MK11 Kano Discussion

[TheJaquio]

The Good:

1.
At least Kano has a variation where Vege-Mighty is present. Outside of the command grab, it's the move I wanted the most because I feel it's critical to use in some matchups.

2.
Lumbar Check and Manhandled together means that from a 241 you could get about 32% I'd imagine.

3.
Chemical Burn is with Vege-Mighty.
Even though it wouldn't be my preferred choice, if you could still cancel the recovery of Vege-Mighty into another special move, having that special move be a safe'ish one could create some interesting situations.

The Bad:

1.
Molotov Cocktail.... sigh.
They said that they were going to give characters special moves that they believe will give them the best chance to win. I hope I'm just severely underselling this extraordinarily slow move. I really hope they didn't just pair it with Chemical Burn for the gimmick of exploding someone if they are burnt while poisoned, and if they did, that it's at least ACTUALLY viable in the matchups that Vege-Mighty will be relevant (vs strong zoning....). Ridiculously disappointing, but I'm hoping for the best.

2. Rack Off Parry.
It's not what I would have personally preferred, but hey, at least it has it's uses.

3.
Lack of Snake Bite and Bio-Magnectic Pull.
Both these moves seem extraordinary. I'm at a lose of words tbh.

============================================================================


I'm still maining Kano 1000%, lets get that straight, but man. This hit me hard in the gut. I've been theory crafting so much that this is going to take me a while to get accustomed to.

That said, this isn't the worst thing ever. I could work with both of these. Like I said, I'm just EXTREMELY glad they put Vege-Mighty in there somehow. At least now I could start theory crafting correctly with all this info.

Now I just want to know what they have changed from the pre-release build to the final build as far as his frame-data goes.
That's the last thing I'm really dying to see. Things change all the time for them, and I know they really are striving to make all characters as viable as possible.

IMO these Kano variations are confirmation of exactly what everyone was afraid of when they dropped the bomb on us that custom variations are relegated to casual mode. These tournament presets feature some moves that are, at least in theory, explicitly less useful than other moves that have been left out entirely.

 

[Circus]

B3 in the release build:

B3 in current build:

Is it only me, or does it seem like B3 recovers faster now?
If that's the case, that's GREAT news.

In the demo build it was 17f startup and -5 on block. I wonder if the recovery has been improved?

If it is, then that'd be amazing for Kano.
@Murderation76 what do you think?

 

[kantboy-2]

I'll play Ripper for sure, since Commando was the version I played 99.9% of the time.

But you can tell they just didn't think this whole variation thing through and just ran out of time. He still needs a side switch command grab and, no, combo extenders don't count.

So much for Snake Bite; can't use it in a tournament.

 

[Circus]

The more I'm brainstorming, the more I think I'm okay with the way Kano is right now.
I just really want to hit the lab BADLY.

Ripper Damage Thoughts (Lumber Check/Rack Off Parry/Manhandled):

The big thing I'm wondering now is if 214amplify(with Manhandled) will land and launch after a B2 launch....

Would this work?
B2(Launch), 214Amplify, F2xxLumbarCheck Amplify

If so, then Kano is still going to get some beefy damage off of B2, maybe around 35%. This is really critical because it's his main whiff punish.
If you CAN'T relaunch with 214(Amplified w/Manhandled) after B2 then all he'd be able to get is 22xxLumbarCheck which would suck.

Either way, it's looking to me like Ripper will be his damage and mixup variation and Dirtbag will be his anti-zoning variation.

Dirtbag Damage Thoughts (Vege-Mighty/Molotov/Chemical Burn):

Kano has his F3 that he could use to roll under slow startup high projectiles and Air Ball that he could use vs projectiles with slow recovery, but against stronger zoning tools like Cetrion's Air Beam and Boulders, Vege-Mighty is going to be really amazing. The trade off will be that his damage won't be the hottest, but it won't be horrible either because of Vege-Mighty.

Dirtbag without any combo extenders at all might be able to get:

8 frame punish: 11xxVege-MightyxxBall (might not work)
9 frame punish: 22xxChemical Burn
13frame punish: B2 22xxVege-MightyxxBall
(remember that you could cancel into Vege-Mighty then cancel Vege-Mighty into ANOTHER special move as if it were a string)

Spoiler

Check the rare and weird Cancel Advantage on a Special Move that can't be amplified:

or

13frame punish into +47 knockdown(demo frame data): F12B2
This option might be good to setup the extremely slow Molotov Cocktail?


I'm slowly becoming more and more OK with these variation choices.
Molotov Cocktail could suck my entire ass though.

B3 in the release build:

B3 in current build:

Is it only me, or does it seem like B3 recovers faster now?
If that's the case, that's GREAT news.

In the demo build it was 17f startup and -5 on block. I wonder if the recovery has been improved?

If it is, then that'd be amazing for Kano.
@Murderation76 what do you think?

Nvm, I just slowed it down frame by frame and it's the exact same. It'll most likely remain 17frame startup and -5 on block.

 

[Circus]

Dirtbag Discovery (Vege-Mighty/Molotov/Chemical Burn):

So I've been thinking about the combination of Vege-Mighty and Chemical Burn too.

Spoiler

If you could cancel Vege-Mighty into another special move ..... and Chemical Burn is relatively safe ....... doesn't that means you could make a little stagger trap for your opponent almost like a cancel that another character would have?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
This would be AMAZING actually.

Lets say that you do F12xxVege-Mighty.
Your opponent will expect you to continue on with a Chemical Burn....
... but instead you just grab their ass, go for some pressure, or go for a mixup.

This would be crazy good offense tbh.

That AND if F12 is + on hit enough, F12xxVege-MightyxxBall might even combo into some decent while-standing damage.

Either way, because Vege-Mighty recovers so quickly, this has the potential to create some SICK pressure that Kano never had before and wouldn't have in Ripper. He'd be an offense beast! I'm actually pretty excited about it.

Kano players rejoice!!!!

@Murderation76 I hope this makes you a little happier lol. It's actually a pretty hype combination.

Molotov Cocktail could still suck my entire ass.

 

[Murderation76]

@Circus I definitely admire your optimism. Truth is, we just won't know the potential of vegemighty until we can hit the lab. While you can cancel vegemighty into a special, I assume you cannot cancel it into a normal/string. So if you do F12xxvegemighty on block and don't cancel it into chemical burn (or whatever special), you would still be stuck with the full 26f recovery. I believe this would be poked out on reaction.

Also, I doubt F12xxVegemightyxxKanoball will combo unless the opponent is in a juggle state. If it combos on the ground, that would definitely be sick.

Some of my impressions of the competitive variations with my notes on each special:

Ripper

Commando 2.0. Overall I'm pretty content to roll with this loadout. I think this the variation Paulo/NRS is intending to be Kano's primary build. Despite what 16bit said, he has no OH/L 50/50s. Command grab will be Kano's essential offensive mixup tool. I believe his main mixups will be strike/throw and stagger string/tick throw.

Lumbar Check-
14f command grab, 13% dmg/18% dmg on amplify. Oki seems strong, allows for dash up meaty or another lumbar check possibly. Krushing blow on wake-up tech roll leads to 23%dmg+DOT=32%dmg. What I'm dying to know is what buttons and strings we can tick off of. We know for sure 11 ticks. I would assume d1 ticks. If F1, F12, F2 or 22 ticks, then we're cookin with gas.

Manhandled-

• Adds 22 1+3 amplification. 3rd hit is OH, switches sides and gives 20% damage for the full string. Safe on block (-5).
• Adds 24 1+3 amplification. 2nd hit is low, switches sides and gives air launch. Unclear if this string will relaunch an already juggle state opponent (fingers crossed). Safe on block (-7). Having a safe launching string is rare among the cast and is the best utility gained from manhandled IMO.
• Adds F43. F4 is his punishable 24f overhead that normally gives a splat knockdown by itself. With F43 extension, you give up mid-screen oki and get 13.6% dmg + a full screen of corner carry. F43 also has a krushing blow, I'm not sure of the conditions but that in itself is a HUGE asset. Even though F4 is slow and unsafe, this extension gives much better reward for the risk and will help open up the opponent up to lows (F2, 24 1+3)

Rack Off-
11f parry, 11% dmg/17% dmg on amplify. Regular version may give dash-up oki, but (unfortunately) amplified sends the opponent almost full screen. With the slow start up I think it won't have much utility in neutral. Will likely be great for canceling into parry from stagger strings like F12 or canceling off blocked d1s against counterpoke-happy opponents. Will be nice to shit on the opponent by calling out wake-up U3s. Between parry and the lumbar check KB on wake up rolls, Kano has strong tools to scare opponent into just wake-up blocking, which in turn sets up tick grabs.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of competitive variations shake out across the cast. I have a strong suspicion a lot of characters will not be getting their combo-extender moves as we've seen with Kano. No gutted for Baraka, no hook grab for Kabal, etc. NRS might be aiming for most BNBs to be doing around 25% dmg. People are gonna be PISSED, lol. There is gonna be a salt tsunami headed for NRS. The day we get customs in competitive/ranked will be a beautiful one.

 

[Murderation76]

Dirtbag

It's not clear what the gameplan is here. I'll reserve any harsh criticism until I actually get my hands on the game. This variation has no combo-extender. We'll be getting like 15% dmg per touch, with the exception of a B2 launch. This variation would make so much more sense to me as a defensive loadout if molotov was swapped for optic blast.

Vegemighty-
This is by far the most interesting tool in this loadout. Buffs kanoball and air kanoball damage as well as adding a hit of armor. 26f of recovery, cancelable into specials. The buff appears to last quite a while passively, however you lose it after a single armored kanoball. The big question: What frame does the armor start? If we get frame 1 armor, holy shit this will be an amazing defensive asset.

Chemical Burn-
14f mid, leaves opponent standing (+1 on hit). Does DOT on normal hit (not sure how much total--at least 9%), amplified version gives a flat 12%dmg and sends opponent full screen. Has built-in back dash but is -22 on block (???). This seems to be intended as a safe ender and "get off me" tool.... but if the frame data is correct, I have to assume this move is punishable by characters with a fast, far-reaching move like Baraka's F4. The range on this move is garbage. On KombatKast, you can see this move straight up whiff after a blocked 22 and D1 (completely defeating the purpose of a safe ender). I wonder if maybe this move restands juggle-state opponents, which would make it actually useful. It would make more sense to pair this with optic blast, as to send the opponent full screen with the amplified version and zone.

Molotov-
Slow as shit 80f startup, but it's important to note that it is 80 frames from startup to active DOT. I've counted the frames and Kano is released from the animation around frame 60. So Kano may get a safe setup from something like B2, 22xxmolotov. I don't think even the splat knockdowns from F4 or F12B1 will allow for a safe setup. If the opponent is in the flames for the entire time, it only does 12%DOT. Even if there is synergy between molotov and chemical burn, I seriously doubt there being any practical application in-match. Unless this move has been completely retooled since the demo, shits garbage.

 

[NothingPersonal]

@Circus I definitely admire your optimism. Truth is, we just won't know the potential of vegemighty until we can hit the lab. While you can cancel vegemighty into a special, I assume you cannot cancel it into a normal/string. So if you do F12xxvegemighty on block and don't cancel it into chemical burn (or whatever special), you would still be stuck with the full 26f recovery. I believe this would be poked out on reaction.

Also, I doubt F12xxVegemightyxxKanoball will combo unless the opponent is in a juggle state. If it combos on the ground, that would definitely be sick.

Some of my impressions of the competitive variations with my notes on each special:

Ripper

Commando 2.0. Overall I'm pretty content to roll with this loadout. I think this the variation Paulo/NRS is intending to be Kano's primary build. Despite what 16bit said, he has no OH/L 50/50s. Command grab will be Kano's essential offensive mixup tool. I believe his main mixups will be strike/throw and stagger string/tick throw.

Lumbar Check-
14f command grab, 13% dmg/18% dmg on amplify. Oki seems strong, allows for dash up meaty or another lumbar check possibly. Krushing blow on wake-up tech roll leads to 23%dmg+DOT=32%dmg. What I'm dying to know is what buttons and strings we can tick off of. We know for sure 11 ticks. I would assume d1 ticks. If F1, F12, F2 or 22 ticks, then we're cookin with gas.

Manhandled-
-Adds 22 1+3 amplification. 3rd hit is OH, switches sides and gives 20% damage for the full string. Safe on block (-5).
-Adds 24 1+3 amplification. 2nd hit is low, switches sides and gives air launch. Unclear if this string will relaunch an already juggle state opponent (fingers crossed). Safe on block (-7). Having a safe launching string is rare among the cast and is the best utility gained from manhandled IMO.
-Adds F43. F4 is his punishable 24f overhead that normally gives a splat knockdown by itself. With F43 extension, you give up mid-screen oki and get 13.6% dmg + a full screen of corner carry. F43 also has a krushing blow, I'm not sure of the conditions but that in itself is a HUGE asset. Even though F4 is slow and unsafe, this extension gives much better reward for the risk and will help open up the opponent up to lows (F2, 24 1+3)

Rack Off-
11f parry, 11% dmg/17% dmg on amplify. Regular version may give dash-up oki, but (unfortunately) amplified sends the opponent almost full screen. With the slow start up I think it won't have much utility in neutral. Will likely be great for canceling into parry from stagger strings like F12 or canceling off blocked d1s against counterpoke-happy opponents. Will be nice to shit on the opponent by calling out wake-up U3s. Between parry and the lumbar check KB on wake up rolls, Kano has strong tools to scare opponent into just wake-up blocking, which in turn sets up tick grabs.

It will be interesting to see how the rest of competitive variations shake out across the cast. I have a strong suspicion a lot of characters will not be getting their combo-extender moves as we've seen with Kano. No gutted for Baraka, no hook grab for Kabal, etc. NRS might be aiming for most BNBs to be doing around 25% dmg. People are gonna be PISSED, lol. There is gonna be a salt tsunami headed for NRS. The day we get customs in competitive/ranked will be a beautiful one.

Yeap, pretty much. Except maybe I will replace the parry when the game launches if there are better alternatives.

 

[NothingPersonal]

I'll play Ripper for sure, since Commando was the version I played 99.9% of the time.

But you can tell they just didn't think this whole variation thing through and just ran out of time. He still needs a side switch command grab and, no, combo extenders don't count.

So much for Snake Bite; can't use it in a tournament.

I think snake bite would've been better than the parry. If they are interchangeable I will replace them for sure in customs.

 

[Circus]

@Circus I definitely admire your optimism. Truth is, we just won't know the potential of vegemighty until we can hit the lab. While you can cancel vegemighty into a special, I assume you cannot cancel it into a normal/string. So if you do F12xxvegemighty on block and don't cancel it into chemical burn (or whatever special), you would still be stuck with the full 26f recovery. I believe this would be poked out on reaction.

Some of the frame data is bound to change from the demo up to release, so I'm staying optimistic that the Vege-Mighty/Chemical Burn stagger strategy will end up being the strength of the variation in the long run. It's be unfortunate if the only reason someone would pick Dirtbag is "I need Vege-Mighty for this matchup against harsh zoning".

========================================
The goal is to use as many of a character’s equippable moves across these variations as possible (so each one might see tournament play), but the priority will be to make sure these variations give every character a strong toolset. “They're definitely well thought-out, it's not like we just went 'Oh, cool, these three things look cool, slap those in.'” says NetherRealm lead designer John Edwards.

-Gameinformer interviewing John Edwards
https://www.gameinformer.com/2019/04/02/how-mortal-kombat-11s-custom-variations-will-work-in-competitive-play
========================================

I like to think that NRS put a lot of thought into putting these things together.

In the beta, people came to the conclusion that Baraka had two main ways he could play that'd be successful. He could go for the heavy damage with Gutted or he could go for the utility of the Blood Lunge command grab for less damage but a way easier way of opening the opponent up.

Similar to this, I think that Kano's Ripper is going to be his damage and command grab variation, but Dirtbag will give utility with armor and improved pressure with staggers.

It's optimistic, yeah, but in my head I think this would be the only way for Dirtbag to realistically be an option people would want to choose over Ripper (which is clearly good).

Molotov-
Slow as shit 80f startup, but it's important to note that it is 80 frames from startup to active DOT. I've counted the frames and Kano is released from the animation around frame 60. So Kano may get a safe setup from something like B2, 22xxmolotov. I don't think even the splat knockdowns from F4 or F12B1 will allow for a safe setup. If the opponent is in the flames for the entire time, it only does 12%DOT.

In the Kano Kombat Kast:

B2, 22 10% damage
B2, 22xxBall 17% damage

If all the DoT is applied after B2, 22xxMolotov then it would equal about 22% damage, but there is more to it in a way.
The opponent would be more inclined to roll out of the fire so it'd open up the throw game more and if they don't you could pressure them with staggers as they burn.

I'm not saying that Molotov is good, because it's not compared to anything else. I'm not that blind lol, but yeah, I think there might be something here at least.

We just have to wait and see what NRS have tweaked, knowing that they will have this as a tournament variation, and if it's at all viable.
But yeah, feeling optimistic.

 

[Murderation76]

Similar to this, I think that Kano's Ripper is going to be his damage and command grab variation, but Dirtbag will give utility with armor and improved pressure with staggers.

It's optimistic, yeah, but in my head I think this would be the only way for Dirtbag to realistically be an option people would want to choose over Ripper (which is clearly good).

Yeah, at this point I'm giving NRS the benefit of the doubt and saying that there has to be something I'm missing about Dirtbag. Chemical burn and molotov must have some utility that isn't clear from the information we currently have.

Tell you what... Kano has almost absurd amounts of corner carry. Between air and regular amplified Kanoballs, both give splat hard knockdown and massive corner carry). If we do have safe molotov setups AND chemical burn restands juggle-state opponents AND vegemighty gives frame 1 armor, Dirtbag could be an absolute corner MONSTER.

 

[Circus]

Molotov Stuff:

B2, 11xxMolotov
Absolutely does not work.

B2, 4xxMolotov

Works slightly better.... not the greatest, but yeah, it's SOMETHING...

The thing is, this combo only did 11dmg. If he would have just done Amplified Dragon Ball he would have equaled just about the same amount of damage from the combo itself because the Molotov does 12% MAX.

Yea... so..... I hope they either changed Molotov a bit, changed his frame data around so there are actual setups, or I'm overlooking something huge.

Black Dragon Ball Anti-Air:

Here's a gif showing how good of an anti-air grounded Ball is.
Johnny is practically at the peak of his jump here and still gets slapped out of the air.

Who needs UpBall when your normal ball does it all?

 

[Murderation76]

B2, 11xxMolotov
Absolutely does not work.

Yeah.... that's a yikes bro.

I went and looked at that vid frame by frame.

• One thing I hadn't noticed before: Each version of molotov has slightly different startup--- Close-75f, Mid-78f, Far-80f. In each of these gifs, he's doing the mid version where we would obviously want close.
• B2, 11xxMolotov is guaranteed Kano is getting full combo punished.
• B2, 4xxMolotov might be safe with the close molotov, but may get blown up if opponent reads it and wakes up U2 for full combo. This setup is probably worthless either way lol.
• I also counted frames on Erron Black's acid vial and from start up to active DOT is around 35 frames (and caltrops in MKX were 40f).... soooo, tf is goin on here?

And on that Kanoball gif, that's definitely a nice hitbox. I've noticed that his straight ball has a slight upward arc to it now, so NRS may intend for it to AA. However, I think at the distance Johnny is jumping from B2 should catch it for full combo. The thing about his upball was its 7f startup. It was a great reversal too, it could punish a few things that his 1 was too slow for. I'm REALLY hoping standing 1 or 2 (or even D1) has nice AA hitbox on it so we can convert for a nice chunks of damage.

 

[Killusion]

So I guess they don't want Kano to have long combos? That's ok but it is lame that there are once again cool moves that you can't use.

I'm optimistic about Molotov and Dirtbag variation. No way that horrid frame data is final lol.

 

[Error404]

I can't see any character without atleast launching strings winning even a round in this game. If not snake bite , why not atleast make the launching low universal? All of this just seems awful to me .

 

[DubiousShenron]

@Circus if you wanna end a combo into a knockdown with Molotov, you’re gonna want to end with f2xxmolotov. I know f2 has 60 frames hit advantage

 

[Circus]

@Circus if you wanna end a combo into a knockdown with Molotov, you’re gonna want to end with f2xxmolotov. I know f2 has 60 frames hit advantage

It's a good point, this would potentially work.

The thing is that Molotov only does 12% maximum damage if all the DoT is applied. If you do F2xxAmplifiedBall you'd get the same damage or more guaranteed. Either way you look at it, there is really no huge incentive in going for this as a combo ender in the demo-build instead of just ending the combo normally.

Like @Killusion said though, I'm feeling optimistic that they tweaked some stuff and it'll have some usage at launch though.

 

[DubiousShenron]

It's a good point, this would potentially work.

The thing is that Molotov only does 12% maximum damage if all the DoT is applied. If you do F2xxAmplifiedBall you'd get the same damage or more guaranteed. Either way you look at it, there is really no huge incentive in going for this as a combo ender in the demo-build instead of just ending the combo normally.

Like @Killusion said though, I'm feeling optimistic that they tweaked some stuff and it'll have some usage at launch though.

You’re thinking of the Molotov way too literally man. Just having it out on the screen is better than the potential damage it can do. Wherever it is on the screen, the opponent will avoid. The mindgames of having Molotov is better than the actual damage potential, it should open up all your other moves once you have it out

 

[Murderation76]

@Circus if you wanna end a combo into a knockdown with Molotov, you’re gonna want to end with f2xxmolotov. I know f2 has 60 frames hit advantage

This is a good point. However, say F2xx gives 60 frames of advantage. Close molotov isnt active until 75f, 15 frames after opponent wakes up. Kano isn't released from the animation until 60-65f. So this might be a safe molotov setup but Kano has no advanatage on wakeup to apply further pressure. If the opponent is aware of this, there is no mindgame--- they know they can simply wake up poke or maybe even jump out. It's not real.

You’re thinking of the Molotov way too literally man. Just having it out on the screen is better than the potential damage it can do. Wherever it is on the screen, the opponent will avoid. The mindgames of having Molotov is better than the actual damage potential, it should open up all your other moves once you have it out

You're absolutley right, but normally these type of DOT setups (EB's caltrops, BRC's dragon breath) you sacrifice your combo-ender for to safely setup the DOT AND still have advantage for pressure/mixup whatever. On top of this, Dirtbag has absolute garbage damage potential. He's gonna have to take all the damage possible per touch, so giving up 7-10% damage for a DOT setup that also gives up your turn sounds dodgy.

Perhap chemical burn/molotov have a similar synergy to Tanya's purple dust/fireball and give like a 20% chunk of damage if a molotov hits while chemical burn DOT is active? There's gotta be something to make it worthwhile...

 

[Murderation76]

What do you guys think of this?

https://j.gifs.com/GvMZg0.gif

Looks like Kano's air ball might give a launch if it hits air-to-air. It looks real tight but he might be able get a standing 1 in after the bounce to convert for a full combo. Maybe even standing 2 could connect and Ripper could relaunch and get like 30%+dmg off this. This would be amazing.

What if we can even rebounce a juggled opponent mid-combo with an instant-air? In MKX, IA kanoballs could come out in like 2 frames with proper execution.

I'm just tryna figure out how NRS is justifying a Kano variation having the same combo potential as Jade, but not nearly as good neutral tools.

 

[Circus]

It seems like in Ripper Kano MIGHT get a good chunk of damage from B2, but outside of that and just flat out starting a combo with 241, he's going to just have to end combos in Amplified Kano Ball. This would still average about 18-22% I'd imagine though, which is about the amount Jade gets (and Baraka without Gutted).

What I've been thinking is that we might be really underselling how good of a combination Kano's Knives and Grounded Balls are just on their own with some of his normals.

Every knife toss recovers really quickly so if the opponent tries to walk forward after ducking one, Kano could just surprise Dragon Ball and it'll hit because of the fast startup of Ball, the fast recovery of knife, and the fact that Ball is a mid. Combine this with the fact that it'll be difficult to zone Kano out with traditional high projectiles because he could roll under stuff with F3, he could also jump over projectiles and Air Ball on the slower recovery of the opponent's stuff, he has great whiff punishing tools, and the opponent jumping anywhere will get them anti-aired with Grounded Ball.

That's some pretty good neutral tbh. Sure, doing a Kano Ball on a read that the opponent will walk forward is risky, but if you get them scared of it, you basically control the entire screen. No other character we've seen so far could do this because their 11frame advancing move is a high just like their projectile OR the projectile recovers slowish (Baraka). It would play into how 16bit described him as "high risk" too.

Ball might have that "built in mixup" of Amplify or no Amplify kind of how Scorpion has with his teleport too.

He also does have F12 which is 0 on block. An advancing normal string that leaves you at 0 on block isn't anything to write off. That's pretty damn good in a game like this.

My whole thing is though, if Kano can't play his knife game at all in a matchup and he's forced to just be the aggressor and make his way in, will his tools up close be enough? In my head, I think he still will be a force to be reckoned with. I hope he could still be good without being TOO risky and that he will have what it takes to at least go decently-even in all of his matchups across both his variations.

Personally, just because of Vege-Mighty alone, I'm leaning more toward Dirtbag at the moment. I'll use both of course, but that is why I'm really trying to make Dirtbag work in my head.

What do you guys think of this?

View attachment 13775

https://j.gifs.com/GvMZg0.gif

Looks like Kano's air ball might give a launch if it hits air-to-air. It looks real tight but he might be able get a standing 1 in after the bounce to convert for a full combo. Maybe even standing 2 could connect and Ripper could relaunch and get like 30%+dmg off this. This would be amazing.

What if we can even rebounce a juggled opponent mid-combo with an instant-air? In MKX, IA kanoballs could come out in like 2 frames with proper execution.

I'm just tryna figure out how NRS is justifying a Kano variation having the same combo potential as Jade, but not nearly as good neutral tools.

That pop up might have been implemented just so the Amplified version doesn't whiff strangely and/or it won't be negative on hit.

 

[DubiousShenron]

It seems like in Ripper Kano MIGHT get a good chunk of damage from B2, but outside of that and just flat out starting a combo with 241, he's going to just have to end combos in Amplified Kano Ball. This would still average about 18-22% I'd imagine though, which is about the amount Jade gets (and Baraka without Gutted).

What I've been thinking is that we might be really underselling how good of a combination Kano's Knives and Grounded Ball is just on their own with some of his normals.

Every knife toss recovers really quickly so if the opponent tries to walk forward after ducking one Kano could just surprise Dragon Ball and it'll hit because of the fast startup of Ball, the fast recovery of knife, and the fact that Ball is a mid. Combine this with the fact that it'll be difficult to zone Kano out with traditional high projectiles because he could roll under stuff with F3, he could also jump over projectiles and Air Ball on the slower recovery of the opponent's stuff, he has great whiff punishing tools, and the opponent jumping anywhere will get them anti-aired with Grounded Ball.

That's some pretty good neutral tbh. Sure, doing a Kano Ball on a read that the opponent will walk forward is a risky read, but if you get them scared of it, you basically control the entire screen. No other character we've seen so far could do this because their 11frame advancing move is a high just like their projectile OR the projectile recovers slowish (Baraka). It would play into how 16 described him as "high risk" too.

H also does have F12 which is 0 on block. An advancing normal string that leaves you at 0 on block isn't anything to write off. That's pretty damn good in a game like this.

My whole thing is though, if Kano can't play his knife game at all in a matchup and he's forced to just be the aggressor and make his way in, will his tools up close be enough? In my head, I think he still will be a force to be reckoned with. I hope he could still be good without being TOO risky and that he will have what it takes to at least go decently-even in all of his matchups across both his variations.

Personally, just because of Vege-Mighty alone, I'm leaning more toward Dirtbag at the moment. I'll use both of course, but that is why I'm really trying to make Dirtbag work in my head.




That pop up might have been implemented just so the Amplified version doesn't whiff strangely and/or it won't be negative on hit.

I’m playing dirtbag. The only problem I have with the variation is the lack of a second combo ender besides Kano ball. If I have vegemite active and want to end a combo, I have to use my armor that I could have saved when I reset to neutral.

I’m sure f2xxvegetmitexxkanoball will be a combo ender though which might help balance it out

 

[Circus]

I’m playing dirtbag. The only problem I have with the variation in the lack of a second combo enter besides Kano ball. If I have vegemite active and want to end a combo, I have to use my armor that I could have saved when I reset to neutral.

I’m sure f2xxvegetmitexxkanoball will be a combo ended though which might help balance it out

Yea.

B2, F2xxVege-MightyxxAmplified-Ball does seem like it'd work. That'd probably be like 25%

 

[DubiousShenron]

Yea.

B2, F2xxVege-MightyxxAmplified-Ball does seem like it'd work. That'd probably be like 25%

I can totally deal with that 25% meterless punish and not to mention also a mixup. Dirtbag Kano becomes more attractive the more you think of it as a defensive hit and run character. The only weakness he has in neutral is a good close range anti air now that we don’t have freakin up ball. Other than that, his neutral game will frustrate the hell out of people and force them to make mistakes..

Edit: also note we only know like 2 of his krushing blows so he will be getting more damage from somewhere. Since KBs are the meta, you really don’t know your character unless you know their KBs

 

[Murderation76]

Yo guys, leaks are trickling out. Someone has posted all the preset variations for all characters. Of course there will be a huge day 1 patch, so I take all of it with a grain of salt. Both of Kano's variation are as shown on KombatKast. I did notice that Snakebite is now a two slot move. Not sure why they value it so high, especially when Bio-magnetic pull is still 1 slot.

EDIT: Manhandled description says it allows F4 to be canceled into snakebite, so that explains the two slot value. It will probably allow F4xxsnakebite amp->combo ender for nice damage.