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Official MK9 Community Matchup Chart

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
If you find a FG where the ENTIRE community got a say in the tiers, post it here please
Smash.......Do I need to say more? LOL. but if all I have to do is chill out while you guys do the heavy lifting that is cool too.:D

Edit: Oh...i forgot to mention BB too!
 

Sabin

Elder God
I def think you need more than one experienced player to discuss matchups. There is no way that everyone knows every matchup in the game right now for their main in this point in time. I would hope that most ppl would agree hehe. 2-3 good player per char would be good
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
I def think you need more than one experienced player to discuss matchups. There is no way that everyone knows every matchup in the game right now for their main in this point in time. I would hope that most ppl would agree hehe. 2-3 good player per char would be good
Agreed ^^

I have a ton of matchup experience vs lao, raiden, kano, smoke, and noob.

16-bit has a lot of sektor and probably sonya experience (and much more I am sure)

CD has a ton of cyrax, sub, jax, and rain experience (and more)

We will work collectively and the list will be more complete. I mean... I have virtually NO rain experience and my only true sektor experience is at EVO and online (lol).
 

funkdoc

Apprentice
On that note, DBarrett really should be involved in the Kano matchups. He's played a lot against the Valley Stream Monsters crew, so he could add a lot on some important matchups I barely know anything about (e.g. Jax, Rain).

And does funkpanda still play Kano? He was the first good one to appear, but I haven't heard anything from him in forever.
 

funkdoc

Apprentice
I'll just leave this here...some of this is preliminary.

Kano Matchups:

vs. Kung Lao: 4.5-5.5 (f+1 being useless hurts bad here, particularly since Kano's d4 isn't the greatest)
vs. Raiden: possibly 5-5 (less recovery on knife + more recovery on teleport would allow you to safely zone him)
vs. Kabal: 4-6
vs. Cyrax: feels like 4.5-5.5 to me but possibly 4-6 (reminds me a lot of Vanilla Sagat vs. Dhalsim - Kano has all the right tools for this match, but Cyrax does twice as much damage from an average combo and unlike Sagat can set up that damage from a distance)
vs. Reptile: 4.5-5.5 or 5-5 (need to get a better idea of how much EX slide matters)
vs. Johnny Cage: 4.5-5.5 (see KL description - you can't win a matchup entirely on zoning in this game unless you have a good air projectile or something else unique like ice clone, or unless the other character's offense isn't scary enough to make up for getting zoned the majority of the time. That last statement definitely doesn't apply to KL or Cage!)
vs. Sub-Zero: 3.5-6.5
vs. Kitana: 6-4 (getting back the old knife is real nice against iAFs, and if she starts doing non-instant AFs you can straight ball on reaction. her normals being so slow is also a problem)
vs. Mileena: 4.5-5.5 or quite possibly 4-6 (teleport owns your zoning, no answer to d4 besides jumpkick and hope you don't get AAed with teleport or roll, can't stuff her wakeup moves anymore with the new patch, and even if you do get in your best frametrap is worthless against her)
vs. Jax: 5-5 or possibly lower (need to see how much new patch matters here, haven't played a good Jax extensively yet)
vs. Smoke: 5.5-4.5 or maybe 5-5
vs. Liu Kang: 5.5-4.5
vs. Nightwolf: 5-5
vs. Scorpion: 5-5
vs. Sektor: 4.5-5.5 (again can't use your best frametraps, he prob wins projectile trades w/ the knockdown, not sure how practical iATU is on knives)
vs. Sonya: 5.5-4.5
vs. Noob Saibot: 5-5? (again haven't played one since new patch, he still can't really get out of pressure but idk)
vs. Shang Tsung: no idea, 5-5 as a *very* rough estimate (both characters have strong pressure and gained viable armor moves)
vs. Ermac: 5.5-4.5
vs. Cyber Sub-Zero: 5.5-4.5
vs. Sheeva: 6-4
vs. Baraka: 6-4
vs. Stryker: not sure but less than 6-4 (don't know how the zoning goes but at least he has a great armor move)
vs. Quan Chi: 6-4
vs. Sindel: 5.5-4.5 (zoning is rough but EX ball helps and she gets mauled up close)
vs. Jade: 6-4 (upball goes right through her during EX glow and it's hard if not impossible for her to punish, lol)
vs. Skarlet: 5.5-4.5
vs. Kenshi: 4-6 (you lose the trades and don't have much of anything special to get in, though straight ball may be able to hit some of his stuff on reaction. could be better, need to play this more)
vs. the other DLC characters: don't even know enough to throw out a guess, but should get to play a bunch vs. Freddy this Sunday
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
I love this idea. But don't you think it's unfair to make it top players only for each character? I mean you don't need to be top to know who your character sucks against and who your character beats. But hey, I think my way would be faster but I can understand why you guys are taking this path.
SSF4's "official" tier list was made by top players and nobody complained. Nobody complained because they knew a matchup chart made by randoms would have random numbers and be completely useless.

Average players think Scorpion is low tier because teleport and spear are unsafe on block. And they think Kano is #1 because they can't punish Up Ball online. They get destroyed by Noob's shadow clones and have no idea how to get past Ermac's push. Imagine if those inexperienced players would have their word to say about matchups. It would be a disaster.

Top players have the most experience and knowledge so it's only natural that they should be the ones designing tier lists and matchup charts. I don't even understand why some people don't get this. Have you guys never played another fighting game besides MK? Do you not know what a matchup chart is and how useful it can be when it's well done?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Vulcan is pretty much correct. It's impossible to make a matchup chart as accurate as humanly possible when there's input from players who do not possess the knowledge and experience high level players do. I wish we could include everyone's input, but that's just how it is.
 

DanCock

Cock Master!!
i dont think i should be involved in any kind of match up chart discussion.. my basic game skills is pretty shit so i dont think i can be a proper judge on how character x is vs x.

until i correct this issue i been having this past month i dont feel im a good judge.
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
i dont think i should be involved in any kind of match up chart discussion.. my basic game skills is pretty shit so i dont think i can be a proper judge on how character x is vs x.

until i correct this issue i been having this past month i dont feel im a good judge.
I know what you mean. I also feel I'm not that great of a player myself. But really, there's just no real Stryker rep out there lol. Even though I don't consider myself at the same level than REO/Perfect Legend, I probably know a lot more about Stryker than both of them combined. And I'm pretty confident I have more than enough matchup experience to give constructive input on my main.

btw, if we're having 3 players per character like Sabin and Konqrr suggested, then there's also dookieagain, CRKfiend and Ramen0/PoliceBrutality who have a lot of experience with Stryker. I feel a little uncomfortable deciding which one of them would be the better judges for this so I'll just let them decide. :p But they all know their stuff.
 

CY MasterHavik

Master of Chaos and Jax
SSF4's "official" tier list was made by top players and nobody complained. Nobody complained because they knew a matchup chart made by randoms would have random numbers and be completely useless.

Average players think Scorpion is low tier because teleport and spear are unsafe on block. And they think Kano is #1 because they can't punish Up Ball online. They get destroyed by Noob's shadow clones and have no idea how to get past Ermac's push. Imagine if those inexperienced players would have their word to say about matchups. It would be a disaster.

Top players have the most experience and knowledge so it's only natural that they should be the ones designing tier lists and matchup charts. I don't even understand why some people don't get this. Have you guys never played another fighting game besides MK? Do you not know what a matchup chart is and how useful it can be when it's well done?
Hey you make a good point. You guys do what it do.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
SSF4's "official" tier list was made by top players and nobody complained. Nobody complained because they knew a matchup chart made by randoms would have random numbers and be completely useless.

Average players think Scorpion is low tier because teleport and spear are unsafe on block. And they think Kano is #1 because they can't punish Up Ball online. They get destroyed by Noob's shadow clones and have no idea how to get past Ermac's push. Imagine if those inexperienced players would have their word to say about matchups. It would be a disaster.

Top players have the most experience and knowledge so it's only natural that they should be the ones designing tier lists and matchup charts. I don't even understand why some people don't get this. Have you guys never played another fighting game besides MK? Do you not know what a matchup chart is and how useful it can be when it's well done?
^^Truth
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Most of the people in the Kano forum have it as 6-4 Kano and that was my very tentative rating in my post there. It feels more like 5.5-4.5 Kano the more I play though. Not being able to toss knives is a bigger deal than I originally thought since he apparently has the old knife recovery back.

But straight ball seems to punish all dive kicks from what I can tell, and CSZ is one of the characters who can't crouch f+11. His pokes are obviously weak aside from b+22, so stay in f+1/b+1 range and Kano should have it I think. Most Kano players still seem to think of him as keepaway with knives/upball, when the real heart of his game is hanging around mid-range. That's where CSZ is weakest, hence why I like this match.
we should play then talk :)

Your sig quote is hilarious

and im willing to discuss and answer all questions regarding CSZ and this:

8-2 vs Quan Chi
7-3 vs Jade
6-4 vs Reptile
6-4 vs Sheeva
6-4 vs Baraka
6-4 vs NW
6-4 vs Ermac
6-4 vs Skarlet
6-4 vs Shang
5-5 vs Raiden
5-5 vs Rain
5-5 vs Sektor
5-5 vs Cyrax
5-5 vs Jax
5-5 vs Kung Lao
5-5 vs Smoke
5-5 vs Sonya Blade
5-5 vs Noob Saibot
5-5 vs Freddy Krueger
5-5 vs Johnny Cage
5-5 vs Sindel
5-5 vs Kano
5-5 vs Mileena
4.5-5.5 Scorpion
4-6 vs Kabal
4-6 vs Kenshi
4-6 vs Sub-Zero
4-6 vs Stryker
4-6 vs Liu Kang
3-7 vs Kitana



My only unsure ones would be Sonya, freddy, Rain (need to test some stuff)

Raiden might be 4.5-5.5 in CSZ favor but need Bwizz to test some stuff w me
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Your sig quote is hilarious
I would have replied on the thread that he posted that in, but it was closed so I had to expose it in my sig for all to see.

I will work on Kitana's matchups as far as I know them (no rain, freddy, skarlet as I don't know the matchups at all) soon.
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
You sure CSZ vs Ermac is 6-4?
I'm with Slim on this one. CSZ can't dive kick against Ermac, he can't teleport and his iceball is so ass that Ermac can iATP on reaction for a free safe jump setup. What gives? Teach me, Sensei Pig.

EDIT: Kitana Matchups by Konqrr


6.5-3.5 - Baraka
He has a really hard time getting in and building meter. His fullscreen armor blade helps a little

6-4 - Cyber Sub-Zero
Kitana controls the air which shuts down dive kick. He has a hard time getting in. Teleport is punished by 2~lift

4.5-5.5 - Cyrax
Kitana gets edged out by 75% one bar reset combos. Matchup is a zoning war. Footsies.

6-4 - Ermac
Blocked lift or teleport means 45% combo. Push shuts down iAF from anywhere but fullscreen, but is nullified by dash blocking. 3/4 screen whiffed push nets Kitana 40% one bar. Ermac unsafe moves are extremely unsafe when blocked where Kitana's unsafe moves are not punished by big damage.

4-6 - Freddy
Entirely theory fighter. Teleport is punished just like Smoke's. Glove throw just like Kano's knives. Ground blades are just like Shang's up skulls.

5-5 - Jade
Heavily discussed and argued matchup. I personally feel it is even because of the damage output of Kitana and how insanely unsafe the boomerangs are which Kitana can jump over and punish with 40%. But it could be in Jade's favor. I just don't have that much exp in this matchup.

6-4 - Jax
Jax has an extremely hard time getting in without meter, but once he is in, it is very difficult to get him off of you. Jax wins if he corners you. CD and CDjr can tune in here.

6-4 - Johnny Cage
He has a hard time building meter until he gets in. He has a hard time getting in. Cage f32 whiffs if Kitana blocks the 3 and ducks the 2. She can then punish with a full combo.

4-6 - Kabal
Kabal owns the air where Kitana reigns. True iABGs hit Kitana out of ground fan throw which is her only option against iAGB until she is in range. Once Kitana gets in, Kabal's up close game is much better than hers so she must rely on fan damage and projectile advantage to get him to the corner.

4-6 - Kano
Was 7-3 before knife and upball were nerfed, now it's 6-4. He still outzones her with knives.

3.5-6.5 - Kenshi
Kenshi is THE anti-Kitana character. He shuts her down in every aspect. She must make good reads (guess) to punish him, and punish hard when she does.

6-4 - Kung Lao
Even though Lao was nerfed yet again, he still extremely good. But like so many other characters, he has a hard time getting in safely.

4.5-5.5 - Liu Kang
Footsies. Zoning battle. Liu's low fireball completely shuts down her iAF game. d1 is punished by b312 into 37% or 43% in the corner with no meter.

4.5-5.5 - Mileena
Kitana must be very careful throwing fans. She must slowly get Mileena to the corner where she can pressure Mileena into doing tk or ex tk which Kitana can punish.

6-4 - Nightwolf
d1 completely shuts down Nightwolf's offense. Nightwolf f31 is duckable on the second hit and punished by full combo. Kitana has no safe answer to avoid unblockable lightning after a shoulder charge.

6-4 - Noob Saibot
Kitana almost always gets the first hit bonus with d1 (blocked shadow is punished by ff~d1). Up shadow is punished by f21 or ex fan. Once Noob is cornered, he has no safe way out and he gets cornered easily.

6-4 - Quan Chi

4-6 - Raiden
Raiden with meter shuts down any fan throws. Superman hits, you are cornered. Teleport gets Raiden in for free on any fan throw for f24 chip. It's Raiden.

5-5 - Rain
I'll let CD or CDjr do this one.

4.5-5.5 - Reptile
Kitana has no answer for forceball after she is knocked down. She is hit with dash if she tried square boost then she is back in the mixup again. She can safely throw iAF on Reptile all day until he has Xray.

6-4 - Scorpion
16-bit vs Slips

5-5 - Sektor
16-bit vs Sektroll

4-6 - Shang Tsung
I do not have much exp here. From what I have experienced, she has no safe distance to throw iAF except from absolute fullscreen. Shang's f434 whiffs a ducking blocking Kitana on the second hit, she can mash d1 to get out.

7-3 - Sheeva
Telestomp is a non-issue due to square boost. You can iAF all day on Sheeva and there isn't much she can do about it.

6-4 - Sindel
Sindel afb hits you, 8%. Kitana air fan hits you, she gets 30-35% from fullscreen. Kitana punishes much harder.

5-5 - Skarlet
No high level exp in this matchup, but with the dash and knife nerfs I put it even.

6-4 - Smoke
iAF all smoke bombs, if close enough she can use ex for a full combo. Footsies range (just outside sweep distance), Smoke has NO safe options. Everything option he has is punished. Shake is a non-issue because Kitana does not fight Smoke with iAF or ground fans.

6-4 - Sonya Blade
Sonya has a hard time getting in and cannot punish d1 with anything but dive kick in anticipation.

5.5-4.5 - Stryker
Stryker's new armor on ex roll helps him a lot in this matchup. Before, Kitana could d1 him out of whatever roll he tried. She can still get in on him easily by dashing and d1 (ff~d1). If roll is anticipated, she can njp for 35-40%. Could be 5-5 or 5.5 for Stryker once more time has passed and his buffs are fully fleshed out.

6-4 - Sub-Zero
Freeze trade is not in Kitana's favor with extra 10 frames on iceball. Sub's corner game is very difficult for Kitana, square boost is punished by slide or ex slide (back in the corner) every time.

TOTAL = 158