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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-Up Chart

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Deleted member 5032

Guest
Against catwoman you have to respect her jump whip and watch for her dash when midscreen. It's weird for DS to not have midscreen advantage which is why a lot of DS players struggle with this MU I think.
Here's footage of me fighting Perfect Legend's Nightwing. I wasn't playing my greatest, but it should still be useful for analyzing what I could have done differently (it starts at 1:05 and the sound is way out of synch):
 

Vagrant

Champion
Here's footage of me fighting Perfect Legend's Nightwing. I wasn't playing my greatest, but it should still be useful for analyzing what I could have done differently (it starts at 1:05):
Yeah I've been meaning to check out your sets with his nightwing I watched your sets against his DD and thought you did pretty well for not knowing the MU. I'll study these after work and give you my opinion on the matchup
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
Yeah I've been meaning to check out your sets with his nightwing I watched your sets against his DD and thought you did pretty well for not knowing the MU. I'll study these after work and give you my opinion on the matchup
Thanks. It was pretty laggy, which is why you see so many dropped combos and missed specials (every time I do a b1 from full-screen, that's a dropped Low Shot...).
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Oh and Doomsday too. I have no idea how you think that's an advantage. That's the first real matchup I thought was bad. But eh, waddo I know, maybe you're right. His pressure up close is insane, and I'm not one of those guys that just eat MB Supernovas.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Oh and Doomsday too. I have no idea how you think that's an advantage. That's the first real matchup I thought was bad. But eh, waddo I know, maybe you're right. His pressure up close is insane, and I'm not one of those guys that just eat MB Supernovas.
Corner is doomsdays playground. Other than that I think deathstroke handles him IF AND ONLY IF You know all of his frame rules and all of your options/punishments. I can break it down later. Iags and lowgs are your friends in this MU.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Aquaman - Even
Superman - Disadvantage
Batman - Even
Green Lantern - Advantage
Ares - Advantage
Bane - Advantage.... Big fucking advantage....
Black Adam - Even
Catwoman - Even (could be advantage DS)
Cyborg - Even
Doomsday - Advantage
Flash - Advantage
Green Arrow - Advantage
Harley - Advantage
Hawkgirl - Big advantage
Joker - Advantage ( I need to run this more)
Killer Frost - Even
Lex - Advantage
Nightwing - Even
Raven - Disadvantage
Shazam - Advantage
Sinestro - Even
Grundy - Advantage
Wonder Woman - Advantage
Lobo - Advantage
Losing match ups at this moment are versus Black Adam, Cyborg, Doomsday, and Superman. Nightwing concerns me.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Losing match ups at this moment are versus Black Adam, Cyborg, Doomsday, and Superman. Nightwing concerns me.
I refuse to believe Deathstroke loses to doomsday and I've fought the only one to win a significant tournament with him.

Adam you could be right, i need to run it more with HAN

Cyborg I need to run more
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
Attempting to MB a f3 or b3 is dangerous because Superman's f23 can break armor, even without his trait, leading to a 30%+ combo.
Which part? Because when I go into F2,3 -> Cold Breath pressure against the AI, the AI will MB B3 me after the Cold Breath while my next F2,3 is trying to come out.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Which part? Because when I go into F2,3 -> Cold Breath pressure against the AI, the AI will MB B3 me after the Cold Breath while my next F2,3 is trying to come out.
I've done this to soonk as well. It's a tight window, but doable. I didn't understand that part of his summary either.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I refuse to believe Deathstroke loses to doomsday and I've fought the only one to win a significant tournament with him.

Adam you could be right, i need to run it more with HAN

Cyborg I need to run more
I understand that Doomsday may change for the better.

I fight Master D.'s Black Adam off-line and REO's online. This character does lots of damage and is very safe and difficult to zone. He is like a much, much better Cyber Sub Zero. LOL.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Which part? Because when I go into F2,3 -> Cold Breath pressure against the AI, the AI will MB B3 me after the Cold Breath while my next F2,3 is trying to come out.
Superman's f23 is fast enough for both hits to connect before the armored move finishes. You would think that wouldn't happen very often, but it's probably happened to me a dozen times in the last 2 days.

As far as Doomsday goes, he actually can't get through standard gunshots. He has to just block/dash/jump like anyone else. Gunshots break his armor, and MB Nova Drop takes a 36% punish on reaction. In the corner pushblock is your best friend, just make sure not to use it before the 2nd hit of a MB Venom Charge or you'll straight-up eat the damage while losing a meter.
 

NB Semi Evil Ryu

Former Sub-Zero of the Midwest (2011 - 2015)
Superman's f23 is fast enough for both hits to connect before the armored move finishes.
Ok yeah, that part is definitely true. I thought that you were originally referring to the space between a blocked F2,3 -> Cold Breath string and a second F2,3 string. THAT part you can MB B3 out of (Batman can also parry).
 

Utricle

Noob
Superman is at best a 6/4, but probably 7/3, in Superman's favor, based on the following reasons:

1. Once Superman gets you in the corner (and he will get you in the corner), Deathstroke's only options are to eat a full combo and pray that Sword Spin comes out as a wakeup, or he can pushbock. Let's examine those options:

If you do manage to get Sword Spin to come out as a wakeup and Superman continues to bulldoze you with f23, you can spend 2 meter to get a 25% combo, or 19% with 1 meter (which he can Clash, wasting your meter in the process). If Sword Spin doesn't come out as a wakeup attack, you will eat another 30%+ combo. This will continue until you can get the stupid fucking wakeup system to work. If Superman reads that you will attempt a Sword Spin, wakeup or otherwise, he can simply do a jumping attack into a 30%+ combo. The only way to avoid this is to wakeup Sword Flip, which is never a good idea. Backdash isn't an option because Superman's f23 will catch it, leading into a 30%+ combo.

Pushblocking is a great option against most of the cast, but not Superman. The distance he gets pushblocked is horrible for DS. Gunshots are too negative on hit and block to be viable options. At best, you hit, deliver 6% damage, and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes and delivers a 30%+ combo while going back to bulldozing you with f23. You can try a j3, but he can punish this on reaction with a 30%+ combo. You can throw out a random Sword Flip, which will either deal 4% against an airborne Superman and not get a hard knockdown, or it will be blocked and punished with a 30%+ combo. And that's about it. Once you pushblock from the corner, you literally have no choice but to let Superman do whatever the fuck he wants, and attempt to react accordingly. Guess wrong and you eat a combo and are stuck back in the corner.

2. From midscreen, Superman's options beat anything Deathstroke can throw at him. I have literally been punched out of Sword Spin, mid-animation. Deathstroke's backdash does almost nothing against Superman, and you have to constantly be on the lookout for his low grab. Once he gets within range of his f23 pressure, it's a straight-up 50/50 game that leads to 30%+ combos. As always, you can pushblock to avoid his 50/50, but this is only a minor inconvenience to Superman, while it basically shuts down all of Deathstroke's options. As far as I can tell, Deathstroke has no way to get out of Superman's Super Breath frametrap, except with pushblock.

Attempting to MB a f3 or b3 is dangerous because Superman's f23 can break armor, even without his trait, leading to a 30%+ combo.

If you do manage to land a hit, you better make the most of it because you have to respect Superman's wakeup game. He's got at least 3 fully-invincible wakeup options (air grab, low grab, and flying punch). Low grab and punch are punishable if you can bait them out. However, if he doesn't take the bait then you are stuck within his f23 pressure range.

His f2 comes out in 8 frames, but seems to dominate a lot of faster moves. One of my friends starts out every match with f23. If I do anything other than jump or block, I eat it every time. Even if I start with my 7-frame Sword Spin, 7-frame Sword Flip, or backdash, the f23 beats me and I eat a 30%+ combo. If you are even remotely late following up one of your blocked f3, b3, or j3, all of which have massive block advantage, you will eat the f2.

Gunshots are extremely dangerous to use from midscreen. They can be used to keep Superman in check, and to keep him out of the air if you can predict his jumps, but that's about it. At best, you hit and deal 6% damage and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes over or ground-dashes under and you eat a 30%+ combo.

3. From full-screen it becomes a game of reads, however Superman does more damage. Thus it is up to the Deathstroke player to make the most correct reads, as a single bad gunshot can cost him up to 18% health. If Superman has full meter, the Deathstroke player literally can't make a move without suffering the wrath of Superman's 2-frame super move. From anywhere except absolutely full-screen, Superman can reversal a block gunshot with his super for up to 44% if his trait is active.

If you do start to win the zoning war, Superman can close the gap whenever he chooses. All he needs is a single knockdown or whiffed gunshot and get can get into f23 range.

Long story, short: Superman shuts down all of Deathstroke's options, except from absolutely full-screen, and even then it's a pretty evenly-matched fight, and Superman can easily close the gap with minimal effort. Every move Deathstroke makes is a total risk that, if punished, will lead to him taking 30%+ damage and being put in a disadvantageous position. Every move Superman makes is basically safe. Deathstroke literally has no defense against f23 pressure because pushblocking keeps him at just as much disadvantage as just eating the chip and guessing the 50/50.

Finally, d1 is one of the few pokes that can punish f23. However, because the input for Deathstroke's Low Shot is bd1, he is very likely to do Low Shot instead of d1, which will cause him to eat a full combo.

Very nice write up, Karaoke. I've played with you enough to know that this is pretty damn accurate, however I think 7-3 is a little harsh. MAYBE I'll give you 6-4 in supes favor, but honestly I think this is one of Supermans harder matchups(that's not saying much though :p he is a beast). Deathstroke is one of the only characters that Superman absolutely cannot beat in a ranged battle. Superman is usually able to get a decent chunk of health off his opponent and lure them in. With DS you are forced to rush him down which eliminates a big part about what makes Superman so great. All of DS's combos put Superman back to full screen where he can continue the zoning game.
 
D

Deleted member 5032

Guest
Very nice write up, Karaoke. I've played with you enough to know that this is pretty damn accurate, however I think 7-3 is a little harsh. MAYBE I'll give you 6-4 in supes favor, but honestly I think this is one of Supermans harder matchups(that's not saying much though :p he is a beast). Deathstroke is one of the only characters that Superman absolutely cannot beat in a ranged battle. Superman is usually able to get a decent chunk of health off his opponent and lure them in. With DS you are forced to rush him down which eliminates a big part about what makes Superman so great. All of DS's combos put Superman back to full screen where he can continue the zoning game.
That's true, but Superman can stand toe-to-toe with Deathstroke in a zoning war. If I guess right, you eat 6% damage (16% if I manage to catch you with a MB High Shot). If I guess wrong, I eat one of your more damaging blasts.
 

Utricle

Noob
Ehh that is true. Except Superman has to do almost all of the guessing, DS can react to almost anything Supes does.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
I'm not so sure if we could consider Grundy an easy MU. Once grundy gets a defense chain our zoning becomes way more inneficient. And I mean almost nullified. Grundy seems to need to get in just once, get the lifelead, and then DS has to go after him.

I'm not so sure if even DS Trait can help because he can Swamp Hands and cut off a big time of our unblockable bullets period. And then, after trait goes off... well...

On the other hand, until Grundy manages to get a grab, DS dominates. I'll call it an Even MU.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
Agreed with Raven having the advantage. Her tools seem to nullify DS options making it more linear.

m2dave Do you agree? also, why do you think Nightwing is a bad MU for Deathstroke?

Thanks
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Agreed with Raven having the advantage. Her tools seem to nullify DS options making it more linear.

m2dave Do you agree? also, why do you think Nightwing is a bad MU for Deathstroke?

Thanks
I do not see Raven beating Deathstroke. He is one of the few characters that Raven cannot out-zone. Absorbing bullets on reaction is impractical.

I will reserve my final opinion until I fight REO's Nightwing.
 

Owerbart

I miss you
I do not see Raven beating Deathstroke. He is one of the few characters that Raven cannot out-zone. Absorbing bullets on reaction is impractical.

I will reserve my final opinion until I fight REO's Nightwing.
I could agree with that. But on the other side, can DS really zone her?
 

TONY-T

Mad scientist
If you do manage to land a hit, you better make the most of it because you have to respect Superman's wakeup game. He's got at least 3 fully-invincible wakeup options (air grab, low grab, and flying punch). Low grab and punch are punishable if you can bait them out. However, if he doesn't take the bait then you are stuck within his f23 pressure range.
Ive found that you can duck all of supermans wakeup attacks. Low grab gets blocked and punished for 33% meterless. Rising grab gets ducked and punished for 28% meterless. Flying punch gets blocked and punished for up to 33% meterless, but its a tricky one to punish.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Ive found that you can duck all of supermans wakeup attacks. Low grab gets blocked and punished for 33% meterless. Rising grab gets ducked and punished for 28% meterless. Flying punch gets blocked and punished for up to 33% meterless, but its a tricky one to punish.
What punish are we using here? 132 can punish rising grab if you duck it for 35% I believe.