Lord Raiden General Discussion Thread

[UnshavenRaven]

The problem with those pros is that Raiden has no problem dealing with those issues at that range. Against those advancing buttons you can’t reactively throw out Jo Push because it’s so slow, so if you’re going to throw something out why not throw something that’s faster with slightly less range (F1), or just walk back with Raiden’s amazing back walk and whiff punish? Same thing with jumps, if they are trying to jump on Raiden why rely on a slow special when you can just B1 trip guard and get a higher damage punish? Same with the side switch issue. To me jo push as a move is invalidated by Raiden having strong enough base tools to maintain such advantages and having cheaper and more effective custom moves that will give more reward but with the same weakness, AND doesn’t replace electric fly.

Again, I don’t really care if people pick that move. I’m happy there’s still someone who likes the variation enough to play it despite all its flaws. I’m not really a setup player either so I wouldn’t have dabbled in this variation if it was any good anyway. I’m just personally not convinced to use Jo Push when I can use other moves that are just better.

I don’t mind playing you if you’re West Coast or something. I’m from Hong Kong and I’m usually only free on Saturday afternoons. If you want to find me for games just shoot me a DM on PSN or something.

To you and also @xRantex , yeah that'd definitely be cool to run some matches! Would be interesting to check out your customs too. Just gotta get both of your PSN tags (mine is "UnshavenOne").

 

[xRantex]

To you and also @xRantex , yeah that'd definitely be cool to run some matches! Would be interesting to check out your customs too. Just gotta get both of your PSN tags (mine is "UnshavenOne").

I'm on Xbox so we could cross play? Forever Infern0 (the number 0)

 

[Mandolore1123]

To you and also @xRantex , yeah that'd definitely be cool to run some matches! Would be interesting to check out your customs too. Just gotta get both of your PSN tags (mine is "UnshavenOne").

Mandolore1123

 

[Marlow]

I'm Redwin6411 on PSN, and Marlow0822 on Xbox. I wouldn't mind playing some matches with people sometime just so I could actually get decent at the game, although it's hard for me to find time to play these days. I'm US Central time, and normally evenings after 8:00 work best.

 

[Marlow]

What's the best or most damaging launcher/ender to use with 243 mid-screen? Can you get anything off of 243 into Storm Cell, Electric Current, or Jo Push? Or are the options when mid screen simply doing an ender like Electric Fly, Super Bolt, or Summon Lightning?

 

[Mandolore1123]

What's the best or most damaging launcher/ender to use with 243 mid-screen? Can you get anything off of 243 into Storm Cell, Electric Current, or Jo Push? Or are the options when mid screen simply doing an ender like Electric Fly, Super Bolt, or Summon Lightning?

Storm cell and electric current don't work off 243 mid-screen. Idk about super bolt or Jo push but fly and summon lightning are your best bets generally

 

[Marlow]

Super Bolt does less damage than fly, the only solid part is that on amp it gives good corner carry, solid knockdown, and leaves Raiden at a range and advantage where he can do something like a full charged Super Bolt against the opponents wakeup. Not guaranteed but if the opponent messes up it can lead to a combo or even a KB.

My favorite strings of Raiden are his F32 and 243, so I'm just double checking that I'm making my Raiden build accordingly. Just searching for the special moves that would have the most synergy with those two strings.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

My favorite strings of Raiden are his F32 and 243, so I'm just double checking that I'm making my Raiden build accordingly. Just searching for the special moves that would have the most synergy with those two strings.

I only run with TW Raiden, but I ran into someone that had his low-hitting special equipped, I forget what it's called. Can launch and convert in the corner. Anyways it turned every f3 into a 50/50 and it gave me a pretty tough time. It also turns his b1 into a 50/50 as b14 hits mid to overhead.

243 is great. I always just dial in the superman (provided I have defensive meter) and let it rock if the low hits, cancel it if they block the low and go into f2 (for plus frames) or more f3/b1 pressure.

But yeah I really like that low special and the mixups it creates. I've been meaning to mess around with it in the lab, haven't had time.

 

[Marlow]

I only run with TW Raiden, but I ran into someone that had his low-hitting special equipped, I forget what it's called. Can launch and convert in the corner. Anyways it turned every f3 into a 50/50 and it gave me a pretty tough time. It also turns his b1 into a 50/50 as b14 hits mid to overhead.

243 is great. I always just dial in the superman (provided I have defensive meter) and let it rock if the low hits, cancel it if they block the low and go into f2 (for plus frames) or more f3/b1 pressure.

But yeah I really like that low special and the mixups it creates. I've been meaning to mess around with it in the lab, haven't had time.

That's his electric current. DB4 slot.

 

[UnshavenRaven]

What's the best or most damaging launcher/ender to use with 243 mid-screen? Can you get anything off of 243 into Storm Cell, Electric Current, or Jo Push? Or are the options when mid screen simply doing an ender like Electric Fly, Super Bolt, or Summon Lightning?

When you're midscreen, if you want to chain together a combo with 2, 4, 3... usually the best option is to simply dial in 2, 4 only then use your launcher (that way you still get the low kick benefit, without kicking your enemy too far back with the last hit.

In regards to Jo Push and 243, technically you CAN land a Jo Push after hitting the full 243 (the far reach hits them and gives great corner carry)... BUT, the hit is not consistent among the entire roster, so with some characters it'll whiff (even if it does whiff though, you're safe, as the enemy will be flying thru the air far back). Just don't amplify it, because the 2nd hit will not connect.

A nice little setup I like to do goes like this:

Hit the 243, Jo Push, they go flying into the corner, then as they're getting up, immediately fire out DF2 amped on them.

 

[Mandolore1123]

Anyways it turned every f3 into a 50/50 and it gave me a pretty tough time. It also turns his b1 into a 50/50 as b14 hits mid to overhead

Not 50/50s, fuzzy overhead then low. F32 is 12f and EC is 20+f, same with B14. The only real mix Raiden has is B2/B3 and strike/throw

 

[Marlow]

Just a follow up to yesterday:

243~Super Bolt Amp does 237
243~Electric Fly Amp does 240
243~Summon Lightning Amp does 244
243~Jo Push whiffs, at least on Jaqui.


Bolt and Fly obviously both have corner carry. Bolt leaves Raiden +48, Fly leaves Raiden +14, and Summon Lightning leaves Raiden +29. Bolt also leaves Raiden at a range where he can do another max charge bolt, and if it hits he can do a D1~Summon Lightning in the corner, or if it hits as a punish or kounter it triggers a KB.

 

[Marlow]

@xRantex

I'm guessing your comment about Scorpion's teleport cancel got moved or deleted from the NRS Support thread, they're likely just trying to keep that thread on topic instead of turning into a Raiden discussion thread.

Anyways, just wanted to weigh in quickly on that. I'm not sure your point about Scorpion's teleport launcher being safe holds up. Yes, he can cancel it, but he has to have an ability equipped for that which takes two slots, it costs a bar of defensive meter, and he can't hit confirm the teleport itself, he'd need to hit confirm the string. Scorpion's Teleport itself is still massively unsafe as it's a high with a small gap before the amp, and if the amp is blocked he's -14. So it's still very much in line with the idea of launchers being unsafe.

 

[xRantex]

@xRantex

I'm guessing your comment about Scorpion's teleport cancel got moved or deleted from the NRS Support thread, they're likely just trying to keep that thread on topic instead of turning into a Raiden discussion thread.

Anyways, just wanted to weigh in quickly on that. I'm not sure your point about Scorpion's teleport launcher being safe holds up. Yes, he can cancel it, but he has to have an ability equipped for that which takes two slots, it costs a bar of defensive meter, and he can't hit confirm the teleport itself, he'd need to hit confirm the string. Scorpion's Teleport itself is still massively unsafe as it's a high with a small gap before the amp, and if the amp is blocked he's -14. So it's still very much in line with the idea of launchers being unsafe.

My point was he has a launcher that he can cancel out of if he can't hit confirm it.

 

[Marlow]

My point was he has a launcher that he can cancel out of if he can't hit confirm it.

Yeah but his launcher is still unsafe. Being able to cancel it could potentially make a string safe, but not the launcher itself. If Scorpion lets his teleport rock and he's blocked he can be full combo punished. It's not that different from Raiden being able to teleport after B12 instead of Storm Cell, or doing B12 into a canceled Electric Fly.

 

[xRantex]

Yeah but his launcher is still unsafe. Being able to cancel it could potentially make a string safe, but not the launcher itself. If Scorpion lets his teleport rock and he's blocked he can be full combo punished. It's not that different from Raiden being able to teleport after B12 instead of Storm Cell, or doing B12 into a canceled Electric Fly.

Oh ok gotcha, I forgot about that. Raiden's other options. It's so much Raiden can do b1, grab/ B12 grab if they not expecting it I'm so used to doing that or B12 lighting strike works sometimes.

 

[Mandolore1123]

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1429576430267076614

Raiden S tier confirmed

 

[theotherguy]

I think you'll find all the tech in this game was figured out 2days after release...

 

[RoboCop]

I think you'll find all the tech in this game was figured out 2days after release...

I'm still discovering new things every day. With RoboCop, I just figured out a full-screen Mine into OCP Charge that allows for a 35% 1-bar kombo. After grinding out the Shao matchup, I realized that if you flawless-block his f34(1+3), the grab won't come out, leaving Shao -14, allowing for a full-kombo punish without spending meter on a flawless-block-u2. I'm sure that's known, but I haven't seen it mentioned on TYM, and it was new to me. Is MK11 too simplified? Absolutely. Is there still enough depth to get immense enjoyment out of the game with your friends? Totally.

 

[Marlow]

I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.

 

[Mandolore1123]

I'm still discovering new things every day. With RoboCop, I just figured out a full-screen Mine into OCP Charge that allows for a 35% 1-bar kombo. After grinding out the Shao matchup, I realized that if you flawless-block his f34(1+3), the grab won't come out, leaving Shao -14, allowing for a full-kombo punish without spending meter on a flawless-block-u2. I'm sure that's known, but I haven't seen it mentioned on TYM, and it was new to me. Is MK11 too simplified? Absolutely. Is there still enough depth to get immense enjoyment out of the game with your friends? Totally.

Nah man, MK11 baby game. No tech. Worse game ever

 

[Darth-Nero]

I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.

I learned kollector in only 1 hour in the lab, followed by 10 win streak on ladder. Watching Destroyer inspired me to pick him up.

 

[Marlow]

I learned kollector in only 1 hour in the lab, followed by 10 win streak on ladder. Watching Destroyer inspired me to pick him up.

That's awesome. Personally I kind of like that characters in MK11 are easy to pick up, it means any time you see a character that interests you, you can get started with them without much barrier to entry.

Seems like with MK11 they're trying to lean into Bushnell's Law, easy to learn difficult to master.

 

[Darth-Nero]

Yes after how obnoxiously difficult it was to pick up displacer Raiden in mkx, i learned to appreciate how accessible they made everyone in mk11. That's 1 thing in mk11 i wish would carry on to mk12.

 

[UnshavenRaven]

I think characters in MK11 are simple and similar enough that if you want to learn a new character it's pretty easy to pick up the bare bones B&B normals, strings, and combos without much hassle. But if you bother to spend more time with a character you can really start to pick up some small subtle things that can be very rewarding.

That's been my experience with Raiden, at least.

Absolutely 100 percent agree with this, good sir. The key thing about MK11, is that mastering the high level in this game isn't really about mastering "optimal" B&B combos and strings as the "end all be all." The real fun challenge at the higher level is mastering the neutral game, whiff punishes, baiting, pokes... playing mind games and capitalizing on enemy habits. That's a key thing I feel MK11 nailed better than MKX.