MK Armageddon Tier List Discussion Thread (updated Feb-06)

[Konqrr]

Thanks to m2dave for the tier list.

1. Sareena - Hardly any mismatches at all. Knives are too good at pressuring, aerial cancels are available. Complete character.

2. Scorpion - He's safe online. Weapon f+1 is a little less safe, though, and lacks aerial cancels but he doesn't really need them as he can do 50%+ damage without them.

3. Dairou - I'm not putting him at #2 until I can beat Check's Scorpion consistantly on a 3-4 star connection. Dairou is still Dairou, though, turtle and run all day. Lots of safe moves are available as well as nice aerial cancels for 40%+ damage.

4. Drahmin - 1,1,CS is an incredible safe dial-a-combo that launches. 1,1 also gives a free throw, which launches, weapon d+1 is a nice low poke that gives huge advantage and is not parriable. He lacks aerial cancels, though, which is the reason he is not a top 3 character.

5. Sub-Zero - Great character overall, hardly any mismatches, has a lot of moves that lead to free throws for decent damage. However, he lacks aerial cancels, which keeps his damage mostly under 40%.

6. Tanya - Air-fireball gives a free throw or 50/50 mixups when it connects. First stance d+4 is the best low in the game, easy 50/50 mixups afterwards. She lacks a somewhat safe mid attack/popup, but she has aerial cancels. I'm not sure how she does against Scorpion and Sareena but she gives Dairou a lot of trouble.

7. Kung Lao - Very, very solid character. Weapon b+3/b+2 mixup after the 1,1,f+3 plant if you can move in fast enough. He lacks a safe mid popup, weapon b+2 and first stance f+1 aren't really safe at all unless the connection is mediocre. Kung Lao also has aerial cancels available into ridiculous damage potential.

8. Noob - He's very good but I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again: 2,4 is a shitty move on block,the only reason it's fairly safe is because of the lag. First stance d+4 is a nice advantageous low poke, his Invisibility move combined with lots of turtling can be a bitch to deal with. Noob has the damage, too, but doesn't really have safe mid popups unless the connection is shit.

9. Kenshi - Nice turtling character. Lots of damage available due to aerial cancels. Weapon 2 is fairly safe even offline depending on distance. You have to turtle with him a lot to use him effectively.

10. Quan Chi - He has the easiest 50/50 mixups in the game. The Rising Kick goes under high attacks, most of the projectiles, and even some mid attacks, and is fairly safe. The Magnetic Force can easily turn the outcome of the match and give Quan Chi the advantage against characters who heavily rely on their weapon stances, however, give me a 3-4 star connection and he's so limited. Weapon d+1,3...the second hit is blockable even if the first one hits and punishable by jabs. The last hit of weapon 1,1,4 is parriable. Rising Star is punishable by jabs, plus, he must be the slowest character in the game (since in both of his stances he moves very slowly), which means he struggles immensly against turtlers. His distance game sucks, his projectile is very slow and recovers very slowly but it does hit mid I think.

The below characters are top tiers online ONLY due them being a lot safer online (compared to offline where they are less safe)

11. Raiden - He's a very decent character, lots of pokes available, and he even has aerial cancels in his arsenal. Weapon d+1 is a great low poke that gives Raiden the advantage upon hit. Teleport is still very good, first stance f+1, and 1,2,CS are annoyingly good online.

12-13. Mavado & Kabal - Both of them are almost played exactly the same way. Weapon u+2/4 mixup. Mavado has aerial cancels that probably lead into the best damage available in the game but lacks a safe mid popup even online to set up the damage. On the contrary, Kabal can set up his damage due to the Flash (which causes huge problems for most characters since the Flash punishes almost everything), but he lacks aerial cancels and damage unlike Mavado. They're only top tier online, though, I'd really put Kabal over Mavado due to the Flash, but offline, both u+2 and 4 in weapon stance are horribly punishable on block. u+2 gives most characters a free throw at the worst.

14. Shinnok - Decent character but he's so un-safe even online. He has aerial cancels, nice combos even without them, d+3 in weapon stance is a deadly low move, etc.

This is not an official tier list. It's very hard to judge who's above who espeically in the top 10 (besides Sareena and Scorpion,and Dairou). For example, Tanya may not do as well against Scorpion, but Drahmin does better than her. However, Tanya does a lot better than Drahmin against Dairou. It's like a long chain of certain match ups that makes you question where certain characters really do stand in the tier list. Combine that with the inconsistent connections and lag online, and it's really impossible to jump to conclusions. However, regardless of that, I think that all of the aforementioned characters are top tiers.
______________________________________________

At the top of the list are the three "God-Tier" characters who are above and beyond all of the regular characters due to their Boss abilities.

Blaze
Moloch
Onaga
______________________________________________

The following are the characters that are so bad they shouldn't even be taken seriously:

Frost
Kai
______________________________________________

There should probably be a respective offline and online tier list.Due to the aerial cancels (as seen in Check's video) most of the characters offline can get easy 50% of damage;some even get easy 70%-80% of damage.It's just broken and insane.

For example,take Mavado...

Wep. b+2, 1,1,4, *hold up* 1,1,2, 1,1,3,CS,(4), *land*, *hold up*, 1,1,2, 1,1,3,CS,(4), *land*, 1,1,4, b,f+4 = 75%-80%

shit...this game has so many infinite combos thanks to AC's that can be linked into each other over and over again.

But Blaze and Moloch are definitely the best.Blaze can out-turtle anyone and control the space and the game.Onaga isn't even that good.Most of his moves are shitty and very unsafe on block (even online).I'm pretty sure that a normal character that can 50/50 him somewhat safely can also beat him easily.Also,that flame is low-blockable and very,very punishable.

On Jax -
I don't see him beating any top tier. Not even close. You take huge risks rushing with weapon 1,1. It's not even safe on block. It's sidesteppable. It's parriable (the second hit is). You use Jax on Scorpion and rush with 1,1, you'll be eating f+1 all day. You use him on Drahmin and rush, you eat 1,1,CS all day. You use him on Sareena and rush, you eat f,f+1 all day. You use him on Sub-Zero and rush, you eat 3 and wep, b+2 all day, etc.

His Ground Pound is jumpable on reaction and his Machine Gun (very punishable on block up close) can be ducked under...so much for the "keep away" game.

He doesn't have any aerial cancels.He might have the "3,3" glitch online, though. But how are you going to launch with Jax anyway? Even if you do, the damage will be limited compared to others.

 

[rzpmkkteam]

i have to say something in here, but i think chamaleon must be in the tier as one of the first in the list, cus he´s very easy way to make kombos, and the launch kombos, the unblockeable move (d,u+triangle, in the ps2 version xD), you could make a 82% with this character so easy:S

 

[XL]

I think Stryker should atleast be top of the middle tier. A good Stryker can beat the boss characters pretty easily because of all his ranged attacks and gun attacks.

 

[abc ur dead0]

Sektor and Cyrax are pretty good too.

 

[M2Dave]

Damn,this game sure has died very quickly.The online competition is a joke - you have nothing but broken KAK users who even have the audacity to pull and quit.

Anyway,as for the tier list,I think you can pretty much forget about creating an online tier list since the amount of stuff you can do online is very limited and inconsistant thanks to the lag.And seriously,how many people play MK:A competitively off-line,and of those,how many people have the ability to come up with a reasonable tier list?Probably very,very few,if any.

But let's take a look at what would be important in determining an off-line tier list (at least in my view):

Move safety - I know it feels good spamming those safe mid-pop ups online but off-line every move has a fixed recovery.However,remember that in MK:A (also probably in MK and MKA) sometimes you can jump or backdash before you can even block.This allows some characters to escape guaranteed damage when other certain characters don't have the moves needed to catch and punish them during these movements.But overall and theoretically speaking,characters with safe moves,especially juggle starters (Dairou's Mi Zong b+4,for example) have a huge advantage to characters whose juggle starters leave them heavily open.This of course all leads to your basic risk/reward ratio,and which characters can spam their moves because of their safety and which can't because of their un-safety.

For example,Noob in his first stance has 2,4, which leads into very good damage (since he also has AC's).However, 2,4, isn't nowhere near as safe as it is online.It's punishable by almost everyone off-line with a medium-ranged juggle starter.How would this affect his rank on an off-line tier list?

Aerial Cancels - MK:A's finest glitch that works inconsistantly online depending on your and your opponent's connection.During off-line game play AC's work 100% of the time and are the easiest way to do very high damage.Every character who has some type of AC can easily do at least 45%-50% of damage.

However,some characters like Sub-Zero don't have any AC's.He might be limited from his high risk juggle starter to only 35%-40% of damage.Does that mean that he does,in fact,rank lower/a lot lower?

etc.

But this is all theoretical bull shit that raises nothing but questions.So,until people start playing this off-line,which is probably highly unlikely,I don't think this game will ever have a true and consistant tier list.

Just my opinion.

 

[Shock]

I should break Shredder out and record some, for a final surveying and slaughtering of MKA.

 

[Sullen]

Damn,this game sure has died very quickly.The online competition is a joke - you have nothing but broken KAK users who even have the audacity to pull and quit.

You can say that again. I played Deadly Alliance for over a year, Deception for about 10 months, and Armageddon for a month or so. Don't forget about all the online players who refuse to play with anyone but Blaze/Moloch.

But in regards to the tier list, I concur with Mavado, definitely one of the best. Hookswords for the win.

 

[RicanSnipa]

Man, I wanna play MKA so bad. I liked MKDA cause of the weapons they introduced in it. I loved using Scorpion's sword ^_^

 

[TheRagingStorm]

I think MK: Deception was, to me, the best out of the other 3D MK games. Two fatalities, more minigames,and I say everyone was just about fair, but the character I've seen abused online in Deception was Shujinko, the most that I've seen at least, I'm not saying he's more abused than Blaze, but that's the way I see it...but then again I just play all MK games just for the hell of it.

However, Sareena is my favorite, she throws projectiles like mad!

 

[M2Dave]

Updated tier list below.It's a mixture of an off-line and online tier list as character's both online and off-line gameplay is taken into consideration:

1. Sareena (hardly any mismatches at all,knives are too good at pressuring,aerial cancels are available,complete character)

2. Scorpion (he's also safe online,wep. f+1 is a little less safe,though,lacks aerial cancels but he doesn't really need them as he can do 50%+ of damage without them)

3. Dairou (I'm not putting him at No. 2 until I can beat Check's Scorpion consistantly on a 3-4 star connection,Dairou is still Dairou,though,turtle and run all day,lots of safe moves are available as well as nice aerial cancels for 40%+ damage)

4. Drahmin (1,1,CS is an incredible safe dial-a-combo that launches, 1,1 also gives a free throw,which launches,wep. d+1 is a nice low poke that gves huge advantage and is un-parriable,he lacks aerial cancels,though,which is probably the reason he is not a top 3 character)

5. Sub-Zero (great character overall,hardly any mismatches,has a lot of moves that lead into free throws for decent damage,however,he lacks aerial cancels,which keeps his damage mostly under 40%)

6. Tanya (air-fireball gives a free throw or 50/50 mix ups when it connects,first stance d+4 is the best low in the game in my opinion,easy 50/50 mix ups afterwards,she lacks a somewhat safe mid pop up/mid move but she has aerial cancels,I'm not sure how she does against Scorpion and Sareena but she gives Dairou a lot of trouble)

7. Kung Lao (very,very solid character,wep. b+3/b+2 mix up after the 1,1,f+3 plant if you can move in fast enough,but he lacks a safe mid pop up,wep. b+2 and first stance f+1 aren't really safe at all unless the connection is mediocre,Kung Lao also has aerial cancels available into ridiculous damage potential)

8. Noob (he's very good but I've said it 100 times and I'll say it again: 2,4 is a shitty move on block,the only reason it's fairly safe is because of the lag,d+4 is a nice advantageous low poke,his invisibility move combined with lots of turtling can be a bitch to deal with,Noob has the damage,too,but doesn't really have safe mid pop ups unless the connection is shit)

9. Kenshi (nice turtling character,lots of damage available due to aerial cancels,wep. 2 is fairly safe even off-line depending on distance,you have to turtle with him a lot to use him effectively)

10. Quan Chi (easiest 50/50 mix ups in the game,the Rising Kick goes under high attacks,most of the projectiles,and even some mid attacks,and is fairly safe,the Magnetic Force can easily turn the outcome of the match and give Quan Chi the advantage against characters who heavily rely on their weapon stances,however,give me a 3-4 star connection and he's so limited,wep. d+1,3 is blockable on hit (the last hit) and punishable by jabs, wep. 1,1,4 is parriable (the last hit), Rising Star is punishable by jabs,plus,he must be the slowest character in the game (since in both of his stances he moves very slowly),which means he struggles immensly against turtlers,especially when Quan Chi's opponent has more health and just turtles and lets the clock run out,also,his distances game sucks,his projectile is very slow and recovers very slowly but it does hit mid I think)

The below characters are top tiers online ONLY due them being a lot safer online (compared to off-line where they are less safe)

11. Raiden (he's a very decent character,lots of pokes available,and he even has aerial cancels in his arsenal,wep. d+1 is a great low poke that gives Raiden the advantage upon hit,Teleport is still very good,first stance f+1, and 1,2,CS are annoyingly good online)

12. Mavado and Kabal (both of them are almost played exactly the same way. wep. u+2/4 mix up,Mavado has aerial cancels that probably lead into the best damage available in the game but lacks a safe mid pop up even online to set up the damage,on the contrary,Kabal can set up his damage due to the Flash (which causes huge problems for most characters since the Flash punishes almost everything) but he lacks aerial cancels and damage unlike Mavado,they're only top tier online,though,I'd really put Kabal over Mavado due to the Flash,but off-line,both u+2 and 4 in weapon stance are horribly punishable on block,u+2 gives most characters a free throw at the worst)

13. Shinnok (decent character but he's so un-safe even online,he has aerial cancels,nice combos even without them,d+3 in weapon stance is a deadly low move,etc.)

This is not an official tier list.It's very hard to judge who's above who espeically in the top 10 (besides Sareena and Scorpion,and maybe Dairou).For example,Tanya may not do as well against Scorpion but Drahmin does better than her.However,Tanya does a lot better than Drahmin against Dairou.It's like a long chain of certain match ups that makes you question where certain characters really do stand in the tier list.Combine that with the inconsistent connections and lag online,and it's really impossible to jump to conclusions.However,regardless of that,I think that all of the aforementioned characters are top tiers.

 

[Konqrr]

Thanks for this Dave, good shit.

 

[Kazlaz]

yea well i liked MKA but the fatality bullshit i couldnt handle i lost all respect due to that move

 

[abc ur dead0]

The fatalities Sucked. Hard.

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

Ah crap. I meant to post that message in the MK Deception thread. SOrry

(DreemerNJ: Got rid of the post in this thread)

 

[PauLWaFFleZ]

Re: MK Armageddon Tier List Discussion Thread

God Tier
Blaze
Moloch
Onaga

Then, in no particular order:
Top Tier
Sub-Zero
Quan Chi
Sareena
Scorpion
Mavado
Noob
Tanya

Top of the Mid Tier
Shinnok
Kung Lao

So bad they shouldn't even be taken seriously
Frost
Sindel
Kai

Everyone else is in the middle. Feel free to discuss.

Some of the stuff I agree with. Blaze, Sareena, Sub Zero should be where they are. The bad people like Frost, Sindel, Kai. Yeah they suck. Jax should be in that cat. as well, too slow, no big combos, and no good punishing moves. But I fail to see how Johnny Cage isnt in the top tier list.

 

[Konqrr]

Jax is mid tier, perhaps high mid due to his free throws in Tonfa and ground pound afterwards. Gun knocks people out of the air. High damage, to hell with Muay Thai.

 

[M2Dave]

I don't see him beating any top tier.Not even close.You take huge risks rushing with weapon 1,1.It's not even safe on block.It's side steppable.It's parriable (the second hit is).You use Jax on Scorpion and rush with 1,1, you'll be eating f+1 all day.You use him on Drahmin and rush,you eat 1,1,CS all day.You use him on Sareena and rush,you eat f,f+1 all day.You use him on Sub-Zero and rush,you eat 3 and wep, b+2 all day,etc. etc.

His Ground Pound is jumpable on reaction and his Machine Gun (very punishable on block up close) can be ducked under...so much for the "keep away" game.

He doesn't have any aerial cancels.He might have the "3,3" glitch online,though.But how are you going to launch with Jax anyway?Even if you do,the damage will be limited compared to others.


My post on Jax on MKO.

And Cage has the damage but is very un-safe.Mid-tier.

Konqrr,update the tier list,fool.Sareena,Scorpion,and Dairou are the top 3 in this game easily.

 

[Konqrr]

Good stuff. I'll update it when I have time.

 

[TheRagingStorm]

Does sidestep cancels still work in this game or did they trash it?

 

[Check]

they took out ss cancels in mkd for gc

later

 

[M2Dave]

Versatile's opinion on MKO:

1. Sareena
2. Dairou
3. Scorpion
4. Drahmin
5. Sub-Zero
6. Noob
7. Kung Lao
8. Tanya
9. Kenshi
10. Quan Chi

- Sareena by any account is the best character in the game. Her ability to control a match from long and mid ranges while still being able to hold her own close range makes her virtually unbeatable in a series at a high level. Her damage is mediocre at best(for the time being at least), but it really does not matter since she gets her opportunities for damage A LOT. Her throw wouldn't be good for other characters, but for her it's excellent. It gives her the space she needs to continue her long range dominance.

- Dairou is possibly the hardest of the top tiers to play, but he's also the 2nd most dominant. His long and mid range game is among the best in the game, and his anti air is rivaled by none. Insane damage, safe, decent poking and fantastic specials. He's number 2 for sure.

- Scorpion is the easiest top tier to play, and also among the best. He is above average in every single category. He has great damage that is for the most part unbreakable. He arguably has the best move in the game with f+1 in weapon, which hits mid, is safe, can be PCed and leads to huge damage. His throw is one of the best in the game as well.

- Drahmin is essentially top tier for the same reasons Scorpion is. The difference is that Scorpion deals more damage. Drahmin's range is retarded and is arguably the best punishing character in the game. Match this with extreme safeness and one of the best throws in the game to understand why he's number 4.

- Sub-Zero is a very versatile character. Overall he has the best pokes in the game and can set up his damage very easily. The clone allows him to turtle extremely effectively and maintain his leads. His throw does good damage and he possess many punishing tools(kori b+2 and shoto 3 for example) which lead to moderately big damage. He also does well against those above him with the exception of Dairou, though he fairs far better against him than Drahmin does.

- Noob's only weakness is a lack of safe mids. People who know how to punish properly will not have as hard a time with Noob as those above him. Besides all of that, though, Noob posses great punish range(2,4) and big time damage. His invisibility makes him very difficult to deal with if he has a lead and his projectile is among the best in the game.

- Kung Lao is a risky character, but posseses the tools to get away with it. The wind step is a deadly offensive weapon that creates set ups that normally difficult for others to pull off. Having a low pop up is an huge advantage he has over other characters, and his stuffing ability is practically unrivaled with first stance f+1 and weapon b+2. Throw in the offensive parry(which is a matcher changer), and it's easy to understand why he's top tier.

- To be blunt: Tanya's air fire ball is reason she's top tier. The set ups this move creates for her rivals that of the wind step. She has arguably the best low in the game in d+4(first stance) and it leads to big time set ups on block OR hit. A lack of truly safe mids, and a dependecy of being in the air a lot(which leads to big time punishes at times) are among the reasons why those above her are better.

- Kenshi makes you pay for your mistakes better than anyone arguably. 3,3 leads to big damage, and his mid/long range game is fantastic due to tele fury. Up close he is a stuffing machine with weapon u+2 which leads to huge damage. His throw does not initiate wake up and keeps him fairly close. This leads to more damage if set up properly. When in the right hands(Check or Quik), he's very difficult to beat without the number 1 or 2 characters.

- What caused Quan Chi to dip so low is the discovery from Dave that his d+1,d+3 move can be blocked after the d+1 hits, leaving Quan Chi open for some serious damage. His best move being parry interruptable(1,1,4) also hurts him. You have to play him one step ahead of your opponent to be successful, but if you can manage to that I truly believe he's better than characters right below him such as Mavado,Kabal,Shinnok,Jade,etc.

 

[Check]

sareenas description is a little vague, but i suppose hes talking about the knives

what good are the knives if u can sidestep and block at the same time? its ridiculous to even think the risk reward ratio favors her, sidestep and punish if she throws more than 1 knife, shes dead

same with ff1, block, counter, throw, or if the connection is lagless, walk up and counter ( though i would never know )

her game is up close and it is a mid tier game, she is a mid tier, she becomes high level due to lack of good players who are able to find ways of beating her, or adjusting

she gives top tiers problems, but so do alot of characters, she lacks damage, and if she comes close range you can start to turtle

but as i told dave, mka isnt even playable at a high due to not being able to space with back and block, this was CRUCIAL in mkd, taking this away pretty much leaves you standing there like a noob....

i dont have anything else to add to this tier list, considering its being based off online play, more ridiculousness, no comment, and ill just leave.

espicially when people like versa whos connections are so bad are making these lists, no offense to him, because hes a great player. but its straight up a waste of time to listen to anyone elses opinion but your personal one and how good you are with each character.


also drahmin does not lack damage, he has the same damage as scorpion, 60 percent, which most characters do.

in my opinion only character u should be playing online is scorpion to me he is the best he controls every single move you make and on reaction and on block, he can mix up and beat you with his hellfire alone, without the 60

also hotaru owns sareena for free. :wink:

later

 

[M2Dave]

Check,he lags for you,but not necessarily for me.We almost always have four stars with each other.A four star connection is the only way to really play the game at high level play since it comes somewhat the closest to off-line play.

I just refuse to believe she's mid tier (online).f,f+1 is still rather unpunishable by the majority of the cast online.Off-line I wouldn't know.She's not safe but who is?This game doesn't have frame advantage or severe block stuns.Scorpion's and Dairou's first stances are the closest things you can refer to as "safe".A few characters might have safe low pokes but you throw out anything else and it gets blocked you automatically gamble for losing half your life or more.Thus,I've never really said she was the best (off-line that is questionable for sure) but she's definitely not a mid tier character off-line or not.

However,doesn't Sareena have damage online? Deep jump kick, 3,3's, after f,f+1 and finish with first stance, 2,1,CS? I'm sure she can do 40% at least like most characters.

I definitely agree with you here:

...she becomes high level due to lack of good players who are able to find ways of beating her, or adjusting

That's definitely true.This game lacks true "elite" players who can make a difference and question you where certain characters really belong in the tier list.Besides yourself,Versatile,Dan,and possibly Karate,Quick,and Riu,I think everyone else is simply a "high level player" or just "above average".

 

[stick man]

why shouldnt frost be taken seriosly i cant beat MIK when he is playing as her shes indistructable

and why does sireena have a top tier she cant keep any combos at all in her fighting stance its 1 move stop...

 

[Konqrr]

She doesn't need them...knife to ff1 then 21cs back off and knife again.

Frost is horrible.