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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

Marlow

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My point was he has a launcher that he can cancel out of if he can't hit confirm it.
Yeah but his launcher is still unsafe. Being able to cancel it could potentially make a string safe, but not the launcher itself. If Scorpion lets his teleport rock and he's blocked he can be full combo punished. It's not that different from Raiden being able to teleport after B12 instead of Storm Cell, or doing B12 into a canceled Electric Fly.
 

xRantex

Rante Inferno
Yeah but his launcher is still unsafe. Being able to cancel it could potentially make a string safe, but not the launcher itself. If Scorpion lets his teleport rock and he's blocked he can be full combo punished. It's not that different from Raiden being able to teleport after B12 instead of Storm Cell, or doing B12 into a canceled Electric Fly.
Oh ok gotcha, I forgot about that. Raiden's other options. It's so much Raiden can do b1, grab/ B12 grab if they not expecting it I'm so used to doing that or B12 lighting strike works sometimes.
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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I think you'll find all the tech in this game was figured out 2days after release...
I'm still discovering new things every day. With RoboCop, I just figured out a full-screen Mine into OCP Charge that allows for a 35% 1-bar kombo. After grinding out the Shao matchup, I realized that if you flawless-block his f34(1+3), the grab won't come out, leaving Shao -14, allowing for a full-kombo punish without spending meter on a flawless-block-u2. I'm sure that's known, but I haven't seen it mentioned on TYM, and it was new to me. Is MK11 too simplified? Absolutely. Is there still enough depth to get immense enjoyment out of the game with your friends? Totally.
 

Marlow

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I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I'm still discovering new things every day. With RoboCop, I just figured out a full-screen Mine into OCP Charge that allows for a 35% 1-bar kombo. After grinding out the Shao matchup, I realized that if you flawless-block his f34(1+3), the grab won't come out, leaving Shao -14, allowing for a full-kombo punish without spending meter on a flawless-block-u2. I'm sure that's known, but I haven't seen it mentioned on TYM, and it was new to me. Is MK11 too simplified? Absolutely. Is there still enough depth to get immense enjoyment out of the game with your friends? Totally.
Nah man, MK11 baby game. No tech. Worse game ever
 

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.
I learned kollector in only 1 hour in the lab, followed by 10 win streak on ladder. Watching Destroyer inspired me to pick him up.
 

Marlow

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I learned kollector in only 1 hour in the lab, followed by 10 win streak on ladder. Watching Destroyer inspired me to pick him up.
That's awesome. Personally I kind of like that characters in MK11 are easy to pick up, it means any time you see a character that interests you, you can get started with them without much barrier to entry.

Seems like with MK11 they're trying to lean into Bushnell's Law, easy to learn difficult to master.
 
I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.
Absolutely 100 percent agree with this, good sir. The key thing about MK11, is that mastering the high level in this game isn't really about mastering "optimal" B&B combos and strings as the "end all be all." The real fun challenge at the higher level is mastering the neutral game, whiff punishes, baiting, pokes... playing mind games and capitalizing on enemy habits. That's a key thing I feel MK11 nailed better than MKX.
 
I played some fun matches vs a really solid Rambo player a few weeks ago, I'll try to upload them soon. Also had finally ran some fun mirror Raiden matches with Mandalore awhile back...

To xRantex, you play on PC right? Message me on Discord (name UnshavenRaven) and I can open a cross-play room (I'm on PSN).

Peace!

#RaidenGang #TruthAndLight
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I played some fun matches vs a really solid Rambo player a few weeks ago, I'll try to upload them soon. Also had finally ran some fun mirror Raiden matches with Mandalore awhile back...

To xRantex, you play on PC right? Message me on Discord (name UnshavenRaven) and I can open a cross-play room (I'm on PSN).

Peace!

#RaidenGang #TruthAndLight
No cross play between PC and PS4. Only XBox and PS4
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Here's a treat for you Raiden mains. If you're not familiar with Roethor, he's probably the best Rambo player in the world on PS4 and is a regular on the Arena Sets, playing against basically the entire EU Evo top 8, including this year's winner, Disarted. Dude is a serious sweat.

Well, anyway, I posted an open invitation to our PC KOTH on R1p's Discord and guess who decides to crash the party. He played a Lightning Rod Raiden against my RoboCop and I had no idea what was happening. I didn't even know Rod did some of the shit it was doing lol so I got freed up pretty hard. Enjoy!


Other than not knowing the frame data on the move, I wasn't aware it could knock me out of my strings during my turn, as happened around 1:01:06.
 

Marlow

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Here's a treat for you Raiden mains. If you're not familiar with Roethor, he's probably the best Rambo player in the world on PS4 and is a regular on the Arena Sets, playing against basically the entire EU Evo top 8, including this year's winner, Disarted. Dude is a serious sweat.

Well, anyway, I posted an open invitation to our PC KOTH on R1p's Discord and guess who decides to crash the party. He played a Lightning Rod Raiden against my RoboCop and I had no idea what was happening. I didn't even know Rod did some of the shit it was doing lol so I got freed up pretty hard. Enjoy!


Other than not knowing the frame data on the move, I wasn't aware it could knock me out of my strings during my turn, as happened around 1:01:06.
Sweet. I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning Rod, but I've always thought that pairing it with Teleport made the most sense. Gives Raiden the extra option of teleporting in and punishing the opponent if they try to toss projectiles inside the bubble.


Most of the time if Raiden puts you in the bubble, just duck and chill, and be ready to react to a jump in. Raiden only has one overhead in B2 and it's too stubby to use after a rod setup unless it's the corner or Raiden commits to dashing in first. So usually after Raiden puts you in the bubble his only follow up options are projectile (27f startup), jump in, dash B2(19f startup and death on block), or F4/F2.

On block Rod is -21, so at 1:00:45 you probably could have had a punish. Depending on how much your combo moves you forward you might not be able to get a normal punish due to being interrupted by the bubble, but at the very least you could probably get something like a normal canceled into a projectile or something.
 
Sweet. I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning Rod, but I've always thought that pairing it with Teleport made the most sense. Gives Raiden the extra option of teleporting in and punishing the opponent if they try to toss projectiles inside the bubble.


Most of the time if Raiden puts you in the bubble, just duck and chill, and be ready to react to a jump in. Raiden only has one overhead in B2 and it's too stubby to use after a rod setup unless it's the corner or Raiden commits to dashing in first. So usually after Raiden puts you in the bubble his only follow up options are projectile (27f startup), jump in, dash B2(19f startup and death on block), or F4/F2.

On block Rod is -21, so at 1:00:45 you probably could have had a punish. Depending on how much your combo moves you forward you might not be able to get a normal punish due to being interrupted by the bubble, but at the very least you could probably get something like a normal canceled into a projectile or something.
Yeah, using Rod with Teleport is a fun combo. I play Raiden mirrors often vs a player on PSN that uses that exact combo (Worldwideweesnaw). It's an interesting contrast vs my Jo Push and Rod combo.

To Robocop, yeah the main purpose of the bubble is to trap your movement and get you staggered if you cross it. Use your projectiles while you're in it to counter them. The bubble goes away after 3 seconds, and it costs meter.
 

Marlow

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@UnshavenRaven

I know you like using Rod. What would you think about a kit consisting of Rod, Rolling Thunder, and Super Bolt?

If the opponent is in the bubble and gets hit with a fully charged Super Bolt, it hits them into the bubble and lets Raiden follow up something like B121+3 or D2 for about 24%. Maybe more, I'm not sure what's optimal.

There's no metered launcher, but that's ok because most of the meter would be spent on Rod, Super Bolt, or Projectiles. Amped Super Bolt gives a ton of corner carry and leads to Raiden's hardest knockdown, letting him safely set up another rod or Rolling Thunder.

Game plan would generally revolve around doing something like B12 into amped Rod, or hard knockdown into amped rod, and then following up with either Bolt, Projectile, jump in, F4/F2/, or Rolling Thunder. Rod would restrict movement, while rolling thunder would try and make them wary to approach and add to the pressure when they're in the bubble.

Raiden wouldn't have a launcher, so his punish game would be lacking, and he wouldn't have the space control of Jo Push, or the anti-air of Jo Push, but he'd still have Summon Lightning as a reliable anti-air. Super Bolt also has a KB when fully charged and hits as a counter or punish. I feel like if part of the benefit of the Bubble is to make opponents hesitate, break up their rhythm, and get them to hit buttons at the wrong time then Super Bolt could try and take advantage of that.

Thoughts?
 
@UnshavenRaven

I know you like using Rod. What would you think about a kit consisting of Rod, Rolling Thunder, and Super Bolt?

If the opponent is in the bubble and gets hit with a fully charged Super Bolt, it hits them into the bubble and lets Raiden follow up something like B121+3 or D2 for about 24%. Maybe more, I'm not sure what's optimal.

There's no metered launcher, but that's ok because most of the meter would be spent on Rod, Super Bolt, or Projectiles. Amped Super Bolt gives a ton of corner carry and leads to Raiden's hardest knockdown, letting him safely set up another rod or Rolling Thunder.

Game plan would generally revolve around doing something like B12 into amped Rod, or hard knockdown into amped rod, and then following up with either Bolt, Projectile, jump in, F4/F2/, or Rolling Thunder. Rod would restrict movement, while rolling thunder would try and make them wary to approach and add to the pressure when they're in the bubble.

Raiden wouldn't have a launcher, so his punish game would be lacking, and he wouldn't have the space control of Jo Push, or the anti-air of Jo Push, but he'd still have Summon Lightning as a reliable anti-air. Super Bolt also has a KB when fully charged and hits as a counter or punish. I feel like if part of the benefit of the Bubble is to make opponents hesitate, break up their rhythm, and get them to hit buttons at the wrong time then Super Bolt could try and take advantage of that.

Thoughts?
Lol coincidentally, I actually have this variation already as a secondary for my Raiden matches. Lots of fun to use.
 
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Deleted member 66057

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Just want to give some helpful advice. The Shao Kahn match is a nightmare if you're using a teleport variation. You simply rarely have the meter to to punish f34. I typically switch to Fujin or Kabal and win that way, but if you want to stick it out with Raiden, I'd advise Lighting storm or Staff Slam/ Quick charge.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Just want to give some helpful advice. The Shao Kahn match is a nightmare if you're using a teleport variation. You simply rarely have the meter to to punish f34. I typically switch to Fujin or Kabal and win that way, but if you want to stick it out with Raiden, I'd advise Lighting storm or Staff Slam/ Quick charge.
TW does well against Shao I feel. The entire point is not to let him get close enough to enforce any sort of offence, and you can win the neutral with F11 as his only other button with that sort of range is super slow. Otherwise just walk backwards and try to out-space him as much as possible. You don't necessarily need to switch to another variation (though float is nice if you want to mash against his slower buttons)
 
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Deleted member 66057

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TW does well against Shao I feel. The entire point is not to let him get close enough to enforce any sort of offence, and you can win the neutral with F11 as his only other button with that sort of range is super slow. Otherwise just walk backwards and try to out-space him as much as possible. You don't necessarily need to switch to another variation (though float is nice if you want to mash against his slower buttons)
Who are you playing against where that works lol? Are you on ps4 or Xbox? If you think it’s a battle of f1 vs f2, are you just playing super casually? I ran a set with unjust. Shao Kahn does not challenge f1 with his f2. He challenges with a sweep / dash up d4 which on block creates favorable spacing for him. Shao also punishes any non Mb projectile with charge with input short cuts on. Low level joker players will also try to challenge f1 with their f2. But Joker destroys Raiden at a high level if you react to f1 with a dash in d4 and then establish pressure.

Have you used Raiden against someone like Unjust, Grr, or Hayatei? I run into them pretty frequently and you can’t just throw out f1 the way you can against most other people. Do you really think sticking your f1 out is going to do a thing against some one like videogamezyo’s shao? These players can react to that.

You have any match footage?
 
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Deleted member 66057

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I want to add you do have the right idea about establishing good spacing and running away. Patient impulse posted this set where he takes risk like b12 storm cell when he has a commanding life lead. Risks like that are never in RAIDEN’s favor with a life lead. Watch at 2:12 what happens to his f1. It’s a very reachable whiff punishable move.

 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Who are you playing against where that works lol? Are you on ps4 or Xbox? If you think it’s a battle of f1 vs f2, are you just playing super casually? I ran a set with unjust. Shao Kahn does not challenge f1 with his f2. He challenges with a sweep / dash up d4 which on block creates favorable spacing for him. Shao also punishes any non Mb projectile with charge with input short cuts on. Low level joker players will also try to challenge f1 with their f2. But Joker destroys Raiden at a high level if you react to f1 with a dash in d4 and then establish pressure.

Have you used Raiden against someone like Unjust, Grr, or Hayatei? I run into them pretty frequently and you can’t just throw out f1 the way you can against most other people. Do you really think sticking your f1 out is going to do a thing against some one like videogamezyo’s shao? These players can react to that.

You have any match footage?
I mean no one is reacting to a 16f move. Even Sonicfox has trouble consistently reacting to Sub’s 19f F2 offline, let alone online, and that’s just to block in time. People doing D4 on prediction of you throwing out F11 exists in any MU. Whiff punishing is something else entirely and yes if you whiff F1 you’re getting punished, but at the same time it’s not like Raiden only has F1 for his neutral. He also has F4 to punish those D4s if they are mis-spaced. Raiden‘s most optimal game plan/play style is to abuse his insanely good back walk and just out space most characters as TW. For characters he cannot run away from you switch to Raijin. At least that’s how Pluralmite sees his MU spread. Right now in the current build he doesn’t really have a whole lot of bad MUs and he goes even or beats a lot of the current top tiers.