What's new

MK11 Kano Discussion

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Yo @Circus , I saw you were asking for a pic showing pushback of air amped kanoball on block in another thread. Check out the most recent belt battle on KK where Derek plays Kano. I assume this is the most recent build, since they were showing off tournament mode. There are like 10 blocked amp airballs in that match not one gets punished (of course this is Tyler we're talking about).


View attachment 13984


View attachment 13985
That doesn't look punishable at all. Pretty huge for him for it to be safe and left at that perfect spacing wow.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
Is instant-air Air Ball an overhead? And what is the input?

[edit] Nope, it's a Mid, and it's bf3.
 
Last edited:

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Something to note about the Amp Air Ball is that some characters DO have moves that aren't their jabs that reach this far and are from 7-9 frame startup.

Baraka F2 reaches and it's startup is 8 frames if I remember correctly.
Cassie's F4 is 9 frames and reaches this far.

This won't be the end-all move, but there will definitely be a good chunk of characters that just have to flat out deal with it.

Edit:
All other character discussion forums are so busy complaining about stuff and aren't looking at the character's strengths instead.
Just got to say that I'm glad barely anyone even opens up this Kano discussion because we get to dodge all that toxicity.
That and they won't know what'll hit them when they fight us lol.
 
Last edited:

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
So for people asking if we can combo off of air ball on an airborne opponent. The hit advantage is +9 on hit and bounces the airborne opponent so it seems promising.

I’m also holding out hope me can O/S our f2 low attack considering the cancel advantage on hit is so massive. If it can be cancelled quickly on block and a long delay for the bounce animation on hit—then we will be unstoppable. I know there’s something there with f2 I just haven’t figure it out yet

@Murderation76 @Circus @karaokelove @SaltShaker
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
So for people asking if we can combo off of air ball on an airborne opponent. The hit advantage is +9 on hit and bounces the airborne opponent so it seems promising.

I’m also holding out hope me can O/S our f2 low attack considering the cancel advantage on hit is so massive. If it can be cancelled quickly on block and a long delay for the bounce animation on hit—then we will be unstoppable. I know there’s something there with f2 I just haven’t figure it out yet

@Murderation76 @Circus @karaokelove @SaltShaker
I just watched that video again, and it really does look like a follow up connects. I'm hearing a lot "JIK, Quick Dash, Combo" being a universal option superior to Jip, so being able to combo here makes a lot of sense. Depending on where you connect it along with the combo of choice, the corner carry from the initial jump might be massive.

That would be dirty! I was thinking too, the universal options favor Kano's gameplay a bit more than most characters. Feels like with this gameplan+moveset he'll be able to take advantage of things like FLB a bit more than most characters (while having solid staggers himself), and is one of the few who can freely use his D-Bar without effecting his specials.

Edit:
All other character discussion forums are so busy complaining about stuff and aren't looking at the character's strengths instead.
Just got to say that I'm glad barely anyone even opens up this Kano discussion because we get to dodge all that toxicity.
That and they won't know what'll hit them when they fight us lol.
Easily one of the best and most constructive character forums. This is how they should be. I can pop in to some other character forums for a laugh at times, but this one is the benchmark. It's a crime one of our players hasn't gotten an early copy yet (I'm working on it though). So much to test/lab.
 

Murderation76

knife boi
Now that we're getting vids of all the other characters' frame data, one thing I'm noticing is that forward throw krushing blows (teching incorrect direction x 2) are NOT universal as I had thought. So Kano has KBs on forward AND backward throws---and both of these are unique to him. I think this speaks to NRS's intentions for Kano to mix in throw with staggers/pokes A LOT.

You will only get one incorrect tech against Kano. His pressure/throw game will be very scary. I think at high level, a lot of players will completely avoid teching throws against Kano. Not worth the risk of eating a 30% chunk of damage. This is not to say we won't catch people accidentally teching by mashing jab or whatever.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Thanks to @ShepherdOfFire we have a bunch of awesome info:

1)
In Ripper (Evil Glee)
B2, 241+3, F2DU4 combos in the corner and keeps the opponent in the corner

2)
D1xxChemical Burn on block works if you aren't at max D1 distance. It'll retreat Kano to about jump distance.

3)
Here's the big one:
If someone is in the fire of Molotov Cocktail and you Chemical Burn them, they will take around 150damage from an explosion.

This is ok, but what is REALLY crazy is that the Chemical Burn doesn't even need to hit.
If the opponent blocks the Chemical Burn they will explode too. The Chemical Burn becomes an Unblockable if they are in the fire!

The explosion doesn't knockdown but gives good +frames on hit.
If you Amplify the Chemical Burn after the Unblockable, the lighter could be blocked (not good).


Later tonight @ShepherdOfFire will test if the Unblockable explosion restands a juggled opponent and he'll check what moves tick grab into Lumbar Check!


EDIT:

It doesn't happen on block. Late debunk ._.
 
Last edited:

NOMAS

Noob
So Dirtbag has unblockable setups? Oh boy, people are going to have fun getting out of his BS lol. What are Kano's anti-air options against for anyone trying to jump out?
 

Murderation76

knife boi
Thanks to @ShepherdOfFire we have a bunch of awesome info:

1)
In Ripper (Evil Glee)
B2, 241+3, F2DU4 combos in the corner and keeps the opponent in the corner

2)
D1xxChemical Burn on block works if you aren't at max D1 distance. It'll retreat Kano to about jump distance.

3)
Here's the big one:
If someone is in the fire of Molotov Cocktail and you Chemical Burn them, they will take around 150damage from an explosion.

This is ok, but what is REALLY crazy is that the Chemical Burn doesn't even need to hit.
If the opponent blocks the Chemical Burn they will explode too. The Chemical Burn becomes an Unblockable if they are in the fire!

The explosion doesn't knockdown but gives good +frames on hit.
If you Amplify the Chemical Burn after the Unblockable, the lighter could be blocked (not good).


Later tonight @ShepherdOfFire will test if the Unblockable explosion restands a juggled opponent and he'll check what moves tick grab into Lumbar Check!
Oh man... this is mad interesting. I have a fifty more questions I wanna ask. I need this damn game, I wanna lab this shit SO BAD.

  • Is chemical burn easily punishable on block?
  • Has any way to safely setup a molotov been found?
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
So Dirtbag has unblockable setups? Oh boy, people are going to have fun getting out of his BS lol. What are Kano's anti-air options against for anyone trying to jump out?
I imagine jumping backwards will be effective. It will avoid wakeups and if they jump or do pretty much anything, you can use Air Ball or Amplified Air Ball to punish and potentially combo. Or you can land and go into something else.
 

ShepherdOfFire

Ask me about my Nemesis agenda
I'll test the tick throws tonight (european night so in a few hours).

Kano will be a very strong character, even without Snake Bite. Both variations seems good for me. I know it's soon, but wow I am so surprised of what Kano can do. And it's just some day one shit lol

  • Is chemical burn easily punishable on block?
  • Has any way to safely setup a molotov been found?
I'll test it later

---

I spent so much time to test things for @Circus I have more playtime with Kano and Cassie than my mains Johnny and Sonya :D
But it doesn't bother me at all, I wanted to have a pocket Kano (or maybe even as a third main, he's so fun to play)
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
So Dirtbag has unblockable setups? Oh boy, people are going to have fun getting out of his BS lol. What are Kano's anti-air options against for anyone trying to jump out?
Jump out of the fire? I don't think sooooo ...... ;););)



Kano's regular Black Dragon Ball could anti air jumps from anywhere on the screen.
A jump out would just make them take damage anyway. Amplified Dragon Ball will be coming there way.

If there is even one good Molotov setup, this is going to be some DIIIRTTTTYYYYY stuff lol. It's no wonder why Molotov has such bad startup now.

Kano with the scumbag tactics. I LOVE it.
==================================================================

Also, something to note after looking through everyone's frame data:

Kano has the fastest recovering high projectile in the entire game at -7 now lol.

Sure, the startup is 20 frames, but good luck jumping in on him if it isn't a read on initial throw, because he'll most likely have time to anti-air. This character's neutral is turning out to be SICK. He isn't going to be a zoner, but the CONTROL he'll have on the field is going to be very scary.

Ughhh I can't wait.
 

Murderation76

knife boi
Kano has the fastest recovering projectile in the entire game at -7 now lol.

Sure, the startup is 20 frames, but good luck jumping in on him if it isn't a read on initial throw, because he'll most likely have time to anti-air. This character's neutral is turning out to be SICK. He isn't going to be a zoner, but the CONTROL he'll have on the field is going to be very scary.
Exactly, I've been very excited about the utility of blade toss since I first saw the frame data.

  • It will be amazing for conditioning people to neutral duck or jump, opening them up for 10f kanoballs, B3s and B2 anti-airs. Once this locks them down, get in with F1 at +1.
  • It's our primary safe string-ender.
  • Awesome standing reset tool. I've noticed most characters with fast projectiles like Liu, Sonya, Kitana and Johnny only get a couple frames on hit. Blade toss leaves opponent point-blank and +15 on hit to setup our pressure/tick grab.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Lumbar Check Tickthrows :
d1
d3
d4
11
24

24.... tick throws lol.
This means you could mixup between 241+3 that is +1 on block and launches for full combo on hit or go for 24xxLumberCheck.
The issue here is that the opponent has time to poke out between the 24 and the 241+3.

So your options will be:

24xxLumbarCheck
24xxRackOffParry
241+3

Trying to stagger just 24 wouldn't be a good idea because 24 is -13 on block. Still though, this is pretty spicy and ABSOLUTELY abusable if the opponent doesn't know there is a poke-able gap in between lol.
 

Murderation76

knife boi
Beautiful.

I was hoping for 22 to tick, but this might be even better. The low comes out very fast (11f). From the first frame of the standing 2 to the hitspark of the 4 is a total of 27f---just a couple frames slower than F4. Check out the range of 24 here:

14086

This comes out quick enough it may be useful to throw it out at a distance that the 2 whiffs and 4 connects. It is reactable, but people will likely react by blocking low and eating the tick.

241+3 / 24xxLumbarCheck will also be a nasty mixup option after blade toss or F12 connects.

I think our D1 and D3 are intentionally +8 oH as to not guarantee the 9f high standing 2, because the options are so scary. Like a pseudo 33/33/33.

11 is a great stagger and tick option. It's +17 oH-- so there is a possibility that if we go for a tick and the 11 hits and lumbar check whiffs, it may be safe or will be a really tight punish...