Match-up Discussion MK9 2013 Tier List

[Pig Of The Hut]

ok, so GGA 16 Bit , here's my response to the epic blow up from the podcast.

First, I agree that I stopped playing the game before it reached it's peak but I wouldn't say I quit it; circumstances arose and I decided against continuing to play it even though I wanted to. In the interim, my interest in playing MK9 competitively died out.

I would also agree that if you look at my Smoke through the lens of the total game lifespan it was under developed. But that's not really fair because in march 2012 EVERYONE was underdeveloped except the Dominican Bros and REO and detroitballin. At the time my Smoke was just as good, if not better, than any and every other Smoke. (yea I got bodied in the GGA room in the mirror and I don't have anything to say really. I choked and I have to hold dat L. I also only beat m2dave 3-2 because I had never played a Freddy before; I was learning the match up on the fly)

Across the lifespan of the game to this point it's obvious that Wafflez is the best Smoke and I have NEVER said otherwise so please don't go around putting words in my mouth. I've never said I was even a top player once ever.

I'll repeat that I agree 100% with xSMoKEx 's placement of Smoke in A tier. But to put him into the same tier as Sonya or Kenshi or Cyrax is just fucking ridiculous.

I think you've got it in your head that I somehow blame failures on bad match ups which is not the case AT ALL. I have never once bitched about a loss that was to a character I thought wasn't a bad match up. And, it sure as fuck didn't make me change the MU numbers in my head. Did I go around telling everyone that Smoke loses to Kenshi or Kitana when you and pig beat me at the Arena? Or that he loses to Cyrax whenever Maxter beat me? Fuck no ( AK Pig Of The Hut ). I always claimed those MUs are relatively even and I even thought that Smoke could beat Cyrax, if only slightly.

I'm also not a serial downplayer as evidenced by my ramblings on how Green Lantern is probably the best character in Injustice.

Who the fuck knows. Maybe if I had kept on and put in the hours I would have found ways to fight back in his bad match ups and I would have a different opinion. Regardless, no one who plays Smoke seriously at this point is gonna tell me that Smoke doesn't lose bad to all the popular tournament characters. Wafflez ?

If Wafflez comes in here and says "yea I've got new tech/strats since you left and the problem MU's aren't as bad now" then I will never post about match up matters in MK9 ever again.

But if not, as far as I'm concerned, If people are gonna play cage/sonya/lao/kabal and then sit there and say "BRO SMOKE IS ONE OF THE BEST CHARACTERS/SMOKE IS BULLSHIT BECAUSE OF DAMAGE EXPLOITZ" they can go fuck themselves.

If anyone has a problem w my trait then they gotta go through me first

My trait (KT smith) gets me out of a lot if bullshit situations so I hit his back

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

Pig downplaying Kenshi by saying he's #2 kappa. But srsly, did anyone ever downplay this character?

Nope, coz he was good from the get go.

In sep 2011 he was listed as mid tier w bad MUs and every kenshi was getting their backs blown out by Tom Brady's sub zero and every kitana in the world

Oct I out the blindfold on

End story

 

[RM Truth]

In sep 2011 he was listed as mid tier w bad MUs and every kenshi was getting their backs blown out by Tom Brady's sub zero and every kitana in the world

Oct I out the blindfold on

End story

And the rest as they say, is silence....or blindness....you get the idea.

 

[Qwark28]

Scorpion has a lot of lop-sided MU's...more than you may think. Sonya, Cage, Sektor, Kabal, Raiden are all at least 3-7. Scorpion loses when he can't throw out hellfire or spear 'comfortably' or when he gets rushed down.

Sub Zero loses to heavy zoning primarily. I think he has tools to deal with other stuff.

scorpion does not lose 7-3 to sektor or raiden and the definition of comfortable is not doing hellfire and random spears.

 

[RM Truth]

scorpion does not lose 7-3 to sektor or raiden and the definition of comfortable is not doing hellfire and random spears.

If anything Sektor takes almost as many risks as Scorpion.

 

[yaoding09]

Online players and the Smoke community are the biggest fools and scums on the planet.

I wonder whether the same faith awaits Kano 2.0 in Injustice.

Kano 2.0 is Deathstoke, I see what you mean now. As for the OP why is noob so low?

 

[RM Truth]

Kano 2.0 is Deathstoke, I see what you mean now. As for the OP why is noob so low?

Lack of good mixups, and subpar damage until he gets to the corner. He also has no armored moves to get out of pressure. Also imo, portal setups are really easy to get out of.

 

[xKhaoTik]

You make some good points. Sub Zero loses 3-7 or worse to Kabal, Kenshi and Freddy. Kitana I don't think is as bad but it is probably a 4-6. Sub Zero definitely has it tough but I think he's overall a better character tool wise. Scorpion is very hit and miss as you pointed out with the vortex. Sub Zero's damage isn't great as you also correctly stated.

I think Sub Zero has consistency going for him in his tools. One of the best d+4's, one of the best corner games and maybe the best special in the game with his ice clone. Not to mention his x-ray has some use. It's tough but I'd give a slight edge to Sub Zero. Scorpion's game is far too risky for my liking.

On second thought I'm not sure who's better. Maybe I'm biased as a Sub Zero player .

Kitana annihilates sub and scorpion 7-3

 

[NKZero]

scorpion does not lose 7-3 to sektor or raiden and the definition of comfortable is not doing hellfire and random spears.

What on earth can Scorpion do against Sektor or Raiden? I said 'comfortable' not comfortable. Scorpion's game requires a ton of risk but if he tries to check them with these tools he's dead. Sektor out footsies him as well. Raiden maybe 4-6 I'm not gonna pretend I know that MU inside out. What can Scorpion do to provide any semblance of a threat?

 

[Pearl Monnkey]

Tier list is incorrect; top 5 are as follows:

1. Kabal
2. Kung Lao
3. Sonya Blade
4. Kenshi
5. Cyrax

 

[NKZero]

Kitana annihilates sub and scorpion 7-3

Well that isn't exactly an annihilation is it? Sub Zero with a life lead can make life pretty tough for Kitana. The only thing that swings it in Kitana's favour is that she has better damage and slightly easier methods of obtaining a life lead. The fact that she can escape the corner easier than other characters plays a minor role if that in the MU. It's all about a life lead and both can keep each other out.

At least Sub Zero has a d+4 to contend with Kitana's d+1.

 

[Qwark28]

What on earth can Scorpion do against Sektor or Raiden? I said 'comfortable' not comfortable. Scorpion's game requires a ton of risk but if he tries to check them with these tools he's dead. Sektor out footsies him as well. Raiden maybe 4-6 I'm not gonna pretend I know that MU inside out. What can Scorpion do to provide any semblance of a threat?

what can sektor or raiden do to lame him out? its not like raiden can teleport through his 111 or vortex, scorpion touches you once and gets up to 40% in a vortex that guarantees at least 8% chip.

i play vs both sektor and raiden offline, theyre not in any case that bad for scorpion

 

[Qwark28]

Well that isn't exactly an annihilation is it? Sub Zero with a life lead can make life pretty tough for Kitana. The only thing that swings it in Kitana's favour is that she has better damage and slightly easier methods of obtaining a life lead. The fact that she can escape the corner easier than other characters plays a minor role if that in the MU. It's all about a life lead and both can keep each other out.

At least Sub Zero has a d+4 to contend with Kitana's d+1.

how the hell will you keep kitana out when one instant air fan catches a clone when airborne and leads to a full combo?

you cannot touch her without her fucking up, you cannot lay down clones unless on a read and you have no footsies or damage against her

 

[16 Bit]

In the entire life of the game a top Sub-Zero never beat a top Kitana. Ever.

 

[RM Truth]

what can sektor or raiden do to lame him out? its not like raiden can teleport through his 111 or vortex, scorpion touches you once and gets up to 40% in a vortex that guarantees at least 8% chip.

i play vs both sektor and raiden offline, theyre not in any case that bad for scorpion

The main problem is that Scorpion has to take risks to touch you. A badly placed D4 or F4 spear means you eat a lot of dmg into a setup.

 

[xKhaoTik]

Well that isn't exactly an annihilation is it? Sub Zero with a life lead can make life pretty tough for Kitana. The only thing that swings it in Kitana's favour is that she has better damage and slightly easier methods of obtaining a life lead. The fact that she can escape the corner easier than other characters plays a minor role if that in the MU. It's all about a life lead and both can keep each other out.

At least Sub Zero has a d+4 to contend with Kitana's d+1.

That's nice or whatever but the match is still horrible. Who cares if he gets the life lead? What is he going to do that's gonna keep her out beside hide behind the clone? All he's doing after getting a lead is sitting on it by using clones, which is pushing him in the corner, where kitana scores even more monstrous damage.

This is literally a match kitana doesn't have to do anything in but zone accordingly. Once she gets the lead, its a wrap and if he gets the lead, its only a matter of time before she gets it right back.

 

[NKZero]

what can sektor or raiden do to lame him out? its not like raiden can teleport through his 111 or vortex, scorpion touches you once and gets up to 40% in a vortex that guarantees at least 8% chip.

i play vs both sektor and raiden offline, theyre not in any case that bad for scorpion

All Sektor has to do is abuse f+2 and b+1. Scorpion cannot throw anything out without fearing the consequences so at certain ranges, Sektor can just start zoning. Scorpion in the corner is royally fucked. Scorpion has crappy pokes so Sektor can almost rush him down. I cannot remember Scorpion's hit-box but I seem to remember it being large (may be wrong). Scorpion with meter might be a little easier for him to manage but otherwise it's tricky.

 

[Qwark28]

The main problem is that Scorpion has to take risks to touch you. A badly placed D4 or F4 spear means you eat a lot of dmg into a setup.

scorpion does not have to take risks and even when he does he could have a breaker.

the matchups scorpion struggles in are those where he has to deal with pressure and massively better footsie tools. raiden has gaps in his strings and teleport is full combo punishable, both of sektors teleports are - and ex spear/teleport can be used on reaction to a missile

he has excelent damage into a vortex.

 

[Pig Of The Hut]

In the entire life of the game a top Sub-Zero never beat a top Kitana. Ever.

I told Tom April 2011

"This is a bad MU"

 

[Qwark28]

All Sektor has to do is abuse f+2 and b+1. Scorpion cannot throw anything out without fearing the consequences so at certain ranges, Sektor can just start zoning. Scorpion in the corner is royally fucked. Scorpion has crappy pokes so Sektor can almost rush him down. I cannot remember Scorpion's hit-box but I seem to remember it being large (may be wrong). Scorpion with meter might be a little easier for him to manage but otherwise it's tricky.

ive played this MU extensively

how the hell does sektor rush with no good hit confirmable strings? are you gonna throw out b23, f2 in his face? you cant hit confirm those and its easy to block b34

sektors zoning is not going to kill scorpion anytime soon without a mid straight missile which is very reactable and very punishable. this is not a 7-3, maybe even or 6-4 sektor.

 

[NKZero]

That's nice or whatever but the match is still horrible. Who cares if he gets the life lead? What is he going to do that's gonna keep her out beside hide behind the clone? All he's doing after getting a lead is sitting on it by using clones, which is pushing him in the corner, where kitana scores even more monstrous damage.

This is literally a match kitana doesn't have to do anything in but zone accordingly. Once she gets the lead, its a wrap and if he gets the lead, its only a matter of time before she gets it right back.

Yes but Kitana's corner game is only concerning because she has better damage. Nothing else stands out. She isn't opening him up. As I said I agree that Kitana having a life lead is much harder and Sub Zero might have to take risks to get in but it isn't THAT hard to get in. I think it's a tough 4-6 but he has tougher matches.

 

[G4S Killin Natzees]

In sep 2011 he was listed as mid tier w bad MUs and every kenshi was getting their backs blown out by Tom Brady's sub zero and every kitana in the world

Oct I out the blindfold on

End story

Did you put the blindfold on before or after REO demonstrated the power of kenshi on CD Jr at CEO? I seriously can't remember, it's been way too long lol

 

[NKZero]

ive played this MU extensively

how the hell does sektor rush with no good hit confirmable strings? are you gonna throw out b23, f2 in his face? you cant hit confirm those and its easy to block b34

sektors zoning is not going to kill scorpion anytime soon without a mid straight missile which is very reactable and very punishable. this is not a 7-3, maybe even or 6-4 sektor.

Even if he scores knockdowns Scorpion isn't getting up unless he does EX take down. Even if b+2, 1 hits and knocks down it doesn't matter. You can hit confirm b+3, 4 and I don't believe Sektor has to worry about it whiffing. Space out f+2 so he cannot counter-poke with that sub-par d+4 of his and stay on his ass. Sektor can advance and harass until Scorpion is cornered and then it's over.

 

[Qwark28]

Even if he scores knockdowns Scorpion isn't getting up unless he does EX take down. Even if b+2, 1 hits and knocks down it doesn't matter. You can hit confirm b+3, 4 and I don't believe Sektor has to worry about it whiffing. Space out f+2 so he cannot counter-poke with that sub-par d+4 of his and stay on his ass. Sektor can advance and harass until Scorpion is cornered and then it's over.

dude, who cares if he cant counterpoke, scorpion does not poke for advantage, sektor does have to worry about shit whiffing and normal takedown is a good wakeup vs sektor

man you have not played this matchup vs a good scorpion.

 

[Immortal]

I told Tom April 2011

"This is a bad MU"

Let me guess - he didn't believe you?