What's new

MK Armageddon Tier List Discussion Thread (updated Feb-06)

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
I'll fix the color. Mind if I copy this to the other thread?
Put it wherever you want it and as long as B-W1zZ is ok w/ it, I'd say you're welcome to anything you find useful in my links as well.

I tend to makes notes when people contributed to stuff, so the credits are always important finishing touches IMO, but we all know who(s) found most of the stuff in MKA, so I'm indifferent to it, but it might be polite to do and proper.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I could be blind but I cannot see Havik on the tier list? How good is he?
Havik is like mid tierish. TSD jabs lead to infinite, and his MOR 3 has awesome range, but he's extremely unsafe as a character otherwise. Though he does have solid durability with his neck twist giving him health regen. He moves out of low tier due to his infinite.

If I had to do a tier list without a matchup chart, it'd likely look like this:

Code:
Top Tier:
Sareena
Dairou
Drahmin
Jade
Blaze
Kenshi
Scorpion
Tanya
Sub-Zero
Hotaru
Kabal
Bo Rai Cho
 
Upper Tier:
Moloch
Kung Lao
Quan Chi
Mokap
Raiden
Liu Kang
Li Mei
Smoke
Noob
Ermac
Mavado
Sonya
Mileena
 
Mid Tier:
Jarek
Ashrah
Reptile
Nitara
Chameleon
Shinnok
Fujin
Sektor
Havik
Shujinko
Stryker
Nightwolf
Kitana
 
Lower Tier:
Cyrax
Meat
Kintaro
Kano
Kira
Kobra
Sheeva
Shang Tsung
Johnny Cage
Darrius
Shao Kahn
Daegon
 
Bottom Tier:
Rain
Kai
Sindel
Baraka
Onaga
Motaro
Taven
Reiko
Jax
Hsu Hao
Frost
 

NKZero

Noob
Havik is like mid tierish. TSD jabs lead to infinite, and his MOR 3 has awesome range, but he's extremely unsafe as a character otherwise. Though he does have solid durability with his neck twist giving him health regen. He moves out of low tier due to his infinite.
Sorry man for being noob-ish so from what I understand in this game (I just used to button mash), there are two fighting styles: weapon and hand to hand? So MOR 3 would be standing 3 from one of his stances (fight styles) right?

Also during combos if I'm not mistaken you don't really see special moves within them. A lot of them seem to be multiple air hits and jab juggles. Are there stuff like down pokes that are the equivalent to a D3/D4 in MK9?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Sorry man for being noob-ish so from what I understand in this game (I just used to button mash), there are two fighting styles: weapon and hand to hand? So MOR 3 would be standing 3 from one of his stances (fight styles) right?

Also during combos if I'm not mistaken you don't really see special moves within them. A lot of them seem to be multiple air hits and jab juggles. Are there stuff like down pokes that are the equivalent to a D3/D4 in MK9?
Yeah, MOR = Morning Star, his weapon. His infinite starts with any launcher into TSD f3, throw.

Yeah, not many specials are used in combos. It's usually just jabs and strings that make up juggles. As for down pokes, they exist...they're much more varied in properties, but for the most part d1 = crouch jab, d2 = uppercut, d3 = varies, d4 = varies.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
Havik is like mid tierish. TSD jabs lead to infinite, and his MOR 3 has awesome range, but he's extremely unsafe as a character otherwise. Though he does have solid durability with his neck twist giving him health regen. He moves out of low tier due to his infinite.

If I had to do a tier list without a matchup chart, it'd likely look like this:

Code:
Top Tier:
Sareena
Dairou
Drahmin
Jade
Blaze
Kenshi
Scorpion
Tanya
Sub-Zero
Hotaru
Kabal
Bo Rai Cho
 
Upper Tier:
Moloch
Kung Lao
Quan Chi
Mokap
Raiden
Liu Kang
Li Mei
Smoke
Noob
Ermac
Mavado
Sonya
Mileena
 
Mid Tier:
Jarek
Ashrah
Reptile
Nitara
Chameleon
Shinnok
Fujin
Sektor
Havik
Shujinko
Stryker
Nightwolf
Kitana
 
Lower Tier:
Cyrax
Meat
Kintaro
Kano
Kira
Kobra
Sheeva
Shang Tsung
Johnny Cage
Darrius
Shao Kahn
Daegon
 
Bottom Tier:
Rain
Kai
Sindel
Baraka
Onaga
Motaro
Taven
Reiko
Jax
Hsu Hao
Frost
lol I'm not sure what to say to this....can we discuss some of the changes and why they were made so drastically in comparison to some of the more recent tier lists? Hsu Hao, Sheeva, Kira, Li Mei, Ermac, Kenshi, Cage, Taven all seem out of place by a mile...
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
lol I'm not sure what to say to this....can we discuss some of the changes and why they were made so drastically in comparison to some of the more recent tier lists? Hsu Hao, Sheeva, Kira, Li Mei, Ermac, Kenshi, Cage, Taven all seem out of place by a mile...
I'll elaborate more when I get off work, but Hsu Hao is way too unsafe for this game. His weapon is a less safe version of Kano/Kira, and his only strong point is how hard his pokes hit.
 

AREZ God of War

The Crazy BeastMaster
I'll elaborate more when I get off work, but Hsu Hao is way too unsafe for this game. His weapon is a less safe version of Kano/Kira, and his only strong point is how hard his pokes hit.
Wow...you don't think he's one of the best Zoners in the game?
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Wow...you don't think he's one of the best Zoners in the game?
I may be forgetting stuff with him...I'll probably take a look later on to see what I'm forgetting.

As far as the other characters:


-Kenshi gets around projectiles really well via mind warp, and TKS is one of the best punishers in the game. He also has a ground infinite that is a mixup in itself because he gets it from TAI 3 or TAI 33, and he has TAI 33b1 to check your attempt to punish 33. He also has TAI d4 for a low, which gives him good advantage.

-Kira is probably the 2nd best up close character in the game, but her YUA stance has such awful movement. Her DTH stance's movement isn't any better, and her specials don't aid her in getting close. At least BRC can advance REALLY fast and has a ground infinite. 44u3 is the most bullshit string in the game, though. She could probably move up, though.

-Ermac is pretty good, but lacks solid mids in either stance. He has the best jab in the game, though, and one of the best unbreakable combos in the game. You cannot get launched by Ermac without losing a ton of unbreakable life.

-Cage could probably move up. NUN 1111 is an amazing pressure string, despite being high. And slide uppercut is the same as Motaro's mule kick...wtf invincibility! Unsafe, but invincible and a launcher! Idk why I put him so low tbh, lmao.

-Li Mei is Sareena if her strong points were flipped. KUN 2, KUN b3, and KUN d1 are absolutely ridiculous weapon normals. Very safe, leads to free throws, and have incredible range. LUI is really good stance too, with 1133 as a legit mixup entirely (1133 is a free throw as well), and d4 is a nice low with advantage on hit and is unparriable. Heel kick is a great post-parry and big punish launcher, as it has very slight scaling. It works really well with AC inf, since the scaling is low enough to rack up really good damage, and even kill with AC inf.

-Taven doesn't have much aside from his SoL being so fast and safe. Really unsafe as a whole otherwise. I need to recheck, though, cuz I think I'm missing something, just like with Hsu Hao.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
So, now that I have people's attention again lol...

Even though this is the tier list thread, I'll just use it to talk about the system of MKA. The game is easy to pick up, but is also super fucked up and has things that you may want to know.


1. Safe Attacking Options
To put it bluntly, MKA has a very, very small percentage of safe moves. And even then, some of those safe moves are theoretically unsafe. The game has a total lack of actual blockstun...the only thing preventing you from punishing EVERYTHING is the fact that letting go of block has slight recovery itself. Not a lot, but enough to tack on a couple frames to attacking out of block. Also, some moves totally disable the ability to block for up to a couple seconds. So while they have very fast recovery, they may have this weakness, and thus allowing you to actually be punishable if you don't react a certain way. A major example of this block disable function is Dairou's tombstone drop, which disables blocking for about 3 seconds.

2. How Stages Can Affect Infinites
Yes, this game has tons of infinites. Pretty much every character has a viable infinite, most of which are from air cancels, a bug that lets you continue an air kombat combo without your opponent ever dropping to the ground. The issue with some of these infinites, though, is that they can be disrupted due to the angles at which you travel along the wall. The game has no wallsplat detection, so characters just slide aross the walls during juggles, which can throw off positioning and mess with the infinites themselves at times. This makes the air cancel infinites sometimes drop, and Jade's throw infinite in particular is affected heavily. So stages can sometimes make infinites more troublesome to do.

3. Free Moves After Air Breakers
Similar to MK9, air breakers in MKA drastically alter how the attacking character is knocked down, by causing them to splat much longer. Some characters with unblockable specials, such as Scorpion, Jax, and Jarek, are able to net free damage after a breaker. In Scorpion's case, due to hellfire's properties, this is pretty significant thing to know since that means Scorpion can sometimes net free 50/50s for breaking.

4. Boss-Type Characters
There are two different types of boss characters. Big Bosses and Mini Bosses. Both types have a few defining traits, such as an alternate blocking animation from the rest of the cast (slower recovery), a lower jump arc, and complete lack of air kombat. Big Bosses have a few extras, such as different hit reactions (fewer options launch the opponent, and the ones that do result in very limited juggle capabilities, and a lot of moves instead stagger bosses longer), immunity to projectiles and throws, and reduced damage taken. Goro, Kintaro, Moloch, Onaga, and Blaze all classify as Big Bosses, while Shao Kahn and Motaro are Mini Bosses. Sheeva is an interesting case, as she is a normal character with the boss-type block. From the casual side, these boss properties make bosses very difficult to handle. However, for experienced players, the slower blocking and extra 50/50s makes most of the boss characters really handicapped when dealing with the rest of the cast.

5. Free Throws
Free throws are the result of an oversight that results on certain hit reactions causing the opponent to be thrown during the ending frames of the reaction. Pretty much every character has a free throw setup.

6. Overhead Throw
Some characters have a generic over-the-head toss as a throw. This throw is generally regarded as really bad, as it is slightly slower than normal throws, and has a strange hitbox that causes it to whiff during free throw setups.

7. Weapon Steal
Quan Chi's weapon steal, and Sub-Zero's impale glitch cause the opponent to lose their weapon stance. This causes stance change strings to have different enders. Drahmin, in particular, gains the ability to do a never ending stance change loop.

8. Weapon vs Hand-To-Hand Damage
In weapon stances, characters take more damage.

9. Shujinko Damage
Shujinko is the only normal character to take a different amount of damage than the rest of the cast. Unfortunately, he takes MORE damage than normal. The weapon stance damage increase applies as well.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Something that was never really discussed for this game were the matchups... >.>

It's 5 in the morning, I've got nothing better to do. Not really a big matchup thing, but gives an outline of what characters lose to, and some examples.

-Scorpion basically has no really bad matchups. Sareena and Drahmin are his main hard matchups, but they're not very difficult just because he swings things around so easily.

-Sareena's entire game is neutral control with knives. Jade completely disrupts this, and outranges her, but doesn't really have a safe option. So she doesn't demolish her, but presents herself as her hardest matchup. Other top characters also don't struggle vs her.

-Dairou's main threats are characters who have the easiest times punishing Dairou for using TSD, and those who have air options. Fujin does both of these things, and despite having weaker normals overall, he doesn't care too much when Dairou doesn't really play his game well vs him otherwise. Tanya also fits the mold of the air options character. Jarek is a slightly problematic character, as well. The more I think about Dairou as a character, the more I see he's probably one of the weaker characters in the top tier.

-Drahmin mainly struggles vs Dairou's defensive wall game, and Tanya's ability to be difficult to touch for Drahmin. Li Mei also is a little problematic as her weapon massively outranges him and is pretty safe even vs him.

-Hotaru has solid matchup numbers, and doesn't really lose to any of the top tiers. Sareena is his only truly bad matchup. Not a slaughterfest, though.

-Noob has great punishment, but struggles severely to deal with characters who don't really get punished that easily (Dairou, Sareena, Scorpion, Drahmin, Hotaru, etc). Invisibility is always a powerful tool, though.

-Tanya has the best low in the game (it's only really better than Mileena's due to Mileena's having worse properties overall). She also has an air fireball. And invisibility. She's not safe, but she's very difficult to deal with in the neutral, though. Mainly gets beaten by characters who disrupt her neutral game a lot, like Sareena.

-Kenshi has great damage and mid-screen control, but he doesn't like characters who play keepaway better than him, like Sareena and Dairou. Because Dairou hates lifts, he doesn't do too horribly against him, though.

-Sub-Zero is a great turtle character, and gives characters like Ashrah, Bo Rai Cho, Drahmin, and Kira fits. He does play vs Sareena well, too, but he hates Dairou's TSD a lot.

-Jade loves playing vs projectile characters, but gets pretty banged up when characters don't care about that and can punish her range well.

-Kabal punishes things extremely well due to dash, and nomad touch gives him solid mid-screen control. His hookswords aren't as good as Mavado's, but he generally creates damage opportunities easily in comparison. Not too many characters give him issues, but he doesn't give too many characters issues, either. More along the lines of that character that just does fine vs everyone and doesn't have defining good/bad matchups.

-Raiden's weapon has absurd range, and pokes well, giving him a great mid-range game. Teleport disrupts zoning and footsies pretty well, and his superman is a solid punisher. Another character who doesn't demolish, but doesn't get demolished, however.

-Bo Rai Cho is essentially Johnny Cage in MK9. His offense is stupid good and you don't want to be near him whatsoever. Great oki from his throw, puke puddle is a great way to break guards, and he moves forward super fast. He doesn't really like turtles, though. Sonya gives him hell, as do Smoke and Sub.

-Smoke is as turtly as Sub, and hates the same things Sub does, oddly enough. He's better at anti-zoning, though, altogether.

Will add on some other time.
 
Last edited:

Versa

Noob
Memories reading through this thread. Once Check found that glitch that freezed the character in mid air, 3S came out on PC and I retired lol.

MKA was so broken and silly it made MKD look like Virtua Fighter 5.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
Reviving cuz I feel like it. Plus Forever King and FKjr wanna play me in this lol.

I'm actually finding new shit lmao.
 
Reviving cuz I feel like it. Plus Forever King and FKjr wanna play me in this lol.

I'm actually finding new shit lmao.
You're gonna need a CRT to play MKA. I can confirm having gone back to MKDA-MKA on my ASUS monitor that the game doesn't run properly.

There are hitbox issues due to the game not filling the entire screen. All the black space around the screen causes the hit/hurtboxes to become extremely small/non existent. Virtually nothing works. I wouldn't even be able to re-record my MKA stuff because of the hitbox issues on a monitor. Even a simple combo like Scorpions: u2, pc~b1, pc~223, pc~b1, cs~cs, pc~221 won't work on a monitor with all that black space around it. You're stuck playing the game at a very low level.

Just a heads up, since i saw the picture you posted on twitter had all black space around the screen too (MKA). If you can a find way to fill out the screen, you might be good to go. Still feel like CRT is the way to go for gamespeed purposes. MKDA's gamespeed isn't really affected by the monitor. I'd suggest that game.

Good luck anyway. And good shit for keeping it alive.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
You're gonna need a CRT to play MKA. I can confirm having gone back to MKDA-MKA on my ASUS monitor that the game doesn't run properly.

There are hitbox issues due to the game not filling the entire screen. All the black space around the screen causes the hit/hurtboxes to become extremely small/non existent. Virtually nothing works. I wouldn't even be able to re-record my MKA stuff because of the hitbox issues on a monitor. Even a simple combo like Scorpions: u2, pc~b1, pc~223, pc~b1, cs~cs, pc~221 won't work on a monitor with all that black space around it. You're stuck playing the game at a very low level.

Just a heads up, since i saw the picture you posted on twitter had all black space around the screen too (MKA). If you can a find way to fill out the screen, you might be good to go. Still feel like CRT is the way to go for gamespeed purposes. MKDA's gamespeed isn't really affected by the monitor. I'd suggest that game.

Good luck anyway. And good shit for keeping it alive.
It was super weird cuz some shit just didn't work lol, but I thought it was just random shit like me losing the timing.