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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-Up Chart

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Mathup advice vs sinestro anyone? i get out zoned by that POS on a consistant basis. Feel like i spend the whole match chasing him around the level.
Out-zoned? How?

Shackles (d,b+1) and Impact Event (d,b+2) are full screen punishable by quick fire, limiting Sinestro to fear blast (d,f+1). I believe fear blast is the fastest projectile in the game, but the recovery is rather long. At mid range, you crouch and whiff punish with quick fire.

On top of having the ability to keep his own in a projectile war, Deathstroke has superior normals, AA game, wake up, and super move. We should be fine in this match up unless NRS screws us with nerfs next week.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
My first match against sinestro was aginst woundcowboy.I have to say its a battle of patience,spacing and mind games.At the time I didn't know the MU well but still did pretty decent.With the right timing and range.I believe you can punish Fear Blast with low shots for free damage every time....I could be wrong since I still need more exp in that MU.Who would you say has a better upclose game? WoundCowboy karaokelove Pig Of The Hut
I think all accounts of this MU is 5-5

Trait opens the world for sinestro
 

Amadeous

Apprentice
I think DS Bane is 6-4 maybe 6.5-3.5.

Bane gets blown up by DS zoning. The only real threat I've been seeing is the lvl 3 venom.

Easily baitable. Jump over him, after you've done that he's free to machine gun as his super armor wears off. After hitting machine gun (Grenade launcher too if meter), use the opportunity to create space and zone more. Don't let this guy in at all.
 

RoGE

Kombatant
mb back-3 (charge) Doomsday's meteor smash (super nova?) for a full combo punish. This applies to every character fighting that annoying move.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
I believe Nightwing might be the first character I can confidently say is a 6/4 against DS. I'll post some match footage in a bit to back up my claim, but the main issue is that Nightwing can actually establish zoning momentum that is incredibly difficult for Deathstroke to break. On the other hand, Nightwing can break DS's zoning with a well-timed Air Shuriken. That means DS will actually have to close the gap a lot of the time, and Nightwing's rushdown beats his pretty handily.
 

GodsLonelyman

Kombatant
What do you guys think about the Doomsday matchup? The only issue I'm having with the matchup so far is when doomsday is point blank with trait activated. Not sure which strings to use to stop him with hit stun and be safe.
 

TONY-T

Mad scientist
What do you guys think about the Doomsday matchup? The only issue I'm having with the matchup so far is when doomsday is point blank with trait activated. Not sure which strings to use to stop him with hit stun and be safe.
Ive been experimenting with this. So far it doesn't look good for Deathstroke. Doomsday is highly punishable, but when that trait is activated, it makes things very difficult.
 

GodsLonelyman

Kombatant
Ive been experimenting with this. So far it doesn't look good for Deathstroke. Doomsday is highly punishable, but when that trait is activated, it makes things very difficult.
Yea thats my only issue in that matchup. When he has trait and he gets in, everything goes to hell. I'm gonan hit the lab tomorrow and see what can be done about his trait point blank. For now I've been using f23-db3 and spamming d1's. Doesn;t work too well. I might just use aquaman in this match if I can't figure out a strategy with DS. Aquaman does really well vs Doomsday
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Ive been experimenting with vs. Doomsday+trait. It seems 3231 will go all the way through if you are hitting him with his trait up, and safely end at 32 if he blocks it. I'm not exactly sure how safe 3231 is on hit though, but it DOES have 4 hits and leaves DS airborne once hes done with it.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
Superman is at best a 6/4, but probably 7/3, in Superman's favor, based on the following reasons:

1. Once Superman gets you in the corner (and he will get you in the corner), Deathstroke's only options are to eat a full combo and pray that Sword Spin comes out as a wakeup, or he can pushbock. Let's examine those options:

If you do manage to get Sword Spin to come out as a wakeup and Superman continues to bulldoze you with f23, you can spend 2 meter to get a 25% combo, or 19% with 1 meter (which he can Clash, wasting your meter in the process). If Sword Spin doesn't come out as a wakeup attack, you will eat another 30%+ combo. This will continue until you can get the stupid fucking wakeup system to work. If Superman reads that you will attempt a Sword Spin, wakeup or otherwise, he can simply do a jumping attack into a 30%+ combo. The only way to avoid this is to wakeup Sword Flip, which is never a good idea. Backdash isn't an option because Superman's f23 will catch it, leading into a 30%+ combo.

Pushblocking is a great option against most of the cast, but not Superman. The distance he gets pushblocked is horrible for DS. Gunshots are too negative on hit and block to be viable options. At best, you hit, deliver 6% damage, and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes and delivers a 30%+ combo while going back to bulldozing you with f23. You can try a j3, but he can punish this on reaction with a 30%+ combo. You can throw out a random Sword Flip, which will either deal 4% against an airborne Superman and not get a hard knockdown, or it will be blocked and punished with a 30%+ combo. And that's about it. Once you pushblock from the corner, you literally have no choice but to let Superman do whatever the fuck he wants, and attempt to react accordingly. Guess wrong and you eat a combo and are stuck back in the corner.

2. From midscreen, Superman's options beat anything Deathstroke can throw at him. I have literally been punched out of Sword Spin, mid-animation. Deathstroke's backdash does almost nothing against Superman, and you have to constantly be on the lookout for his low grab. Once he gets within range of his f23 pressure, it's a straight-up 50/50 game that leads to 30%+ combos. As always, you can pushblock to avoid his 50/50, but this is only a minor inconvenience to Superman, while it basically shuts down all of Deathstroke's options. As far as I can tell, Deathstroke has no way to get out of Superman's Super Breath frametrap, except with pushblock.

Attempting to MB a f3 or b3 is dangerous because Superman's f23 can break armor, even without his trait, leading to a 30%+ combo.

If you do manage to land a hit, you better make the most of it because you have to respect Superman's wakeup game. He's got at least 3 fully-invincible wakeup options (air grab, low grab, and flying punch). Low grab and punch are punishable if you can bait them out. However, if he doesn't take the bait then you are stuck within his f23 pressure range.

His f2 comes out in 8 frames, but seems to dominate a lot of faster moves. One of my friends starts out every match with f23. If I do anything other than jump or block, I eat it every time. Even if I start with my 7-frame Sword Spin, 7-frame Sword Flip, or backdash, the f23 beats me and I eat a 30%+ combo. If you are even remotely late following up one of your blocked f3, b3, or j3, all of which have massive block advantage, you will eat the f2.

Gunshots are extremely dangerous to use from midscreen. They can be used to keep Superman in check, and to keep him out of the air if you can predict his jumps, but that's about it. At best, you hit and deal 6% damage and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes over or ground-dashes under and you eat a 30%+ combo.

3. From full-screen it becomes a game of reads, however Superman does more damage. Thus it is up to the Deathstroke player to make the most correct reads, as a single bad gunshot can cost him up to 18% health. If Superman has full meter, the Deathstroke player literally can't make a move without suffering the wrath of Superman's 2-frame super move. From anywhere except absolutely full-screen, Superman can reversal a block gunshot with his super for up to 44% if his trait is active.

If you do start to win the zoning war, Superman can close the gap whenever he chooses. All he needs is a single knockdown or whiffed gunshot and get can get into f23 range.

Long story, short: Superman shuts down all of Deathstroke's options, except from absolutely full-screen, and even then it's a pretty evenly-matched fight, and Superman can easily close the gap with minimal effort. Every move Deathstroke makes is a total risk that, if punished, will lead to him taking 30%+ damage and being put in a disadvantageous position. Every move Superman makes is basically safe. Deathstroke literally has no defense against f23 pressure because pushblocking keeps him at just as much disadvantage as just eating the chip and guessing the 50/50.

Finally, d1 is one of the few pokes that can punish f23. However, because the input for Deathstroke's Low Shot is bd1, he is very likely to do Low Shot instead of d1, which will cause him to eat a full combo.
 

Vagrant

Champion
a bunch of text
I think it's slight advantage superman. I don't think DS is helpless. I think his hope is full screen, reacting to what superman does. and then with deathstroke up close i think you have to hit and run basically. You don't want to trade momentum with superman.

I ran it with GGA soonk whose superman is getting really really fucking good. and while i made plenty of stupid non matchup related mistakes, I could tell this matchup was a tougher one for DS based on what both chars had to do.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Superman is at best a 6/4, but probably 7/3, in Superman's favor, based on the following reasons:

1. Once Superman gets you in the corner (and he will get you in the corner), Deathstroke's only options are to eat a full combo and pray that Sword Spin comes out as a wakeup, or he can pushbock. Let's examine those options:

If you do manage to get Sword Spin to come out as a wakeup and Superman continues to bulldoze you with f23, you can spend 2 meter to get a 25% combo, or 19% with 1 meter (which he can Clash, wasting your meter in the process). If Sword Spin doesn't come out as a wakeup attack, you will eat another 30%+ combo. This will continue until you can get the stupid fucking wakeup system to work. If Superman reads that you will attempt a Sword Spin, wakeup or otherwise, he can simply do a jumping attack into a 30%+ combo. The only way to avoid this is to wakeup Sword Flip, which is never a good idea. Backdash isn't an option because Superman's f23 will catch it, leading into a 30%+ combo.

Pushblocking is a great option against most of the cast, but not Superman. The distance he gets pushblocked is horrible for DS. Gunshots are too negative on hit and block to be viable options. At best, you hit, deliver 6% damage, and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes and delivers a 30%+ combo while going back to bulldozing you with f23. You can try a j3, but he can punish this on reaction with a 30%+ combo. You can throw out a random Sword Flip, which will either deal 4% against an airborne Superman and not get a hard knockdown, or it will be blocked and punished with a 30%+ combo. And that's about it. Once you pushblock from the corner, you literally have no choice but to let Superman do whatever the fuck he wants, and attempt to react accordingly. Guess wrong and you eat a combo and are stuck back in the corner.

2. From midscreen, Superman's options beat anything Deathstroke can throw at him. I have literally been punched out of Sword Spin, mid-animation. Deathstroke's backdash does almost nothing against Superman, and you have to constantly be on the lookout for his low grab. Once he gets within range of his f23 pressure, it's a straight-up 50/50 game that leads to 30%+ combos. As always, you can pushblock to avoid his 50/50, but this is only a minor inconvenience to Superman, while it basically shuts down all of Deathstroke's options. As far as I can tell, Deathstroke has no way to get out of Superman's Super Breath frametrap, except with pushblock.

Attempting to MB a f3 or b3 is dangerous because Superman's f23 can break armor, even without his trait, leading to a 30%+ combo.

If you do manage to land a hit, you better make the most of it because you have to respect Superman's wakeup game. He's got at least 3 fully-invincible wakeup options (air grab, low grab, and flying punch). Low grab and punch are punishable if you can bait them out. However, if he doesn't take the bait then you are stuck within his f23 pressure range.

His f2 comes out in 8 frames, but seems to dominate a lot of faster moves. One of my friends starts out every match with f23. If I do anything other than jump or block, I eat it every time. Even if I start with my 7-frame Sword Spin, 7-frame Sword Flip, or backdash, the f23 beats me and I eat a 30%+ combo. If you are even remotely late following up one of your blocked f3, b3, or j3, all of which have massive block advantage, you will eat the f2.

Gunshots are extremely dangerous to use from midscreen. They can be used to keep Superman in check, and to keep him out of the air if you can predict his jumps, but that's about it. At best, you hit and deal 6% damage and are left at disadvantage. At worst, he air-dashes over or ground-dashes under and you eat a 30%+ combo.

3. From full-screen it becomes a game of reads, however Superman does more damage. Thus it is up to the Deathstroke player to make the most correct reads, as a single bad gunshot can cost him up to 18% health. If Superman has full meter, the Deathstroke player literally can't make a move without suffering the wrath of Superman's 2-frame super move. From anywhere except absolutely full-screen, Superman can reversal a block gunshot with his super for up to 44% if his trait is active.

If you do start to win the zoning war, Superman can close the gap whenever he chooses. All he needs is a single knockdown or whiffed gunshot and get can get into f23 range.

Long story, short: Superman shuts down all of Deathstroke's options, except from absolutely full-screen, and even then it's a pretty evenly-matched fight, and Superman can easily close the gap with minimal effort. Every move Deathstroke makes is a total risk that, if punished, will lead to him taking 30%+ damage and being put in a disadvantageous position. Every move Superman makes is basically safe. Deathstroke literally has no defense against f23 pressure because pushblocking keeps him at just as much disadvantage as just eating the chip and guessing the 50/50.

Finally, d1 is one of the few pokes that can punish f23. However, because the input for Deathstroke's Low Shot is bd1, he is very likely to do Low Shot instead of d1, which will cause him to eat a full combo.
How nice of you to write up some substantial matchup info. This board needs more of that, and less discussion about nerfs.
You make it sound like a total nightmare though. Might I ask who you are playing? I'm not saying you're wrong, but all the Superman knowledge I have atm is just online Supermans.

And I still dont seem to have the same D1 problem you have. If that last note means as much as I think it is, then D1 might just be the key to making this matchup not hell.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
I think it's slight advantage superman. I don't think DS is helpless. I think his hope is full screen, reacting to what superman does. and then with deathstroke up close i think you have to hit and run basically. You don't want to trade momentum with superman.

I ran it with GGA soonk whose superman is getting really really fucking good. and while i made plenty of stupid non matchup related mistakes, I could tell this matchup was a tougher one for DS based on what both chars had to do.
I pretty firmly believe it's a 7/3 at best. If the Superman player knows the MU, Deathstroke literally has no options except to just spam gunshot patterns. Even trying to armor a b3 or f3 as an anti-wakeup can get punished because of Superman's ridiculous backdash. That backdash is the bane of my existence.
 

Vagrant

Champion
How nice of you to write up some substantial matchup info. This board needs more of that, and less discussion about nerfs.
You make it sound like a total nightmare though. Might I ask who you are playing? I'm not saying you're wrong, but all the Superman knowledge I have atm is just online Supermans.
Superman isn't superman online. Since frame rules don't really apply. I beat almost every single online superman i've fought including CD jr. It doesn't mean shit online lol
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
How nice of you to write up some substantial matchup info. This board needs more of that, and less discussion about nerfs.
You make it sound like a total nightmare though. Might I ask who you are playing? I'm not saying you're wrong, but all the Superman knowledge I have atm is just online Supermans.

And I still dont seem to have the same D1 problem you have. If that last note means as much as I think it is, then D1 might just be the key to making this matchup not hell.
I've friended a few high-level Superman players on xbox live. Utricle and HipFreddy are definitely the 2 best SM players I've friended.

The d1 is definitely an issue, and has cost me a few fights, but even if the d1 came out 100% of the time, those other issues can become insurmountable, especially once Superman gets his momentum going.
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
Just curious, are you guys blocking low with :d or :qtl?
Both, it just depends. Usually db, even though I try to block low with down and high with back. It just feels weird pressing down to block.
 

Vagrant

Champion
alrighty boys heres what I think so far for deathstroke.

I'm not gonna put numbers on these matchups yet. just advantage (for DS), disadvantage (for DS), and even.
This is not set in stone and is subject to change as I discover more in any/each matchup.
Some of these I've run ALOT.
Some of these not as much as i'd like to.
But i have run DS sets against every char in IGAU and here are my opinions on the matchups.


Aquaman - Even
Superman - Disadvantage
Batman - Even
Green Lantern - Advantage
Ares - Advantage
Bane - Advantage.... Big fucking advantage....
Black Adam - Even
Catwoman - Even (could be advantage DS)
Cyborg - Even
Doomsday - Advantage
Flash - Advantage
Green Arrow - Advantage
Harley - Advantage
Hawkgirl - Big advantage
Joker - Advantage ( I need to run this more)
Killer Frost - Even
Lex - Advantage
Nightwing - Even
Raven - Disadvantage
Shazam - Advantage
Sinestro - Even
Grundy - Advantage
Wonder Woman - Advantage
Lobo - Advantage


Anybody who thinks I'm downplaying this char can blow me.

Bring on the Salt.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Both, it just depends. Usually db, even though I try to block low with down and high with back. It just feels weird pressing down to block.
It does at first, but perhaps this is the reason I dont get accidental low shots. I sorta just wish this game wasn't so "muddy" with its controls.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
alrighty boys heres what I think so far for deathstroke.

I'm not gonna put numbers on these matchups yet. just advantage (for DS), disadvantage (for DS), and even.
This is not set in stone and is subject to change as I discover more in any/each matchup.
Some of these I've run ALOT.
Some of these not as much as i'd like to.
But i have run DS sets against every char in IGAU and here are my opinions on the matchups.

Anybody who thinks I'm downplaying this char can blow me.

Bring on the Salt.
This actually seems pretty good to me. However, I'm not so sure about Raven being a disadvantage. Slade wrecks her up close. Teleports can be punished with 1, air or ground.

Air teleport = 1, 323, F23 xx SF
Ground teleport = 132, Ji2, 323, F23 xx SF
 
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Deleted member 5032

Guest
It does at first, but perhaps this is the reason I dont get accidental low shots. I sorta just wish this game wasn't so "muddy" with its controls.
Well I don't get low-shot from blocking low. It's only going from back-to-block to d1. Even if I'm careful and return to neutral, which is pretty easy since I play on Hitbox, it still comes out sometimes.

And Vagrant, if you could post some info on the Nightwing and Catwoman MU's, I'd appreciate it. I have a lot of issues with Nightwing, and Catwoman's dashing attacks seems to be pretty hard to punish and gets her in free, kind of like KF's slide.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Well I don't get low-shot from blocking low. It's only going from back-to-block to d1. Even if I'm careful and return to neutral, which is pretty easy since I play on Hitbox, it still comes out sometimes.

And Vagrant, if you could post some info on the Nightwing and Catwoman MU's, I'd appreciate it. I have a lot of issues with Nightwing, and Catwoman's dashing attacks seems to be pretty hard to punish and gets her in free, kind of like KF's slide.
Oh ok I see your issue. Maybe try using :qtr to D1 instead?

And I'd like some Catwoman knowledge too. I haven't played it enough to fully understand it, but I have lost to some good kitties online (wasn't completely one sided however). That EX dash is super fast. At least you can jump over KF's slide on reaction. CW's berserker barrage catches you in the air and gives he a full combo. It's unpunishable on block, and something that totally blew my mind on game was that I MB B3ed the hit of the attack, and she STILL had time to block. Wtffffffffffffruitcakes.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Well I don't get low-shot from blocking low. It's only going from back-to-block to d1. Even if I'm careful and return to neutral, which is pretty easy since I play on Hitbox, it still comes out sometimes.

And Vagrant, if you could post some info on the Nightwing and Catwoman MU's, I'd appreciate it. I have a lot of issues with Nightwing, and Catwoman's dashing attacks seems to be pretty hard to punish and gets her in free, kind of like KF's slide.
I"ve run CW with 16 bit and D Que. Her dash while tough to punish is punishable on reaction. That is how most bad catwoman players will try to get in on you. Bait it and punish them. She has strong mixups upclose that lead to very respectable damage. (more than DS gets from his) her jump whip (i think its jump 2) takes away the threat of his jump 3 for the most part and makes her hard to iags. DS definitely has advantage full screen though and that will be where he gets alot of his damage against her. You want to bait her dash midscreen and zone her full screen when she gets close to coming in i like to armor an f3 and start my offense from there if she blocks it

I'll give you the nightwing run down a little later thats another one i'd like to run more.
 

Vagrant

Champion
Against catwoman you have to respect her jump whip and watch for her dash when midscreen. It's weird for DS to not have midscreen advantage which is why a lot of DS players struggle with this MU I think.