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MK11 KABAL Discussion

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
@tylerlansdown

Many players are struggling to practice in tower mode with many things:

- Anti airs, the AI doesn't Jump in puch or kick.
- Flawless Block, if we could set AI to do a move then block we could lab it.
- Reversals
- Corner Combos, we can't get AI in corner without taking thier life down and the combo is cut short.
- Meaties
- OTGs and OKI setups
- Krushing Blow combos
- Just frame punishes
- Poke war, the AI isn't that hard and is easily manipulated.
- Combo timings since we have to restart the matches after two attempts or failed juggles on Krushing Blows.

I wanna say the game is absolutely awesome and we all love what you did with MK11. Don't change a thing yet.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
I don't think practice is even in this build at all. Like they would have to release a patch to add it lol.
Yeah it wouldn't be hard and it would be less that 40mb I'm sure. It's there in game just locked. That way we could give feedback on the practice mode. Literally the most important part of fighters.

I understand that the Stress Test was meant for online only. But the Beta is meant to test the game and I feel practice mode is vital to MK games especially newer ones.
 

Jhonnykiller45

Shirai Ryu
Yeah it wouldn't be hard and it would be less that 40mb I'm sure. It's there in game just locked. That way we could give feedback on the practice mode. Literally the most important part of fighters.

I understand that the Stress Test was meant for online only. But the Beta is meant to test the game and I feel practice mode is vital to MK games especially newer ones.
Sure. But don't hold your breath on that. Pretty unlikely they're adding anything else to the beta.
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
Sucks that the buffed dashing isn't in this build. I actually thought I was fucking up the input somehow, then the match slowed down a bit and I saw how flaccid Kabal's dash was
 

Kiss the Missile

Red Messiah
How do you guys feel about Kabal gaining his Hook Grab as a default move? It seems like one of those moves so powerful that it has no point being gear. I don't see any Kabal player not having it in their kit. I think it'd be better to give him that move to create more variety when choosing his other specials.
 

haDOOM

On your knees!
Does anyone know how to throw the air buzzsaw downward? I have the straight air buzzsaw equipped but there's nothing in the move list that shows how to throw it downward.
 

Peckapowa

Champion
Kabal has the best zoning in the beta.



Everyone needs to watch the series between Sonic Fox (Kabal) and Semiij (Skarlet) below, which currently represents the highest level of play. Kabal's aerial downward buzz saw seems highly effective for zoning and in the neutral.


Look these might be the two best players out there(ill agree with you on that, one of them is atleast) but that doesn't mean semiij is optimally zoning in this matchup (sonic when he plays skarlet as well) nor does it appear he has any initiative to maintain zoning nor has he even equipped the best possible zoning variation with skarlet . You don't need to (to outzone kabal) but it certainly helps to equip blood flow for 2 slots and i'll explain here in a moment why with a few other points.

*For one i''d like to preface that perfect block is a serious threat to zoning because it eliminates chip and pressure to get in, in kabals case it is very threatening to his zoning, as his low blood saw can be jumped anyways or blocked and his high is ducked. His air buzzsaw as well, albeit difficult. Skarlet as well but i think it'd be much more challenging to time and do consistently.

*As well, just because one character outzones another, does not mean that the character is a superior zoner in general. I'll think you'll agree in a few when i show you some footage that if your a baraka player, you'd much rather attempt to get in vs a kabal even just blocking aerial buzzsaws then vs skarlet. However, Kabal does not outzone skarlet.

In regards to the skarlet vs kabal and skarlet being so much better at zoning than kabal it's not even funny using blood flow

1. Blood flow allows you to throw a slower blood ball allowing you to effectively lock down the opponent even though it is duckable. if they attempt to jump it there are serious threats A) a high projectle or sometimes the low can hit them out if timed correct at longer distances b) a well timed tentacle c) another blood ball (fast or normal or slow)

essentially you have to block and inch your way in

2. Due to blood balls locking people down, it creates a frame trap situation with her tentacle move - once the blood ball passes, a tentactle can be thrown to punish them for doing anything. This frame traps, based on the speed of the blood ball at quite close distances and in some cases forces them to block or attempt to perfect block both.

3. IT doesn't stop there, along with blood ball creating frame trap situations - it setups her low projectile (which forces blocks) and her high (which deals with jumps and forces them to duck) - which ALSO frame trap at full to about 4/5 screen.

4. well what about stopping other people from shooting projectiles?? the tentacle does this, it grants knockdown and you will out trade people. Generally once they are knocked out, you can tentacle them again . Once they respect this you begin to steal momentum throwing your own other projectiles.
-Also TENTACLE is so good. If they block it full screen you can predict them advancing and throw it again 3/4 screen. you can even react to their location by changing the input like MMH in INJ 2.

I digress - Essentially she is very freddy like but is more control based and also has a kit of normals which supplement her zoning (f2 tentacle f2 tentacle) that freddy would freaking get erect over but we don't need to get into that.

VS KABAL -

1. same shit as above (#4) as well as one key thing... slow blood balls or blood balls in general can often be used to at the very least to trade with the air saw on the way down and get enough hit advantage to reallocate space.

2. he still suffers like everyonebut scorpion to the same frame trap shit full screen . Jade cannot deal with it unless she's already activated, and i believe she still has to worry about tentacle when glowing anyways. It's hard enough for her to get it out.


Nevertherless i promised some footage, these are not near the level of players(though wavy is a beast and i accidentally left our set) of sonicfox or semiij, i am not either. These players could be doing much more to deal with zoning. But that does not mean everyone who plays this game at a high level is perfect and ill show you some examples.

(I played a solid kabal earlier but i was accidentally streaming on mixer so i dont have it recorded. It would show you how to deal with air buzzsaws with bloodball. Also just blocking them and being a footsie monster character is okay as well. Because skarlets footsies are nuts.)

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/403172747

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/403258223
 
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LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Kabal has the best zoning in the beta
Obviously they are good players but I'd argue noone has had enough time to learn all the matchups or master a characters zoning.
I'd rather wait for full version before deciding whether a character is the best at anything. It seems all the characters are close in terms of strength. They all have strengths but have weaknesses as well.
Remember mkx where many placed characters on bottom tier until that player came out with Tek that showed otherwise.
Just my thoughts
 

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
How do you guys feel about Kabal gaining his Hook Grab as a default move? It seems like one of those moves so powerful that it has no point being gear. I don't see any Kabal player not having it in their kit. I think it'd be better to give him that move to create more variety when choosing his other specials.
Maybe but honestly I think he is solid as is and if he was able to have Hook grab as base then his zoning variations that rightfully lack comboability would be too strong.
But again it's early to say since we are just in a limited build.
I certainly wouldn't be against it if they found a way to balance it but I think kabal is pretty strong when he has at least Hook Grab and Extended Hook.
The rest is personal preference really.

I've seen others use different loadouts but I don't want to drop my midscreen damage with the Hook Grab Amplify by not equipping it.

That NDC being only 1 Slot is awesome and I fell it's pretty strong and definitely a defining tool of kabal.
But that Restand is too good to not have equipped. It's plus 6 on hit and allows anything 12 frames or less for follow so his:
F22(mid)at 12 frames start-up,
F224(mid/oh)[KB on counter] 12f start-up
F4(mid) at 9f start-up,
11(high) 7f start-up,
22(high) 9f start-up,
23(high launcher) 9f start-up,
D1(mid) 7f start-up,
D3(Low) 8f start-up,
D4(Low) 11f start-up
all work to follow up on the Restand but the F22 mid requires a frame perfect input or it can be poked. And his main OH string (B+1,2,D+2) is too slow to get it out.
All in all it's my favorite load out option along with Hook Grab for amplified combos midscreen without having to use up Krusing blows.

I'm still experimenting with Nomad Dash Cancel(Very strong but cost heavy), Low Grab hook(super unsafe), Rolling Buzzsaw(-15 on block), Gas Blast (has almost no range and doesn't apply DoT on hit only a area effect when metered).
 

RiBBz22

TYM's Confirmed Prophet/Time-Traveler
If you are talking about DB2 hook that grabs out of air.

It depends on what you started with it if you can connect with the move before and what move you do after depends on moves used earlier in combo which effects damage.

combo with:

111 xx Nomad Dash(BF3), S4 xx Hook Grab DB2+Amp, 3 xx DB3(Restand) 30% 1bar

B12 xx Nomad Dash(BF3), walk forward, 23 xx Hook Grab(DB2) + Amp, F4 xx DB4/DB3.
29-31% 1bar.

23 xx DB2+Amp, 23 xx BF3, S3/S4 xx DB3 (Restand that is +6 on block) allows you to use moves that are 12 frames and faster. (36-37%) 1bar
I am not sure if there is a point to swap the DB2 move into Kabal's set through gear. I am assuming stuff like that is going to be banned in ranked and competitive play and you will have to roll with the stock variations.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I am not sure if there is a point to swap the DB2 move into Kabal's set through gear. I am assuming stuff like that is going to be banned in ranked and competitive play and you will have to roll with the stock variations.
It's gonna be in ranked
 
Trying a zoning setup with straight air blade, low blade, and dash cancel, but _super_ salty that having straight air blade actually removes his downward air blade. This feels pretty unnecessary.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
https://www.gameinformer.com/interview/2019/01/17/ed-boon-talks-mortal-kombat-11s-variations-changes-and-roster

Do you want the competitive crowd to tinker around and create their own variations?

I don’t think it really works for the competitive thing, because the whole point is to be getting better and better. So you don’t want someone who’s like, “Oh, I’ve been working on building my character for six months,” and the guy who just bought the game yesterday, putting them together is not "regulation," so to speak. But online, when you’re playing people in our matchups, we take that into account. We do want players to say, “Hey, my Scorpion’s a little bit better now, let me go online and use them and continue level up.”
 

vcuzzo23

Looking for the MAWWPP Bucket!
I agree with your sentiment! The way you worded your reply before I thought you were saying gear loadouts were gonna be aloud in ranked. Good find. I been wanting to know what they were gonna do with tourney play. This seems like all the proof in the pudding we need that'll be using set variants again!
 

babalook

Apprentice
I really hope the tournament standard variations aren't the preset ones shown in the beta or else kabal's going to be awful.