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Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

I played some fun matches vs a really solid Rambo player a few weeks ago, I'll try to upload them soon. Also had finally ran some fun mirror Raiden matches with Mandalore awhile back...

To xRantex, you play on PC right? Message me on Discord (name UnshavenRaven) and I can open a cross-play room (I'm on PSN).

Peace!

#RaidenGang #TruthAndLight
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
I played some fun matches vs a really solid Rambo player a few weeks ago, I'll try to upload them soon. Also had finally ran some fun mirror Raiden matches with Mandalore awhile back...

To xRantex, you play on PC right? Message me on Discord (name UnshavenRaven) and I can open a cross-play room (I'm on PSN).

Peace!

#RaidenGang #TruthAndLight
No cross play between PC and PS4. Only XBox and PS4
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
Administrator
Premium Supporter
Here's a treat for you Raiden mains. If you're not familiar with Roethor, he's probably the best Rambo player in the world on PS4 and is a regular on the Arena Sets, playing against basically the entire EU Evo top 8, including this year's winner, Disarted. Dude is a serious sweat.

Well, anyway, I posted an open invitation to our PC KOTH on R1p's Discord and guess who decides to crash the party. He played a Lightning Rod Raiden against my RoboCop and I had no idea what was happening. I didn't even know Rod did some of the shit it was doing lol so I got freed up pretty hard. Enjoy!


Other than not knowing the frame data on the move, I wasn't aware it could knock me out of my strings during my turn, as happened around 1:01:06.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
Here's a treat for you Raiden mains. If you're not familiar with Roethor, he's probably the best Rambo player in the world on PS4 and is a regular on the Arena Sets, playing against basically the entire EU Evo top 8, including this year's winner, Disarted. Dude is a serious sweat.

Well, anyway, I posted an open invitation to our PC KOTH on R1p's Discord and guess who decides to crash the party. He played a Lightning Rod Raiden against my RoboCop and I had no idea what was happening. I didn't even know Rod did some of the shit it was doing lol so I got freed up pretty hard. Enjoy!


Other than not knowing the frame data on the move, I wasn't aware it could knock me out of my strings during my turn, as happened around 1:01:06.
Sweet. I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning Rod, but I've always thought that pairing it with Teleport made the most sense. Gives Raiden the extra option of teleporting in and punishing the opponent if they try to toss projectiles inside the bubble.


Most of the time if Raiden puts you in the bubble, just duck and chill, and be ready to react to a jump in. Raiden only has one overhead in B2 and it's too stubby to use after a rod setup unless it's the corner or Raiden commits to dashing in first. So usually after Raiden puts you in the bubble his only follow up options are projectile (27f startup), jump in, dash B2(19f startup and death on block), or F4/F2.

On block Rod is -21, so at 1:00:45 you probably could have had a punish. Depending on how much your combo moves you forward you might not be able to get a normal punish due to being interrupted by the bubble, but at the very least you could probably get something like a normal canceled into a projectile or something.
 
Sweet. I'm not the biggest fan of Lightning Rod, but I've always thought that pairing it with Teleport made the most sense. Gives Raiden the extra option of teleporting in and punishing the opponent if they try to toss projectiles inside the bubble.


Most of the time if Raiden puts you in the bubble, just duck and chill, and be ready to react to a jump in. Raiden only has one overhead in B2 and it's too stubby to use after a rod setup unless it's the corner or Raiden commits to dashing in first. So usually after Raiden puts you in the bubble his only follow up options are projectile (27f startup), jump in, dash B2(19f startup and death on block), or F4/F2.

On block Rod is -21, so at 1:00:45 you probably could have had a punish. Depending on how much your combo moves you forward you might not be able to get a normal punish due to being interrupted by the bubble, but at the very least you could probably get something like a normal canceled into a projectile or something.
Yeah, using Rod with Teleport is a fun combo. I play Raiden mirrors often vs a player on PSN that uses that exact combo (Worldwideweesnaw). It's an interesting contrast vs my Jo Push and Rod combo.

To Robocop, yeah the main purpose of the bubble is to trap your movement and get you staggered if you cross it. Use your projectiles while you're in it to counter them. The bubble goes away after 3 seconds, and it costs meter.
 

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
@UnshavenRaven

I know you like using Rod. What would you think about a kit consisting of Rod, Rolling Thunder, and Super Bolt?

If the opponent is in the bubble and gets hit with a fully charged Super Bolt, it hits them into the bubble and lets Raiden follow up something like B121+3 or D2 for about 24%. Maybe more, I'm not sure what's optimal.

There's no metered launcher, but that's ok because most of the meter would be spent on Rod, Super Bolt, or Projectiles. Amped Super Bolt gives a ton of corner carry and leads to Raiden's hardest knockdown, letting him safely set up another rod or Rolling Thunder.

Game plan would generally revolve around doing something like B12 into amped Rod, or hard knockdown into amped rod, and then following up with either Bolt, Projectile, jump in, F4/F2/, or Rolling Thunder. Rod would restrict movement, while rolling thunder would try and make them wary to approach and add to the pressure when they're in the bubble.

Raiden wouldn't have a launcher, so his punish game would be lacking, and he wouldn't have the space control of Jo Push, or the anti-air of Jo Push, but he'd still have Summon Lightning as a reliable anti-air. Super Bolt also has a KB when fully charged and hits as a counter or punish. I feel like if part of the benefit of the Bubble is to make opponents hesitate, break up their rhythm, and get them to hit buttons at the wrong time then Super Bolt could try and take advantage of that.

Thoughts?
 
@UnshavenRaven

I know you like using Rod. What would you think about a kit consisting of Rod, Rolling Thunder, and Super Bolt?

If the opponent is in the bubble and gets hit with a fully charged Super Bolt, it hits them into the bubble and lets Raiden follow up something like B121+3 or D2 for about 24%. Maybe more, I'm not sure what's optimal.

There's no metered launcher, but that's ok because most of the meter would be spent on Rod, Super Bolt, or Projectiles. Amped Super Bolt gives a ton of corner carry and leads to Raiden's hardest knockdown, letting him safely set up another rod or Rolling Thunder.

Game plan would generally revolve around doing something like B12 into amped Rod, or hard knockdown into amped rod, and then following up with either Bolt, Projectile, jump in, F4/F2/, or Rolling Thunder. Rod would restrict movement, while rolling thunder would try and make them wary to approach and add to the pressure when they're in the bubble.

Raiden wouldn't have a launcher, so his punish game would be lacking, and he wouldn't have the space control of Jo Push, or the anti-air of Jo Push, but he'd still have Summon Lightning as a reliable anti-air. Super Bolt also has a KB when fully charged and hits as a counter or punish. I feel like if part of the benefit of the Bubble is to make opponents hesitate, break up their rhythm, and get them to hit buttons at the wrong time then Super Bolt could try and take advantage of that.

Thoughts?
Lol coincidentally, I actually have this variation already as a secondary for my Raiden matches. Lots of fun to use.
 

AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
Just want to give some helpful advice. The Shao Kahn match is a nightmare if you're using a teleport variation. You simply rarely have the meter to to punish f34. I typically switch to Fujin or Kabal and win that way, but if you want to stick it out with Raiden, I'd advise Lighting storm or Staff Slam/ Quick charge.
 
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Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Just want to give some helpful advice. The Shao Kahn match is a nightmare if you're using a teleport variation. You simply rarely have the meter to to punish f34. I typically switch to Fujin or Kabal and win that way, but if you want to stick it out with Raiden, I'd advise Lighting storm or Staff Slam/ Quick charge.
TW does well against Shao I feel. The entire point is not to let him get close enough to enforce any sort of offence, and you can win the neutral with F11 as his only other button with that sort of range is super slow. Otherwise just walk backwards and try to out-space him as much as possible. You don't necessarily need to switch to another variation (though float is nice if you want to mash against his slower buttons)
 

AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
TW does well against Shao I feel. The entire point is not to let him get close enough to enforce any sort of offence, and you can win the neutral with F11 as his only other button with that sort of range is super slow. Otherwise just walk backwards and try to out-space him as much as possible. You don't necessarily need to switch to another variation (though float is nice if you want to mash against his slower buttons)
Who are you playing against where that works lol? Are you on ps4 or Xbox? If you think it’s a battle of f1 vs f2, are you just playing super casually? I ran a set with unjust. Shao Kahn does not challenge f1 with his f2. He challenges with a sweep / dash up d4 which on block creates favorable spacing for him. Shao also punishes any non Mb projectile with charge with input short cuts on. Low level joker players will also try to challenge f1 with their f2. But Joker destroys Raiden at a high level if you react to f1 with a dash in d4 and then establish pressure.

Have you used Raiden against someone like Unjust, Grr, or Hayatei? I run into them pretty frequently and you can’t just throw out f1 the way you can against most other people. Do you really think sticking your f1 out is going to do a thing against some one like videogamezyo’s shao? These players can react to that.

You have any match footage?
 

AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
I want to add you do have the right idea about establishing good spacing and running away. Patient impulse posted this set where he takes risk like b12 storm cell when he has a commanding life lead. Risks like that are never in RAIDEN’s favor with a life lead. Watch at 2:12 what happens to his f1. It’s a very reachable whiff punishable move.

 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
Who are you playing against where that works lol? Are you on ps4 or Xbox? If you think it’s a battle of f1 vs f2, are you just playing super casually? I ran a set with unjust. Shao Kahn does not challenge f1 with his f2. He challenges with a sweep / dash up d4 which on block creates favorable spacing for him. Shao also punishes any non Mb projectile with charge with input short cuts on. Low level joker players will also try to challenge f1 with their f2. But Joker destroys Raiden at a high level if you react to f1 with a dash in d4 and then establish pressure.

Have you used Raiden against someone like Unjust, Grr, or Hayatei? I run into them pretty frequently and you can’t just throw out f1 the way you can against most other people. Do you really think sticking your f1 out is going to do a thing against some one like videogamezyo’s shao? These players can react to that.

You have any match footage?
I mean no one is reacting to a 16f move. Even Sonicfox has trouble consistently reacting to Sub’s 19f F2 offline, let alone online, and that’s just to block in time. People doing D4 on prediction of you throwing out F11 exists in any MU. Whiff punishing is something else entirely and yes if you whiff F1 you’re getting punished, but at the same time it’s not like Raiden only has F1 for his neutral. He also has F4 to punish those D4s if they are mis-spaced. Raiden‘s most optimal game plan/play style is to abuse his insanely good back walk and just out space most characters as TW. For characters he cannot run away from you switch to Raijin. At least that’s how Pluralmite sees his MU spread. Right now in the current build he doesn’t really have a whole lot of bad MUs and he goes even or beats a lot of the current top tiers.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
You don’t have to take my word for it. You can go ask Pluralmite, Patient Impulse or VLVJ14, I’m pretty sure they will all agree that Raiden does well against Shao, and generally doesn’t have many bad MUs at all in his current state. He’s just really under-represented.

EDIT: This is his tier list he sent out a while back. I don’t really remember if this is the most updated version. I personally feel that some 5-5s can be slightly in the opponent’s favour but Pluralmite’s the literal best Raiden in the world (either him or PI) so who am I to challenge him.
 
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AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
Why don’t you ask patient impulse what his opinion on the character is and he’ll tell you he needs buffs. That discussion doesn't really matter because the game is over. I’ve played the mirror with him and he’ll laugh at how poor Raiden is in this game. He has no real oki tool at all. B31 gap is a major deal that neuters his tool kit. His s1 string has a flawless block which forces you to use an 11 frame s2 string in it’a place. You can os the b12 mix. Close low lightning has no utility. We’re playing a character that was clipped from the start because sonic fox complained about lighting strike at the reveal event. That’s not up for debate; that’s literally what happened. I’m right there on the leader boards with plurlalmite man and Raiden doesn’t have much representation because at a high level everything he does is a gimmick. It’s about keeping your opponent in a state of “what am I going to do next,” until you have the opportunity to run away again. My advice is there for people struggling with the matchup. Teleport can be a liability if you’re deprived of meter in situations where you need to flawless block. Yes he does have really good walk bad speed and that’s how I play him for the most part. My advice was purely about the conservation of meter.
 
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AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
That tier list you posted is pre patch shao Kahn. I’d really love to know what his opinion is of the matchup is now if you’re in contact with him.
 

Mandolore1123

Man of Science Who Wields the Living Lightning
That tier list you posted is pre patch shao Kahn. I’d really love to know what his opinion is of the matchup is now if you’re in contact with him.
Pluralmite doesn't play the game anymore but feel free to ask those other players about the MU. Or just ask VGY if he still streams
 

AgentKurtz

"Be gone destroyer!"
I'm in no rush nor do I care, it was rhetorical. I know my thoughts on the character. You clearly have yours. Are you on Ps4 or Xbox?
 
192.168.100.1 192.168.1.1
I played some fun matches vs a really solid Rambo player a few weeks ago, I'll try to upload them soon. Also had finally ran some fun mirror Raiden matches with Mandalore awhile back...

To xRantex, you play on PC right? Message me on Discord (name UnshavenRaven) and I can open a cross-play room (I'm on PSN).

Peace!

#RaidenGang #TruthAndLight
good for you !!
 
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