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MK11 Kano Discussion

Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
Yo guys, leaks are trickling out. Someone has posted all the preset variations for all characters. Of course there will be a huge day 1 patch, so I take all of it with a grain of salt. Both of Kano's variation are as shown on KombatKast. I did notice that Snakebite is now a two slot move. Not sure why they value it so high, especially when Bio-magnetic pull is still 1 slot.

EDIT: Manhandled description says it allows F4 to be canceled into snakebite, so that explains the two slot value. It will probably allow F4xxsnakebite amp->combo ender for nice damage.
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Good catch.

Also, while Bio-Magnetic Pull is really good too, Snake Bite could literally convert off EVERYTHING; a stray anti air from jab or standing 3, B2, 241amplified, and F2.

Bio-Magnetic Pull could only become a full combo if the opponent is standing. Then again though, it adds an amazing whiff punisher to his kit. I'd still like either/or tbh. Both sound incredible still.
 
Jhonnykiller45

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
I think Bio-Magnetic Pull is gonna end up being a restand attack kinda like Kabal's Extended Hook and not necessarily a combo starter/extender in the day 1 build. Would explain why it costs only 1 slot while Snake Bite costs 2 slots while seemingly having a similiar function.
 
kobrafan79

kobrafan79

R.I.P Kobra 2004-2015 we hardly knew ye.
Circus said:
Good catch.

Also, while Bio-Magnetic Pull is really good too, Snake Bite could literally convert off EVERYTHING; a stray anti air from jab or standing 3, B2, 241amplified, and F2.

Bio-Magnetic Pull could only become a full combo if the opponent is standing. Then again though, it adds an amazing whiff punisher to his kit. I'd still like either/or tbh. Both sound incredible still.
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Too bad neither are in his tournament varations
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
Thank you for sharing

@Circus
Do my eyes deceive me? Check out 2:36 in this video, the spit from F12 completely whiffs on a duck blocking opponent?
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Your eyes do not deceive you, sadly lol.

I mentioned this weeks ago. The first TWO hits of his F12 are high so it's super punishable. He's going to seriously have to play his footsie game extremely smart to get anything going.

It's a concern I've had with the F12 string since we first saw his frame data.
 
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Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
Circus said:
Your eyes do not deceive you, sadly lol.

I mentioned this weeks ago. The first TWO hits of his F12 are high so it's super punishable on a read. He's going to seriously have to play his footsie game extremely smart to get anything going.

It's a concern I've had with the F12 string since we first saw his frame data.
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But Jade is blocking---highs should still connect on a duck blocking opponent, no? You would have to neutral duck a high to make it whiff, right?
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
But Jade is blocking---highs should still connect on a duck blocking opponent, no? You would have to neutral duck a high to make it whiff, right?
Click to expand...

It's the same thing with Johnny as Johnny's F43 string.


For Johnny, the string is +7 on block AND has a Krushing Blow on counter hit, BUT it'll whiff right over the opponent's head if the opponent just crouch blocks.

This is why it's so important for us to know what F1 is on block, but it's literally one of the only pieces of frame data we are missing from the pre-release build. There has to be some incentive for the opponent to stand up in between the F1 and the F12. It's why I've been begging like a dog for anything to help get his frame data.

F12 is 0 on block, +24 on hit, and has some range to it, so I want to know see what we are missing from his kit.

My guess is that F1 spaces the opponent out right out of D1 range on block and is -2 or something.

There's a ton left to be discovered with our character man lol. I'm optimistic, but yeah, I hope we're going to be okay because I'm sure we're going to lab this dude like crazy.
 
Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
Circus said:
For Johnny, the string is +7 on block AND has a Krushing Blow on counter hit, BUT it'll whiff right over the opponent's head if the opponent just crouch blocks.

This is why it's so important for us to know what F1 is on block, but it's literally one of the only pieces of frame data we are missing from the pre-release build. There has to be some incentive for the opponent to stand up in between the F1 and the F12. It's why I've been begging like a dog for anything to help get his frame data.

F12 is 0 on block, +24 on hit, and has some range to it, so I want to know see what we are missing from his kit.

My guess is that F1 spaces the opponent out right out of D1 range on block and is -2 or something.

There's a ton left to be discovered with our character man lol. I'm optimistic, but yeah, I hope we're going to be okay because I'm sure we're going to lab this dude like crazy.
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Damn.

I booted up MKX to test a bunch of highs and I did find a sparse few among characters that just straight whiffed even on duck-blockers. I somehow didn't realize this was a thing lol. I also couldn't find a single string that started out with two highs in a row. Wonder why this is a thing now.

Now I don't think staggering F12/F12B1 will be a thing. Opponents will be blocking low against Kano as default-- his overheads can all be easily seen. The spit will just be flying over everyone's head for a free D2 blowup. It's not even a read at that point if you don't have to neutral duck.

I hope to god F1 has to be neutral ducked for it to whiff, otherwise the string will be high-risk af.

Btw I think F1 by itself will definitely leave us within D1 range. Check the same video at about 1:34. He does F12xxsnakebite on block and you can see the F1 leaves Kano almost point blank.
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
Damn.

I booted up MKX to test a bunch of highs and I did find a sparse few among characters that just straight whiffed even on duck-blockers. I somehow didn't realize this was a thing lol. I also couldn't find a single string that started out with two highs in a row. Wonder why this is a thing now.

Now I don't think staggering F12/F12B1 will be a thing. Opponents will be blocking low against Kano as default-- his overheads can all be easily seen. The spit will just be flying over everyone's head for a free D2 blowup. It's not even a read at that point if you don't have to neutral duck.

I hope to god F1 has to be neutral ducked for it to whiff, otherwise the string will be high-risk af.

Btw I think F1 by itself will definitely leave us within D1 range. Check the same video at about 1:34. He does F12xxsnakebite on block and you can see the F1 leaves Kano almost point blank.
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Its time like these where I wish there was a sad face reaction option for posts. :oops:

I know you're thinking it too, but it seems the more info we get on Kano, the more weak he seems.
I hate making knee-jerk assumptions, so it just makes me want to lab things 100% so badly right now...

I also hate comparing Kano's tools to everyone else's and being disappointed (feels like MK9 all over again).
This week is going to be so long.........
 
Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
Circus said:
I also hate comparing Kano's tools to everyone else's and being disappointed (feels like MK9 all over again).
This week is going to be so long.........
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Bro, I hear that.

I've been getting salty as a bitch every kombatkast I see another character with a fast mid-started string.

I had a blast playing Kabal for the beta with dude's B1 and F2 staggers, 9f mid (F4), meterless combo-extension, 50/50 into +6 restand, ridiculous air projectile. And over here we dealin with 2nd hit of a string flyin over duck-blockers and fucking 80f molotov on our competitive loadout.

Either way, Kano has and will be my boy. I'm ride or die for this motherfucker.

Worst case scenario: We have to make it work in the early life of the game with a somewhat lesser toolset, but slowly get buffed into a solid spot. IMO that is so much better than starting out top-tier and having to choke down the saltiness of continuous nerfs.

NRS has come a long way since MK9. I trust they'll get balance in a good spot. After season 1 of the protour, I've got a good feeling we'll get our custom variations. Kano mains won't have shit to worry about at that point.
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
Bro, I hear that.

I've been getting salty as a bitch every kombatkast I see another character with a fast mid-started string.

I had a blast playing Kabal for the beta with dude's B1 and F2 staggers, 9f mid (F4), meterless combo-extension, 50/50 into +6 restand, ridiculous air projectile. And over here we dealin with 2nd hit of a string flyin over duck-blockers and fucking 80f molotov on our competitive loadout.

Either way, Kano has and will be my boy. I'm ride or die for this motherfucker.

Worst case scenario: We have to make it work in the early life of the game with a somewhat lesser toolset, but slowly get buffed into a solid spot. IMO that is so much better than starting out top-tier and having to choke down the saltiness of continuous nerfs.

NRS has come a long way since MK9. I trust they'll get balance in a good spot. After season 1 of the protour, I've got a good feeling we'll get our custom variations. Kano mains won't have shit to worry about at that point.
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The thing that sucks the most is that I've been really keeping an eye on all the other characters too, and ALL the ones we have frame data on make 1000% sense to me.

I could tell how Raiden, Geras, Sonya, Scorpion, Baraka, Skarlet, Subzero, Kabal, Jade, Johnny, and Cassie will play just by looking at their frame data and the visual of their moves. I could see how each of them have strong strategies to be really strong.

Then it's my main man Kano. The character I've studied the most BY A LOT, and I'm still confused how he's going to be considered really strong.

Slow walk and dash speeds.
F3, F4, F12, B2, F2, Ball, and Chemical Burn are all punishable.
Low damage from many openers.
Low damage on pokes.

He just seems so punishable with very little pay off at the moment. In many instances, he literally can't do anything but B4 or low pokes because his only safe mid is 17frame startup, is -5 on block, and isn't even a string. This AND his low pokes aren't even that ranged. Kitana's D1 is the size of Kano's D4....


The only thing I keep telling myself is that NRS knows what they are doing. I see all the small intricate stuff they gave everyone else and it makes me optimistic that Kano MUST have something that we are overlooking. He must have some strategy that is effective enough to warrant all these limitations on him.

There's no way that they would launch Kano obviously underpowered when he's been getting so much attention.
There has to be a reason they chose the variations they decided on knowing that he is the way he is.

They've changed up Jade, Baraka, and Sonya from old builds. They might have changed Kano up a bit too?
Either way, yea. If Kano is even DECENT, we are going to make him a beast because I'm not giving up on him and I'm stubborn af.

This wait is killing me though....
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Kano Final RELASE BUILD Frame Data:

Kano Beta Frame Data (for comparison):

THE HYPE STARTS NOW BOYS!!!

Some highlights:

1) F1 is +1 on block!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is HUUUUUGE. We could immediately start pressure off of it now, and because the second high is a bit slower, you could use it if you believe your opponent will do a standing move to stop your standing pressure after the +1. This will encourage them to only interrupt post-F1 pressure with low pokes that don't do much damage or D2s.
Honestly, I'm IN LOVE with this.

2) 112 is +2 on block!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This picture shows the pushback on block on 112. This leaves Kano at such an amazing position for walk-back-whiff-punishes, continued pressure with F1, a jump in, and soooo much more, fuuuck! What makes this even better is that 11 is a tick grab with Lumbar Check AND 11 is only -1 on block and leaves you right in the opponent's face! The staggers are going to be so real.
There is a Flawless Blockable gap between 11 and 112, but still. This is now an amazing pressure tool.

3) B1 is now -6 on block!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is his retreating mid hitting move. In the beta it was -14. This is probably the biggest change from the beta to the final build. B1 is now an AMAZING escape tool and it could even be cancelled into a special move for damage too. I imagine B1xxAmplifiedBall will do about 18%. I LOVE this move now.
Here's the pushback on B1 on block:
Here's the startup animation of B1 (it might low profile highs!!!)

4) B2 is more + on hit
This means that there is a possibility of Molotov Cocktail setups working better now. This might also open up combos like B2, 4xxVege-MightyxxAmplifiedKanoBall which is just amazing.

5) F4 is now only -7 on block!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This means that vs many characters he'll have a SAFE OVERHEAD LOL!!! THIS IS HUUUUUUUGE LOL!!!!!! HOLY SHIT!!!! This move is going to be so fucking annoying for people to deal with. It's important to note that Flawless Blocking it makes it -12 on block though, but still WOW!!!

6) Amplified Air Ball is only -10 on block...!!!!
Depending on pushback, this move actually might be safe. Again, this is going to make Kano such a ridiculous threat. I could already see a ton of people complaining about this move lol. We still don't know how much pushback it'll have on block, but it's definitely something to look out for now.

7) 241 is +1 on block
While the frame data we have is only for Ripper, the demo frame data for 241 and the Manhandled version of 241 was the same. I imagine that 223 will be -6 on block and 241 will be +1 on block. This is kind of good, but not THAT good once opponent learns to Flawless Block the last hit. The second hit can't stagger into the third because Kano has such a crazy recovery on 24. It's actually even really punishable if you stop at 24. Still though, if your opponent isn't looking for it or you cancel into Chemical Burn on block after 24, this could be really good.

8) B4 is only -5 on block now
While it's only a 2 frame change in the beta, I see this as one of Kano's strongest moves. He low profiles highs very quickly with this into a hard-knockdown so I already expect to use it a good amount in the footsie war. I wonder if it'll even low profile some mids!
Here's the startup animation on B4:

==========================================

Overall I'm SOOO happy now. Kano finally makes sense as a character with these changes from the beta. To say I'm relieved is a fucking understatement because Kano seems REALLY GOOD now. I could already see a ton of people wanting to pick him up.

I'm so ready to fuck some people up now. UGH!!!
 
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RoboCop

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
It's looking like he's got some strong, fast lows and slow-as-balls overhead starters, and strings that end in lows and overheads. Between that and his command throw, he should have no problems opening up his opponents. That said, I'm not thrilled that his fastest mid/low is 12 frames. He's going to be a poking bag! (Which is just a poke version of "punching bag" and isn't meant to be nearly as dirty as it sounds...)
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
karaokelove said:
It's looking like he's got some strong, fast lows and slow-as-balls overhead starters, and strings that end in lows and overheads. Between that and his command throw, he should have no problems opening up his opponents. That said, I'm not thrilled that his fastest mid/low is 12 frames. He's going to be a poking bag! (Which is just a poke version of "punching bag" and isn't meant to be nearly as dirty as it sounds...)
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His overhead and his low are definitely react-able if you are looking for them.

His overhead starts up in 25 frames (but is safe'ish at -7). His low starter F2 starts up in 13 frames but is punishable as hell at -14 on block.
Still though, yeah, if someone isn't looking for it, they're going to eat a ton of overheads lol.

The command grab ticking from 11 is also SOO dirty because he could get good pressure after F1 lol. I wonder what other normals he could tick-throw from besides his low pokes.
 
DubiousShenron

DubiousShenron

Beware my power.
Air ball is 6 frames now that’s dirty. Pocket sand still super minus but hopefully they buffed the hitbox and pushback.

Edit: sorry had to charge my phone. Faster ground ball, b2 up from 13 to 14 frames with massive hit advantage, safer and faster b3. Also they even made 21 a faster 11 frame high to low mixup which makes it our fastest hitting mid out of a string. I’m honestly surprised the low comes out that fast.
 
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Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
What a great day for Kano mains. All my major concerns for Kano were completely alleviated.

I feel this iteration of frame data has brought clarity to Kano's overall gameplan.

Great
  • AIR AMP KANOBALL IS SAFE. It's -10 oB block and unless some character has a godlike far reaching 9 framer, we safe. This is absurdly good. We can cancel J3s into air ball for shits and if it connects we get a nice 20% chunk of damage. This is gonna make Kano annoying af in neutral lol. I really wanna test how low we can instant air that bitch.
  • Kanoball comes out a frame faster and amped version is much better on block (-12 oB). Doubt it's safe but depending on the amount of pushback on block, this might be a hard punish.
  • 24 1+3 is +1 oB... Manhandled is essential now if you ask me. Not only gives us a great KB, WE HAVE A LAUNCHING STRING THAT IS +1 ON BLOCK. Any hit of the string connects, amplify for launch into nice damage. Opponent blocks, we still +1. This is too nice.
  • F4 IS SAFE, praise be. It's gonna be much easier to open up people to lows now. Also, we now know the condition for the F43 KB-- "Triggers if opponent BLOCKS LATE." I assume this means if opponent hits block within a few frames of the hit landing, it triggers. Sounds useful, I was afraid it was gonna be some "land 3 in a row" type shit.
  • Kano has overall fantastic looking offense and pressure now. Between F1(+1), F12B2(+2), 112(+2), 21 1+3 (+1)... we have options. We can frame trap into D1s and bait out counter pokes for whiff punishes all day. Once we condition people into respecting the frames, we start tick throwing their ass for 18% a pop. KBs on BOTH regular throws comes into play. We've got a safe overhead (F4) and an unreactable, far-reaching low (F2). We get great oki off splat knockdowns on a number of moves.
Good
  • B3 is a frame faster and recovers a frame quicker. Our (likely) best krushing blow just got even better. At just -4 oB, I think if spaced properly we'll be baiting counter poke and B2 whiff punishing all day. Between F1 and B3, our midrange is looking great. Condition opponent to respect the mid B3 and start getting in at advantage with the high F1.
  • B2 is a frame slower but gives a longer pop-up. I wonder if we can get a dash-cancel in to convert more damage.
  • B4 a frame faster and is safe now.
Meh
  • I feel like we're deficient on krushing blows. On his base setup, Kano only has B3 counterhit and back throw KBs (plus the universal D2 and forward throw KBs). Not a single KB on any of Kano's strings. I really hoped we would get a pop-up KB off one of his standing 1 or 2 strings that triggers on punish like a lot of characters have. From the info we have, Ripper will have 2 additional KBs (lumbar check and F34) and none on Dirtbag...
  • Chemical burn is still seems to be doodoo. Still -22 oB and apparently we can now amp it on block and end up -49 oB....
  • Molotov ain't lookin any better either. Not sure how we can throw it out without getting murdered.
  • I would only pick Dirtbag over Ripper if I was desperate af for an armored kanoball in a matchup. I haven't seen any zoning I don't think I could not get around with air ball and F3. We'll see what those vegemite cancels do and if that armor comes out on frame 1...
 
Murderation76

Murderation76

knife boi
Yo @Circus , I saw you were asking for a pic showing pushback of air amped kanoball on block in another thread. Check out the most recent belt battle on KK where Derek plays Kano. I assume this is the most recent build, since they were showing off tournament mode. There are like 10 blocked amp airballs in that match not one gets punished (of course this is Tyler we're talking about).


13984


13985
 
Circus

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
Murderation76 said:
Yo @Circus , I saw you were asking for a pic showing pushback of air amped kanoball on block in another thread. Check out the most recent belt battle on KK where Derek plays Kano. I assume this is the most recent build, since they were showing off tournament mode. There are like 10 blocked amp airballs in that match not one gets punished (of course this is Tyler we're talking about).


View attachment 13984


View attachment 13985
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RIGHT OUT OF JAB RANGE and -10 LOL!!!!

I could hear the trumpets blasting "NERF THIS PLZ" already.
This isn't just good, this is CRAZY!!!!

@Murderation76 we picked ourselves a fucking winner man!!!! The amount of dirt we could think up with just this is insanity.
 
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