical speaking, let's say Hellfire and Outlaw beats Grandmaster, and Ninjitsu loses to Grandmaster. If you pick Ninjitsu and your opponent picks Grandmaster in tournament, you wouldn't say Scorpion is at advantage. You wouldn't call it a 5-5 matchup just because the Scorpion has another variation that beats Grandmaster. The Ninjitsu is at disadvantage in that matchup. The Scorpion player would have to lose first, go down 0-1 in the set then counterpick with Hellfire. But literally there is no difference if he counterpicked with Outlaw instead of Hellfire.

Every variation is it's own character. You can't switch variations during a match. I could see your point if you could switch variations when you win a tournament match, but you can't. You can only switch if you lose, so there's no difference in counter picking with a different variation of just counter picking with a different character
Well actually there's a huge difference if you're counterpicking with a Scorpion variation that doesn't exist. :DOGE
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart

Shark Tank

I don't actually play these games
But the thing is you can't switch variations mid match. You have to lose a tournament match in order to switch variations. So it is essentially the same exact thing as losing, and counter picking with a different character.
Only if we could unlock our variations if the loser switches character

hmm.....
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Well, I really can't see how D' Vorah is a better character than Kung Jin and Kung Lao. Shinok isn't B tier. He is A tier, or maybe even higher. Like I said before, just take a look at Alex Valle's Shinok. It will change your concept about the character entirely.

Other than that, I believe it's a pretty solid tier list.
Dvorah is the best character in the game dude.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
Well, I really can't see how D' Vorah is a better character than Kung Jin and Kung Lao. Shinok isn't B tier. He is A tier, or maybe even higher. Like I said before, just take a look at Alex Valle's Shinok. It will change your concept about the character entirely.

Other than that, I believe it's a pretty solid tier list.
PPJ explains his reasoning for Dvorah's placement a few pages in. It's a pretty compelling argument. Shinnok's placement is probably fine. The character still has a few problems, and the argument that player A does well with him isn't really all that convincing.
 

Pnut

Mouth of the Illuminati
I've been told I'm downplaying Kotal, but imagine that ... other people put him where I do.
 

Bidu

the CHILL of DESPAIR
S
Dvorah
raiden
EB
Tanya

A
Quan Chi
Jax
Kung Jin
Scorpion
Sonya
Cassie
KL
Kenshi

B
Johnny Cage
Sub
Ermac
Jacqui Briggs
Shinnok
Ferra Torr
Liu Kang
Kano

C
Mileena
Kotal Kahn
Jason
Reptile

D
Kitana
Takeda
Goro
This is a tier list I concur a lot more than OP's one and Tom Brady's to be honest. Only thing I would change would place Takeda as Tier C.
 

Zephyrus

TYM resident party pooper
S
Dvorah
raiden
EB
Tanya

A
Quan Chi
Jax
Kung Jin
Scorpion
Sonya
Cassie
KL
Kenshi

B
Johnny Cage
Sub
Ermac
Jacqui Briggs
Shinnok
Ferra Torr
Liu Kang
Kano

C
Mileena
Kotal Kahn
Jason
Reptile

D
Kitana
Takeda
Goro
I'd swap Liu Kang with Takeda and that's pretty much my tier list
 

Zephyrus

TYM resident party pooper
He's being sarcastic. He is/was the first to tell you Goro was THE bottom character.

Now, personally I know Goro is bottom but didn't feel he was that bad, but that's probably bias on my part.
That's because no character in this game is that bad. But it's obvious his tools aren't as good as most of the cast. Atleast he isn't Sheeva bad.

I do want him buffed though. I enjoy using him and enjoy watching him being played.