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Match-up Discussion Official Deathstroke Match-Up Chart

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
a frame perfect d1 or reversal sword spin on what? after the breath? or before breath? Superman's getting a nerf? how exactly is that string getting nerfed?

After blocking the breath. Breath is getting a frame advantage nerf post patch.
 

LALD.NET

Noob
Crouch block F23, stand block breath, Jb2.

Follow up combo: Jb2, 132, Ji2, 323, F23 xx Flip

Post Zod patch, a frame perfect D1 or reversal Sword Spin will work.
jump is faster then him pressing f23 after his breath? hmm, maybe its lag i haven't been able to jump that all the time online. i'll test offline when i get home today. thanks for the info brother!
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i really think deathstrokes rifle and trait need to be buffed. His rifle should be + on hit and safe on block.
 

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
How does he fair against WW? Does standing guns shut her air game down? She can't punish full screen low guns
 

Vagrant

Champion
Guys I honestly don't know where DS has the upper hand vs batman. There is so much going on in this matchup it's retarded. Not batman down the street.... I'm talking about a tournament calibur batman.

Mikman360 what do you have on this matchup?
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Guys I honestly don't know where DS has the upper hand vs batman. There is so much going on in this matchup it's retarded. Not batman down the street.... I'm talking about a tournament calibur batman.

Mikman360 what do you have on this matchup?

Honestly, it's a mixed bag for me, I'm probably just as lost as you are. It's certainly not in our favor I feel though. It's either even or slightly out of our favor. Batman's rush is so darn good, and his projectile game, oddly enough, isn't a joke either. But my personal experience is basically limited to online, as no one I play locally plays Batman all too well.

Coddfish knows a dude who plays Batman and Batgirl regularly. What's he got to say?
 

JokeStroke

Mortal
Batman ... is tricky if you are playing online don't even count it.

There are basically three types of batmen styles out there.

Run away and try to chip you to death with batarangs and bats.
Rush down behind flying bat trait.
Rush down without bat trait and use trait cancel to mixup b11 combo.

When I play batman I try to call 2 bats let the third charge so I can rush down behind 2 bats and have one for trait cancel. During charge time I am spamming batarangs running away. How fucking annoying does that sound?

At full screen you should be LGS spamming to chip him. If he begins to throw batarangs switch to MG because in a damage trade MG beats batarangs. This is the most favorable area for dstroke in this matchup. When you score a knock down you dont need to vortex or get in I think it's better to just back off and chip away imo.

If batman is rushing you down without trait you just need to zone correctly with dash mb F3, dash b1, dash b2 to kind of cut him off when he is in range. Mid range is still in your favor because SF will stop jump ins and MB F3 beat his options. Your dash combo starters have a high and low at hit one so you are still at an advantage midrange in my opinion.

His MB B3 is a good option but you can really just back jump your way out of it if you are at mid range.

Up close is the worst you just need to learn how to block then either mb F3 or back dash when his combos put himself at frame disadvantage.

The biggest problem is when batman sends his bat trait at mid range and dashes behind them. Or sends them on your wakeup. When you are blocked stunned by bats he will b11 or b23 you or crossup JF2 you.

If that's the case you can either block everything, you can jump over the bats with JF3 and hope he doesnt beat you in an air to air situation or D2 (in that situation you are aiming the J3 for the end of the dash so he cannot retaliate) or just ignore the bats and QS the dash because the QS trade with bats will be in your favor. If he blocks the QS he probably wont be able to complete the frame trap with the bats.

All those situations are very spacing specific.

If batman sends bats right in your face you just need to block or you're going to get blown up.

When I'm at mid range using batman im going to MB B3 without bats then use B2 or dash b113 with the frame advantage.

Or send two bats dash and do b23 or b113. As a mixup I can do b112 (the overhead) if I score a knockdown I can call bats and send on your wakeup or if you are used to blocking the 2 overhead ill b11 trait b11 again.

That's basically how you use Batman its just a variation of those two strings with trait cancels. 113 and 223 can be interupted by d1 between hits 2 and 3 so I never use them and neither would any other batman that knows what he is doing.

So basically to beat batman know the projectile trades that will win. Win mid range footsies by avoiding his B3 and smacking him with your dash mixups. And know your options against his bats and the typical b11 and b2 mixups.

None of this will help you online because lag makes reacting to all this shit impossible. If you play online use aquaman. :D
 

Vagrant

Champion
Batman ... is tricky if you are playing online don't even count it.

There are basically three types of batmen styles out there.

Run away and try to chip you to death with batarangs and bats.
Rush down behind flying bat trait.
Rush down without bat trait and use trait cancel to mixup b11 combo.

When I play batman I try to call 2 bats let the third charge so I can rush down behind 2 bats and have one for trait cancel. During charge time I am spamming batarangs running away. How fucking annoying does that sound?

At full screen you should be LGS spamming to chip him. If he begins to throw batarangs switch to MG because in a damage trade MG beats batarangs. This is the most favorable area for dstroke in this matchup. When you score a knock down you dont need to vortex or get in I think it's better to just back off and chip away imo.

If batman is rushing you down without trait you just need to zone correctly with dash mb F3, dash b1, dash b2 to kind of cut him off when he is in range. Mid range is still in your favor because SF will stop jump ins and MB F3 beat his options. Your dash combo starters have a high and low at hit one so you are still at an advantage midrange in my opinion.

His MB B3 is a good option but you can really just back jump your way out of it if you are at mid range.

Up close is the worst you just need to learn how to block then either mb F3 or back dash when his combos put himself at frame disadvantage.

The biggest problem is when batman sends his bat trait at mid range and dashes behind them. Or sends them on your wakeup. When you are blocked stunned by bats he will b11 or b23 you or crossup JF2 you.

If that's the case you can either block everything, you can jump over the bats with JF3 and hope he doesnt beat you in an air to air situation or D2 (in that situation you are aiming the J3 for the end of the dash so he cannot retaliate) or just ignore the bats and QS the dash because the QS trade with bats will be in your favor. If he blocks the QS he probably wont be able to complete the frame trap with the bats.

All those situations are very spacing specific.

If batman sends bats right in your face you just need to block or you're going to get blown up.

When I'm at mid range using batman im going to MB B3 without bats then use B2 or dash b113 with the frame advantage.

Or send two bats dash and do b23 or b113. As a mixup I can do b112 (the overhead) if I score a knockdown I can call bats and send on your wakeup or if you are used to blocking the 2 overhead ill b11 trait b11 again.

That's basically how you use Batman its just a variation of those two strings with trait cancels. 113 and 223 can be interupted by d1 between hits 2 and 3 so I never use them and neither would any other batman that knows what he is doing.

So basically to beat batman know the projectile trades that will win. Win mid range footsies by avoiding his B3 and smacking him with your dash mixups. And know your options against his bats and the typical b11 and b2 mixups.

None of this will help you online because lag makes reacting to all this shit impossible. If you play online use aquaman. :D

Dude.... Great points and thanks for your breakdown on the matchup.

This covers almost everything I was wondering. It's so hard to find a solid batman online (we don't have one at GGA) that I realized I hadn't explored the matchup anywhere near what I needed to.
 

JokeStroke

Mortal
I realized after this post and tested to confirm. After b112 on block, batman can send bats and depending on the timing his jf2 is an ambigous crossup. Because the 112 stun moves you back bats stop the move back so batman can space the ambigous jf. That is pretty much unstoppable. So ughh just reiterates the point batman in is baaaaad.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
so i found a few things about a few characters

Harley
  • All tantrum stance followups can be interrupted with super
  • All tantrum 2 and 3 are both punishable. TS2 your best bet is to go with b1u2, f3, 323, f23, pizza cutter (32%?) TS3 has a lot of pushback so your best option is 323 f23 pizza cutter (26%?). those are the max damage combos, you can also go with a 23 ender instead of pizza cutter for mixup
  • Tantrum stance 1 is negative safe (i think -6). your best option after this is to throw out f23 and start your pressure.
  • When zoning her from mid screen, using iAGs could be useful when you want to read her trying to do air guns. you can use this if your reaction times are whack. if she does nothing im not 100% sure she can punish but its for minimal damage as far as i know (i will test this out more when i get the chance to)
Flash
  • In this newest version this matchup has gotten significantly harder. My training partner has a few setups i havent really found out how exactly to deal with but im going to post more information about that soon.
  • Flash can't really be zoned very effectively. he can punish guns from around 3/4 screen, however, EX guns cant be punished from around 2/3 screen. his dash now covers a shit ton of space and from what i can tell (unless my training partner just isnt doing it right), he can dash in between low guns into stand guns safely. MB assault rifle can be used to push him back out of a range where he can punish you but i would only recommend doing that when you have a large life lead. he doesnt have to really respect guns very much, so going for zoning is really situational. he can do an asston of speed dodges to make guns whiff and its kind of trying to have him stop doing it.
  • the optimal range to have flash out is f3 range. at this range his normals generally don't reach you. he also has very good wakeup options. you have to respect them. all of them are also punishable.
  • For some reason, the 2nd hit of EX psycho crusher is actually a high even though it says its a mid in training mode. you can block the whole thing crouching and 323 combo punish. you can also 323 combo punish regular psycho crusher.
Batman
  • Batman will inevitably get in. His dash is pretty godlike and he has his trait, however unlike flash's dash, it doesnt cover the entire fucking screen, so you can chip him on his way in. a lot of batman's like to sit back and block guns while they wait for their trait to buffer. there's no reason not to take you're chip while you can.
  • You should try to poke him on his way in and when he gets into the range where he would actually want to do something then and read what he would do and reset the positioning, rinse and repeat. the problem here is you have to be right many more times than he does and his options are better, so its still difficult, but a relatively simple approach.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Good stuff jonnitti. The strongest punish off of 323 is actually 323, 12 xx Machine Gun. If the Flash is waking up with/abusing Flying Uppercut, you can punish with a 132 combo. If he uses PC, you can reversal punish with Sword Flip.
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Good stuff jonnitti. The strongest punish off of 323 is actually 323, 12 xx Machine Gun. If the Flash is waking up with/abusing Flying Uppercut, you can punish with a 132 combo. If he uses PC, you can reversal punish with Sword Flip.

ive also gotten a 323 punish off of psycho crusher. -21 according to in game frame data and its the only normal string DS has that reaches. im going to look into flash setups the next i meet up with my training partner.
 

bl31

Noob
Any advices about ds vs nightwing match up? His staff zoning really good but his melee much better than ds melee. Or maybe just any tricks at this match?
 

JokeStroke

Mortal
The NW matchup is so bad for Dstroke I'm not even going to explain it on the boards in fear that one of them might read it and repost in their forums.

All I will say is that a 323 F23 SF = free safe trait activation v. escrima stance.

And you should always be attempting cross up jump in attempts into frame traps on his wakeup attacks v. staff.

The absolute best advice I can give you is learn to play wonderman or superman against a NW character specialist.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
ive also gotten a 323 punish off of psycho crusher. -21 according to in game frame data and its the only normal string DS has that reaches. im going to look into flash setups the next i meet up with my training partner.

Looks like you can actually B1U2 Flash after blocking a lightning charge. It's a bit tough, but doable.
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
Crathen. after blocking a KF slide, D1 into Ji3 gets blown up by a well timed D2. I don't think this is all that reliable honestly, any other options?
 

RM Jonnitti

Hot Dog
Crathen. after blocking a KF slide, D1 into Ji3 gets blown up by a well timed D2. I don't think this is all that reliable honestly, any other options?

you can try doing d1 to check him and then throw. worst case scenario he breaks the throw or jumps out? i dont have a console to test this with cuz im at class but thats what came to mind
 

Crathen

Death is my business
D1 into j3?just j3 if the kf player is Aa you you switch up to d1 ss or throw for safety and then when she stays blocking you can go into your b1/b2 50 50 or f3 if you feel gutsy

Inviato dal mio Nexus 4
 

Mikman360

Not the Milkman.
I just did some testing. Since D1 is 7 frames on startup just like F23, you can actually just go directly into F23 after blocking a slide.

F23 leads into a free mixup between B1 and B2. This could be good.