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MK11 SHANG TSUNG Discussion

K

kcd117

Kombatant
AK Harold said:
How are v3 tools in the neutral overall?
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Lift is decent anti air and neutral check, shake is good but his neutral is pretty harmless in this variation...

It’s like okay we have Shake to counter projectiles but the startup is a bit slow to use it in the mid range on a reaction. People can’t lame him out but they don’t really need to... he has no fullscreen presence outside of his fireball that will get ducked 100% of the time by decent people.

The gameplan changes from forcing 5-7 mistakes in neutral to running after people to open them up 5-7 times with no mixups aside from an okay auto-shimmy string.

So far it seems really pointless and almost as bad as spellmaster...
 
Mahjunia

Mahjunia

Noob
Deezxnutz said:
ya can jail into 114 or you can just frame trap with B3U4 or B3D4 since B3 is 10f
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Thanks m8, I've been testing the next things after d1:
· d1, 114-db4 cancel, b3u4 / b3d4
· d1, 21-db4 cancel, 3u2 / b3u4 / b3d4 / 112-db1
· d1, 3u2-db4 cancel, b3u4 (b3 doesn't reach) / b1d2

this is all theorycraft where in a real game might work since online + cancels get people crazy.
 
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legion666

legion666

Champion
Soul Eater’s gameplan is different. You can always do 2 bar combos for 362-390 and then run away and wait for meter to come back. The only problem will be the kharacters that have something fullscreen that you can’t Shake, like warlock’s Corpse drop.
 
AK Harold

AK Harold

Warrior
@kcd117 the shake seems fast for a guarantee punish. Data show 11f? In training I could react to Johnny fire ball from within full screen. (I know live is different)

Seems like game plan is to just annoy them in neutral with shake. When you get up close and hit just cash out two meters and reset neutral again to build meter. Not sure it is effective yet, but having a strong advantage against projectile reliant neutral and decent damage options maybe a good build.

All this while not having to play as "smart" as warlock zoning. It's fun to me at least, but I feel like I'm missing something with my game plan overall.
 
K

kcd117

Kombatant
AK Harold said:
@kcd117 the shake seems fast for a guarantee punish. Data show 11f? In training I could react to Johnny fire ball from within full screen. (I know live is different)

Seems like game plan is to just annoy them in neutral with shake. When you get up close and hit just cash out two meters and reset neutral again to build meter. Not sure it is effective yet, but having a strong advantage against projectile reliant neutral and decent damage options maybe a good build.

All this while not having to play as "smart" as warlock zoning. It's fun to me at least, but I feel like I'm missing something with my game plan overall.
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It feels pretty slow idk why. I’m 100% consistent with NW’s reflect anywhere in the screen against all projectiles but I just seem to get hit out of the startup a lot with shake by JC’s, Liu’s and Sonya’s projectile in the mid range game. Fullscreen is fine tho.

If we had corpse drop in this variation I believe it would be pretty decent, but the fact that he has to get in on people to do any kind of dmg is extremely counter productive to his archetype and lacks synergy with his base set of normals. I can’t see why NRS decided to remove all of his base specials, it is not like he would be nearly as strong as infinite warden or 52 pickup in the “fuck neutral” department with his Shake if he kept them.
 
ABACABB

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
MK Paul Rudd said:
So I think I found a new brutality for Shang Tsung today while I was playing against the AI. out of nowhere he hit me with this brutality that I’ve never seen before. Safe to say I was laughing for quite a bit.

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lmao

nice one , it must be new just added brutal with last patch cuz Ive never seen it too
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I think Souleater has a lot of great knockdowns, partly because he has the launcher potential to get those knockdowns and more motivation to keep the opponent closer.

Normal DB4 is plus 30, enough to guarantee any normal(including F3/F4) and leaving Shang in a good position for a crossup jump kick which should punish most wakeups and leaves him plus. You can get this knockdown by sacrificing a bit of damage on one bar combos, hit confirming into it as a meterless ender or just mixing it up.

And friendly reminder that F24~Roundhouse Kick is basically safe! I'm not sure if anyone can punish it besides Raijen.
 
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Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
I encountered an interesting Soul Jar glitch. I did a Soul Jar, and then got knocked into the corner away from where I summoned it. A minute later in the next round, without ever going back to the part of the screen where the jar was, I had an input error which caused a Soul Jar heal with no bonus healing. This should have been a Soul Jar summon.

The Soul Jar is summoned at 0:12 and the glitch happens at 1:23.

 
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RoninLoganX

RoninLoganX

The Masterless Sword
Not sure if this has been answered already, but do the Augments for the separate ninja moves apply to the combination 3 slot move?
 
Zviko

Zviko

Warrior
Finally a patch for PC and I finally have some time to play this weekend. Is V3 viable on ranked? I've been labbing him for like 20 minutes only and his damage sucks. Looks like a lot of fun though which is the most important thing but still. Also, does anyone even fall for Rain setups/cancels?
 
Marinjuana

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
So I didn't realize it was that significant but @kcd117 pointed it out and then @REO made this video and this flawless block change actually comes out as a buff for Shang's offense. People who want to flawless block F242 will now have to risk getting hit by the various specials that hit earlier such as Ground Inferno, Crashing Flames and possibly Rain's Roundhouse. I believe Ermac's lift already punished that there but I never tested it. F242 plus frames aren't that oppressive but it's nice that we have to risk less to use them now.


Zviko said:
Finally a patch for PC and I finally have some time to play this weekend. Is V3 viable on ranked? I've been labbing him for like 20 minutes only and his damage sucks. Looks like a lot of fun though which is the most important thing but still. Also, does anyone even fall for Rain setups/cancels?
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While his damage is easy to come by on hit confirms, his one bar damage is average. However, his two bar damage is very high and he can cash out with Reptile's Slide KB.

Shang's Spellmaster BF1 cancel and Rain cancel can be used in pressure, and Rain's should be more legit because of the mid follow up. F24~cancel is good because it leaves you close enough for a step-throw(as opposed to normal F24) and people respect F242 or F24~special. F24~Roundhouse is pretty safe too.
 
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Dayvon

Dayvon

Mortal
What are Warlock’s pros n cons? I want to pick up Shang as a secondary to deal with characters that use air projectiles
 
M2Dave

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Dayvon said:
What are Warlock’s pros n cons? I want to pick up Shang as a secondary to deal with characters that use air projectiles
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Pros:

  • great zoning with skulls, ground eruption, and corpse drop
  • ground eruption is much more than a zoning tool and can be used as an anti-aerial and punishing tool
  • if you are concerned about aerial projectiles, corpse drop, which ignores reflectors and projectile immunity special moves, has an excellent vertical hitbox and does 9% of damage
  • one of the best auto-shimmy strings in 1,1,4 (safe launcher that can be hit-confirmed) and 1,1,2 (plus string with a gap)
  • speaking of plus moves and strings, he has three (1,1,2, f+2,4,2, and f+4), which are more difficult to flawless block because of changes that were implemented in the most recent patch, as @Marinjuana explained above your post
  • jump kick with a large low hitbox that almost always guarantees ground eruption on hit and a b+3 / throw mix up on block
Cons:

  • poor damage output and as a result comeback potential
  • fatal blow is slow, has limited range, and is difficult to connect and combo into, which again affects comeback potential
  • fastest non-high string (b+3,u+4) has a long gap and cannot be hit-confirmed (unless you have the execution to option select consistently?)
I think Warlock is definitely good and tournament viable but arguably loses to some popular top tier characters, namely Cetrion, Geras, and Liu Kang, which is a major problem if you are competing.

The ninja variation is not great, but it is admitedly better than I originally thought. Probably mid or high mid tier at best. You can use the shake to counter and punish all traditional projectiles, including aerial ones.
 
legion666

legion666

Champion
Marinjuana said:
So I didn't realize it was that significant but @kcd117 pointed it out and then @REO made this video and this flawless block change actually comes out as a buff for Shang's offense. People who want to flawless block F242 will now have to risk getting hit by the various specials that hit earlier such as Ground Inferno, Crashing Flames and possibly Rain's Roundhouse. I believe Ermac's lift already punished that there but I never tested it. F242 plus frames aren't that oppressive but it's nice that we have to risk less to use them now.




While his damage is easy to come by on hit confirms, his one bar damage is average. However, his two bar damage is very high and he can cash out with Reptile's Slide KB.

Shang's Spellmaster BF1 cancel and Rain cancel can be used in pressure, and Rain's should be more legit because of the mid follow up. F24~cancel is good because it leaves you close enough for a step-throw(as opposed to normal F24) and people respect F242 or F24~special. F24~Roundhouse is pretty safe too.
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Haven’t I posted this enough in here
legion666 said:
Here is the Ermac KB application I was talking about
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1177351663423827969

Again, in theory you should be able to fuzzy this, by holding the block longer after f24,and then still Flawless blocking. But that’s should be quite difficult.
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Because of the changes to Flawless block fuzzying this is now impossible.
 
Dayvon

Dayvon

Mortal
@M2Dave thanks a lot for the info. I used to listen to you and Skip’s pod cast when I first go into the Fgc. Never change lol.
I’m going to give Warlock a try. I played Shinnok in MKX so l hope there are a few similarities.
 
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