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MK Armageddon Tier List Discussion Thread (updated Feb-06)

Why exactly are people like Tanya and Sub Zero, characters that were ranked so low on MKD are now top tier? Is it because of their air combos or because they dont have the fighting style that made them bad in Deception? If that were the case, couldnt of you just stayed in Yue Chaun and Shotokan in Deception and they would have been top tier?
 

Konqrr

MK11 Kabal = MK9 Kitana
Shotokan 3 is now a mid move, if Versatile was here he'd explain it, but I'll let m2dave do it.

Tanya air fireball and no damage protection from her weapon combo b211 etc. Easy 50%
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Sub's 3 (even though horribly un-safe off-line) is a very good move online.It leads to a free throw and it hits mid.You can also do 3,2 (mid,high) and it will also give a free throw.You can also do 1,1,3, (high,high,mid) for punishing other moves since it starts out with a quick jab.This also gives a free throw leading to about 33% of damage.As you can see,Sub has easy and consistent pokes that lead into constant free throws and very nice damage.In addition,Sub is also a nice turtler.The Ice Clone is a good move but it has its delay now in MK:A;meaning that you can't do another Clone any more immediately after the initial one disappears.This does hurt his turtling and running game.

I won't go into any more details.He's just a solid and versatile character.He does lack aerial cancels,though,that keeps his damage under 40% accordingly.And off-line,he's very un-safe.

Tanya has first stance d+4.The best low in the entire game.It goes under high attacks because of its crouching animation and sets up 50/50 mix ups thereafter because it gives tremendous advantage on hit.Her aerial fireball gives free throws or 50/50 mix ups up close,and because Tanya is in the air doing it,it will naturally punish low attacks and other moves that have poor ranges as they will simply miss.She also has aerial cancels for huge combos as well as the non-damage reduction in her weapon stance combos as Konqrr mentioned in his post.

As for her weaknesses,she lacks decent mid attacks.Everything she has is usually punishable or parriable inbetween her dial-a-combos.She also doesn't track that well aside from d+4 and her throw.Her aerial fireball,although being very good as I said,puts Tanya at a disadvantage when her opponent blocks it up close or side steps it.Off-line characters can even catch her in the air (aa) while she's landing and then punish her which increases their damage potential.Thus,the aerial fireball is only good against some characters,such as Dairou.

Frost is just bad.Very poor character.She doesn't have one single mid move as unbelievable as it may sound.She does have 2,2 (high,mid),though,but that's it.All you have to do against her is watch out for the unblockable Ice Puddle.Everything else she does is duckable and punishable.In other words,when she misses her attacks (which are all high attacks),get up from the crouching position immediately and punish her (either be throwing her,uppercuting her,etc.).
 
TY for the explanation, but WHAT IS A 50/50 MIX UP!?!?!?!?! :? Other than that, ive never heard of the mid, high, low attacks. I thought it was just high and low.... sorry for asking some much ?'s.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
There are:

high attacks (which can be blocked by standing,or ducked,in which case the high attack will miss)

mid attacks (which can only be blocked by standing;if you duck and block,the mid attack cannot be blocked)

low attacks (which can only be blocked low;if you stand and block,the low attack will connect)

special mid (which can be blocked by blocking low (i.e. duck and block) as well as blocked standing;this is only a property given to most special moves in MK)

50/50 mix up is the most basic mix up.If your opponent is at a huge disadvantage (frame-wise so that he or she can never interrupt your in-coming mix ups) you can just walk up to him or her and mix it up between a throw (unblockable high which can be ducked) and a mid attack (which can be blocked standing but NOT when you duck) thus creating a 50/50 mix up.In other words,you have a 50% chance of guessing correctly;it will be either that you stand and block to avoid the mid attack (which leaves you vulnerable for a throw) or that duck and block low (which leaves you vulnerable for the mid attack).

The same is valid for a mid attack/low mix up as well.

50/50 mix ups are present in MK:D and are easily done because of the lack of a wake up game and the fact that some moves give too much advantage when they hit.
 
Re: MK Armageddon Tier List Discussion Thread

Konqrr said:
God Tier
Blaze
Moloch
Onaga

Then, in no particular order:
Top Tier
Sub-Zero
Quan Chi
Sareena
Scorpion
Mavado
Noob
Tanya

Top of the Mid Tier
Shinnok
Kung Lao

So bad they shouldn't even be taken seriously
Frost
Sindel
Kai

Everyone else is in the middle. Feel free to discuss.


I really feel bad for Kai, Moi Fah to me is the shittiest fighting style in the game. That style does not go well by itself or with a slow moving weapon. I tried playing with him, and not only is the style weak as hell but he doesn't have any priority in his attacks. most of them are high attacks, and that just sucks. I enjoyed using Kai in MK4 than this game...why did they do that to him. He wasn't the best character in MK4 but damn, he truly sucks and I feel they did him wrong.
 

Cla

Noob
I'm just curious. Did they actually fix/change anything in the Wii version or are the tiers exactly the same?
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Cyrax should be near the bottom also, seriously...nobody uses him online, in fact you'll find more players use Kai.

And IMO, Frost is better then Cyrax any day of the week. Just play Malone online, he uses her VERY well. Cyrax is only good if the lag gives the Cyrax player an edge making his moves safer then already, otherwise he's crap...


BTW, to the dude that asked about the wii verison, yes it improved a bit with some things such as the wake up addition on top of the current one in MKA on PS2 and Xbox versions.

In the wii version you can stay on the ground at will, whenever you want to say...avoid projectiles or high attacks. Very useful, Khameleon is in the wii version as well as Chameleon, she's pretty good. And you can use the wii controls( or go back to typical game pad controls via classic pad or GC pad) your choice, the wii remote is interesting and fun. 8)
 
I would practically worship anyone who would get online and show me how the fuck you play this game competetively. I find it funny.. 2D MKs the CPU is impossible, and competition is easier, whereas the 3D MKs I never even learned competetive, and can rape the CPU.. Most of the time.
 
megalomaniacvon said:
I would practically worship anyone who would get online and show me how the fuck you play this game competetively. I find it funny.. 2D MKs the CPU is impossible, and competition is easier, whereas the 3D MKs I never even learned competetive, and can rape the CPU.. Most of the time.
It was arcade style back with AI. They could always do things you couldn't do. Kabal's spin three times in a row. The 3D AI is better since it's not like the arcade. I could probably flawless the CPU on the hardest difficulty twice.... if I'm lucky. But I could do it.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
megalomaniacvon said:
I would practically worship anyone who would get online and show me how the fuck you play this game competetively. I find it funny.. 2D MKs the CPU is impossible, and competition is easier, whereas the 3D MKs I never even learned competetive, and can rape the CPU.. Most of the time.
You have to play players like me in the newer ones :wink:
 

RoGE

Noob
Johnny Cage and sheeva should be pretty high on that tier list.
Johnny because of his insane combos, and sheeva because of her insane combo's and safe moves. Hso Hao aint that bad either.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Hsu Hao is pretty good, but I think he's in the mids personally, not that high.

Sheeva is deadly, but she's far from the upper top of the tier list IMO.

Cage is pretty good also, but I think he's more of an upper mid personally if i were to rank him.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
Nobody uses the infinites though, therefore just because of the easy infinites doesn't make them god tier.

Scorpion, noob, Sareena, Dairou are better.

Reason why that is is because this isn't UMK3 where it's insanely hard to pull off those infinites, in MKD and MKA the infinites in the corner like Quans and Haviks are easy as pie to do....Jade's teleport, throw, teleport, throw infinite is also easy as hell to do but that doesn't make her top tier. In fact she's worse in MKA then she was in MKD, MKD she was a badass. She's still a good character to use if you like Jade in MKA, however not nearly as powerful or good as she was in MKD.
 

RoGE

Noob
It does not matter if no one uses infinites or not, we are talking full high level play with all characters, in that case, all the characters with easy infinites need to do is do it once and they win.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
No, you see you're talking in terms of "brokenness" I'm talking in terms of high level play. High level players online like myself will tell you that KAK, MOB, Goro, Kintaro and picking characters just to try to do infinites are not legit, nor allowed.

AC, 33 are allowed but there's a limit with them.

You have to realize that online MKA, that's not considered legit by picking jade and doing her infinite...that's scrub tactics that will earn you flaming and proves you have no skill.

Now, Quan is a good character but not because of his corner infinite, he's a very good overall character.


High level players=don't do easy infinites for easy wins

Scrub players=do that.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Iori9 said:
It does not matter if no one uses infinites or not, we are talking full high level play with all characters, in that case, all the characters with easy infinites need to do is do it once and they win.
Usually infinite combos in fighting games are perfectly allowed as long as they:

1. are tough to execute

2. require advanced set ups in order for you to execute them

MK: D's and MK:A's infinite combos are extremely easy to do. I could teach my brother how to do them in 30 minutes but I could not teach him how to do infinite combos (or 80%+ combos) in games like MvC 2, Tekken 5, etc. It would take some effort to learn them.

In games like MK: D and MK:A, you can infinite combo from unbreakable throws and any juggle starters, and that is precisely why they are banned. Otherwise, high level gameplay would consist of who juggles whom first or who throws whom first.

Infinite combos are not necessarily looked down upon in every fighting game. In fact, in some fighting games it is considered "skill" if you land an infinite combo, not so in MK, though, because every idiot can do them and that is why they're banned.
 

RoGE

Noob
m2dave said:
Iori9 said:
It does not matter if no one uses infinites or not, we are talking full high level play with all characters, in that case, all the characters with easy infinites need to do is do it once and they win.
Usually infinite combos in fighting games are perfectly allowed as long as they:

1. are tough to execute

2. require advanced set ups in order for you to execute them

MK: D's and MK:A's infinite combos are extremely easy to do. I could teach my brother how to do them in 30 minutes but I could not teach him how to do infinite combos (or 80%+ combos) in games like MvC 2, Tekken 5, etc. It would take some effort to learn them.

In games like MK: D and MK:A, you can infinite combo from unbreakable throws and any juggle starters, and that is precisely why they are banned. Otherwise, high level gameplay would consist of who juggles whom first or who throws whom first.

Infinite combos are not necessarily looked down upon in every fighting game. In fact, in some fighting games it is considered "skill" if you land an infinite combo, not so in MK, though, because every idiot can do them and that is why they're banned.
Yeah, I could not say it any better.

Thats the way Ultimate Mortal Kombat 3 (UMK3) is, its pretty much one of the few non-broken MK games.
 

MKF30

Fujin and Ermac for MK 11
m2dave said:
Iori9 said:
It does not matter if no one uses infinites or not, we are talking full high level play with all characters, in that case, all the characters with easy infinites need to do is do it once and they win.
Usually infinite combos in fighting games are perfectly allowed as long as they:

1. are tough to execute

2. require advanced set ups in order for you to execute them

MK: D's and MK:A's infinite combos are extremely easy to do. I could teach my brother how to do them in 30 minutes but I could not teach him how to do infinite combos (or 80%+ combos) in games like MvC 2, Tekken 5, etc. It would take some effort to learn them.

In games like MK: D and MK:A, you can infinite combo from unbreakable throws and any juggle starters, and that is precisely why they are banned. Otherwise, high level gameplay would consist of who juggles whom first or who throws whom first.

Infinite combos are not necessarily looked down upon in every fighting game. In fact, in some fighting games it is considered "skill" if you land an infinite combo, not so in MK, though, because every idiot can do them and that is why they're banned.
It's just the 3D MK's that the infinites are pretty easy, the MK 2 and UMK3 ones are very difficult to do, that's why in those games they're allowed if someone can pull off the reptile UMK3 infinite or Ermac 100% or the Cyrax one etc, that's serious skill because timing is crucial.
 

RoGE

Noob
Sort of edited the tier list.


Higher God Tier
1. KAK
2. Moloch
3. Blaze
4. Onaga

Lower God-Tier, if used the broken way, (can be used in a "nice" way)

1. Kenshi - Easiest infinite combo in the game(PS2/xbox ver only)
2. Hotaru -throw infinite (PS2/xbox ver only)
3. Havik -throw infinite (PS2/xbox ver only)
4. Jade -throw infinite (PS2/xbox ver only)
5. Sub-Zero -Impale glitch works on freeze online (online only)

Top:

1. Sareena
2. Scorpion
3. Noob
4. Drahmin
5. Quan Chi
6. Kung Lao
7. Dairou -tombstone
8.Tanya
9.Raiden
10-11. Mavado & Kabal - played the same way almost, stay in hookswords
12. Shinnok
13. Chameleon

Mid:
everyone else besides bottom

bottom:
1. Frost
2. Kai
 

Azuro

Noob
*facepalm*

I hope you're joking with the God tier regs...

And Noob, Quan & Kung > Dairou? I don't think so.
 

Azuro

Noob
Here's what the list would probably look like now, though it doesn't necessarily matter, since the tiers aren't even being discussed anymore. Not to mention, the game is played online, where lag can make the list vary, and not offline, where everything is consistent.


Above God Tier (Banned):
KAK

God Tier (Banned as well):
Blaze
Moloch
Onaga

Top Tier (Most viable characters):
Sareena
Drahmin
Scorpion
Dairou
Sub Zero
Kenshi
Noob
Kung Lao
Tanya
Quan Chi
Mavado
Kabal

High Tier (Competitively viable, but not as much as Top Tier):
Bo Rai Cho
Raiden
Jade
Ashrah
Jarek
Smoke
Shinnok
Chameleon
Sonya
Mileena
Hotaru
Jax
Reptile

Mid Tier (Not quite viable, but can win):
Kira
Nightwolf
Stryker
Johnny Cage
Kintaro
Darrius
Kitana
Hsu Hao
Li Mei
Sektor
Havik
Daegon
Liu Kang
Baraka
Sheeva
Goro
Nitara
Rain

Low Tier (Not reliable characters, but can still win):
Taven
Cyrax
Kobra
Fujin
Ermac
Shao Kahn
Kano
Reiko
Meat

Bottom Tier (Are completely outclassed by anything other than themselves or bottom of low tier):
Motaro
Frost
Shang Tsung
Shujinko
Kai

That is the CLOSEST you probably can get to a tier list in this game, and is only due to the fact that the game is only played online. It takes into account basic, most common lag, nothing else. Offline, this list would be quite a deal different.