MK11 KABAL Discussion

[Jhonnykiller45]

Air straight buzzsaw is really good in the Kabal mirror match I think. Especially if the other Kabal has the low buzzsaw. You can shorthop and then throw it just low enough to hit them but high enough to avoid the buzzsaw.

 

[roosTakk]

Maybe we should have a 2011 reunion. I play on ps4 though. better competition

Word, I plan on getting one for the release

 

[M2Dave]

It's clear you don't have any vision nor did you really objectively analyze my post. I don't see how an adequate zoner can't understand the drastic difference in Kabal and skarlets zoning abilities. It's clear as day to me.

You are comparing Skarlet to Freddy who is one of the best zoning characters in modern fighting game history and one with whom I placed top 8 at Evolution 2012. I would like to believe that I have at least a little bit of credibility to dispute your argument without you questioning my vision of zoning. LOL.

Also Freddie's 50/50s are completely irrelevant to the discussion skarlets normals control space more adequately and supplement a zoning playstyles better. Hence why Freddie couldn't compete with smoke in the footsies game.

I agree with your point about Skarlet's normal attacks controlling space more efficiently than Freddy's. However, Smoke loses to rush down and high mobility characters such as Cage, Kung Lao, and Sonya. Kitana, for example, has great footsies in Mortal Kombat 9 yet still loses terribly to Smoke.

Yes he does but what he can safley follow up with it is only D1, D2, 111, 11, F22, 22, F224, F4, D3, D4. For mix-up off the Restand (Extended Hook) all he has is two options the throw (LB) and an overhead(F224) this overhead doesn't lead to combo and one can be ducked and the other blocked. He is only able to use moves that are 12 frames or less after NOT his overheads that lead to combo like B12. Ohh and that OH F224 is 12 frames of startup so if you wanna do that after Restand you have to be frame perfect. But yes he can restand into Throw which can be ducked and then teched.

You claim Kabal has limited options after the re-stand, yet you listed ten different ones. Thank you for doing the research because I was oblivious to all the follow ups. The point is the re-stand meta is consistent with the game's meter-building system. Characters are unlikely to gain any advantage higher than +10 on a re-stand in a game in which meter builds automatically, yet you seem to be implying that Kabal's options are somehow insufficient. They are not. Besides, nobody wants to fight another pre-patch Quan Chi.

As far as Honey Bee is concerned, he either used the incorrect variation or he did not have the aerial downward buzz saw equipped, and I already explained why this move is crucial. Also, with all due respect to Honey Bee, I trust Sonic Fox to break down a new character at a much faster pace than anyone else in this community.

 

[Marinjuana]

I keep seeing people say it but the downward saw isn't a gear move. It's also stupidly good lol

 

[podizzler3000]

I keep seeing people say it but the downward saw isn't a gear move. It's also stupidly good lol

yeah i cant see how anyone would ever equip straight air saw when it takes away down air saw. they should just allow them both imo

 

[Marinjuana]

yeah i cant see how anyone would ever equip straight air saw when it takes away down air saw. they should just allow them both imo

Air saw might be really good with instant airs and it could be great for shutting down air characters. But yeah I imagine regular down saw will be in most loadouts, but I also wouldn't be surprised if they made it worse on block

 

[roosTakk]

Kabal BnB Without Krushing Blows:

• B+1,2 xx Nomad Dash, 2,3 xx DB2+MB, F4 xx DB3 [Restand] (31%) [1-Bar]
• 23 xx DB2+MB, 23 xx Nomad Dash, 4 xx DB3 [Restand](37%)[1-Bar]

My fav load out:

• Rolling Buzzsaw [1 Slot]
• Hook Grab [1 Slot]
• Extended Hook [1 Slot]

Some other good options to swap with Rolling Buzzsaw are:

• Low Hook
• Straight Buzzsaw Air
• NDC if you want zero defensive meter. Still strong though.

-Gas blast blows
-Low spin blows
-Air dash can be a swaggy way to get Anti-Aired free.

Kabals best normals:

Mids:

1. F4,1+3 .[Safe] (OH)
2. B+1,2,D+2 [safe] (OH)
3. F22 (12f)

High Punishers:
23
11
221
22

This is exactly what I was looking for. Thanks man.


What is everyone elses favorite loadout so far?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

You claim Kabal has limited options after the re-stand, yet you listed ten different ones. Thank you for doing the research because I was oblivious to all the follow ups.

I never said he has limited options I said he doesn't have a true mix-up after Restand. I gave you the data in my earlier post. There are 2 viable ways to mix the opponent only for knock down. I'm saying it's far from broke.
Either of these options from all his available follow ups can happen:
Beat out by duck:
Throw, 11, 22, 23

Beat out by stand block:
F224
F4

My point is there is no way to get combo after it unless you use a Krushing Blow which is one use only on F224 and it knocks down. No combo from his options. The throw arguably the best option that is a makeshift mix-up can be ducked and if not ducked can be teched if you fail. So two chances to stop it.

Just explaining it's not broke. If it allowed him to use B12 then I'd agree it was broke.

The point is the re-stand meta is consistent with the game's meter-building system. Characters are unlikely to gain any advantage higher than +10 on a re-stand in a game in which meter builds automatically, yet you seem to be implying that Kabal's options are somehow insufficient. They are not. Besides, nobody wants to fight another pre-patch Quan Chi.

Are you serious man? It is nothing like Quan chi real mix-up/Reset into Hard To Blockables. That is complete over exaggeration in every way. It's more compareable to Bo Rai Cho after Nerf but has a few less options. I'm not saying it isn't strong but nothing warranting adjustment.
Let's see it in the full build and get practice mode up to verify frame advantage and have proper matchup knowledge before claiming characters are broke!

As far as Honey Bee is concerned, he either used the incorrect variation or he did not have the aerial downward buzz saw equipped, and I already explained why this move is crucial. Also, with all due respect to Honey Bee, I trust Sonic Fox to break down a new character at a much faster pace than anyone else in this community

No it's the right variation and the kabal is using the angled air buzzsaw .

Please look at that video first before dismissing it. Dragon is a great player. Sonic may be very good at finding tech but those players are on his level and understand how to lab up shit just as well.

I ask that you give it more time before asking for changes, this is a limited version, we don't have practice mode, the data in game may be incorrect. We shouldn't be so haisty.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I don’t know about you guys, but I’ve been using the nomad dash cancel like crazy. I know it’s the beta and people don’t know what’s going on, but it’s so much fun to do. Throws for days.

It’s ridiculous how easy the cancels are compared to A-List or Grodd.

 

[Peckapowa]

You are comparing Skarlet to Freddy who is one of the best zoning characters in modern fighting game history and one with whom I placed top 8 at Evolution 2012. I would like to believe that I have at least a little bit of credibility to dispute your argument without you questioning my vision of zoning. LOL.



I agree with your point about Skarlet's normal attacks controlling space more efficiently than Freddy's. However, Smoke loses to rush down and high mobility characters such as Cage, Kung Lao, and Sonya. Kitana, for example, has great footsies in Mortal Kombat 9 yet still loses terribly to Smoke.



You claim Kabal has limited options after the re-stand, yet you listed ten different ones. Thank you for doing the research because I was oblivious to all the follow ups. The point is the re-stand meta is consistent with the game's meter-building system. Characters are unlikely to gain any advantage higher than +10 on a re-stand in a game in which meter builds automatically, yet you seem to be implying that Kabal's options are somehow insufficient. They are not. Besides, nobody wants to fight another pre-patch Quan Chi.

As far as Honey Bee is concerned, he either used the incorrect variation or he did not have the aerial downward buzz saw equipped, and I already explained why this move is crucial. Also, with all due respect to Honey Bee, I trust Sonic Fox to break down a new character at a much faster pace than anyone else in this community.

We had the same argument about Kano and Quan chi in mkx prepatch and I'm amazed you didn't play or discover Quan in your quest for "the best zoner" when Quan was absurdly broken. It's why I question your early game foresight with this. To me it's not even a debate in mk11. But Kano was hella strong in mkx. I do appreciate your playstyle and think you are a fantastic zoner as evidenced by your zod as well. But in this case you are blind.

 

[Johnny Based Cage]

Are all you people who are going for the dash cancels generally giving up the low scoop or the restand for it?

Almost a shame he has so many sick one bar options because it’s hard to justify taking air dash (despite how cool it is) for two.

 

[BanTheTesters]

Hey gang, I have to say ive been struggling to find a character these past few days but having tried out K in the closed bata hes a whirl to play!

Im just wondering what else i can do to open up my opponent short of f224 string etc? maybe f22 low saw etc?

 

[Name v.5.0]

Are all you people who are going for the dash cancels generally giving up the low scoop or the restand for it?

Almost a shame he has so many sick one bar options because it’s hard to justify taking air dash (despite how cool it is) for two.

I gave up the low grab to do NDC. I get more mileage out of the NDC.

 

[BanTheTesters]

I gave up the low grab to do NDC. I get more mileage out of the NDC.

How’s that been working out? I take it it’s a solid tool for mix up/throws etc?

 

[Name v.5.0]

How’s that been working out? I take it it’s a solid tool for mix up/throws etc?

First off, the big thing to recognize is that we basically have no idea what the frames are on the cancels...


That being said, it’s been fantastic. It seems like no one knows how to deal with it. People try to poke when they shouldn’t, and the eat throws all day. F4 becomes a huge asset in beating their pokes, extended blade keeps you incredibly safe after a couple of cancels. It feels really strong, especially when you mix in staggers. Been thinking about ditching hook grab to use low grab to really fuck with people, but then I’d have to learn new combos. Not worth it with only a day to go.

 

[Invincible Salads]

First off, the big thing to recognize is that we basically have no idea what the frames are on the cancels...


That being said, it’s been fantastic. It seems like no one knows how to deal with it. People try to poke when they shouldn’t, and the eat throws all day. F4 becomes a huge asset in beating their pokes, extended blade keeps you incredibly safe after a couple of cancels. It feels really strong, especially when you mix in staggers. Been thinking about ditching hook grab to use low grab to really fuck with people, but then I’d have to learn new combos. Not worth it with only a day to go.

are you useing the AA grab, NDC and extended blade setup? thats what i have.

 

[Name v.5.0]

are you useing the AA grab, NDC and extended blade setup? thats what i have.

Yup. Same shit I use.

 

[Tony at Home]

Is b2 a high? Movelist says its a mid but my opponent's low pokes say otherwise

 

[[me]]

Here is some kombos from Portal Kombat team

 

[podizzler3000]

hey guys are these standing 3s or standing 4s in this combo https://www.twitch.tv/zsonicfox/clip/PhilanthropicZealousOrcaWholeWheat

 

[iAmOME]

hey guys are these standing 3s or standing 4s in this combo https://www.twitch.tv/zsonicfox/clip/PhilanthropicZealousOrcaWholeWheat

Standing 4

 

[babalook]

Has anyone with the game tested if Nomad Spin has changed since the beta? It's one of his preset abilities and I'm hoping it isn't as atrocious as the beta version. Any other changes people have noticed?

 

[Circus]

Here's some frame data written out for you guys!!

Enjoy!!

Here's some of the Beta's frame data for comparison:

Spoiler

And here's Kabal's frame data on Nomad Dash Cancels:


Kabal NDC frames: (ob=on block, oh= on hit)
f22 ndc: +1 ob, +4 oh
f2 ndc: +3 ob, +14 oh
f3 ndc: +8 ob, far launch oh
b1 ndc: +1 ob, +9 oh
b12 ndc: 0 ob, +15 oh
f4 ndc: +1 ob, +3 oh
22 ndc: -8 ob, +13 oh
11 ndc: -8 ob, +5 oh

 

[lionheart21]

Because the one thing that Kabal was clearly lacking in was cancel advantage. This guy is gonna be a nightmare to deal with once again.

 

[babalook]

Can someone that has the game test if Nomad Spin's properties have changed at all (does it launch when amplified)? I really wanted to use Kabal but based on these presets he's looking pretty rough. If nothing has changed from the beta his NDC variation will barely get 250 dmg with a bar of meter (no standing reset either) and his zoning game will be less than impressive (who made this variation lol).
edit: I think I'd way rather have meterless cancels that leave kabal at -1ish like Jaqui than have to spend an entire bar of defensive meter for +1/0. I don't think people realise how valuable defensive meter is and how bad the risk/reward on NDC is as a result. I mean look at some of Jaqui's OS options from a -1 cancel

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1119940774626504705

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1119951906078711808