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Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
Match-up charts aren't based on how the tools are used by players. They are based upon the tools in general. If a character has better tools, it doesn't matter how you use them, they win the MU. MU charts are based upon tools, not player skill level or utilization of tools. If MU charts worked how you say it, kenshi would beat Lao since Pig has beaten just about every top Lao in tourney.
But most MU charts are based on player performance in tournaments and the way they play the MU. There tools people don't use or playstyles that people don't consider when playing MUs. And your statement is false, Pig has beaten many KLs yes, but if he played the top KL which is PL he most likely wouldn't win. My KL is good but not a top KL. Its only a KL made for killing Kabals.
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
Sonya should be winning 6-4 and cyrax should be even. Imo KL has yet to be played at the absolute highest level in terms of footsies, patience, reaction, and situational setups. The 2 people that played KL the correct way was A F0xy Grampa and REO

If they stuck with the character since day 1 the MU charts for KL would be very different. We also don't really have that many sonyas or people that are are dedicated with sonya. Most of our sonya players are people who picked her up not to long ago or don't play the game that often or don't attend tournaments.

Perfect Legend is prolly the best KL there is now but imo I think he rushes down too much and needs to play a little patient is some MUs. Patience is a virtue and rushing down 24/7 especially with a character like KL isn't going to be affective all the time.

Also other changes I would make:
5-5 cage
6-4/7-3 over Mileena
6-4 over sektor
Sektor and Mileena are debateable, Cage definitely wins this match-up tho.

But yeah REO and Foxy play Kung Lao the correct way, but Forever King and Perfect Legend places higher at tournaments with Kung Lao?
#Makes sense
 

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
All this talk about 'blowing up the teleport'. Jax doesn't, at all. Sonya can blow up the teleport (41% gauranteed), Cyrax can (Resets), Cage can, Rain can etc. But Jax does little damage for the risk.

Jax's low hitbox doesn't mean much because once he can start offense, he's already risking. KL full combos Jaxs moves, Jax only pokes KL's.
KL can go mad with spins midscreen since Jax cant punish for shit.

Jaxs deadly corner game doesnt work the same way against KL, since KLs 2 1 is 7f and Jaxs F4 is 8 frames, so Jax HAS to poke because KL can just mash 2 1s while blocking Jaxs offense.

KL can either throw a hat on reaction to GPs or divekick into Ex spin/roll.
Ok, so do you agree with this list for the most part except for Jax Rain CSZ Kano?
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Lol at sonya being 7-3 vs lao....in ur dreams.

i find it hard to imagine lao being at a 3-7 disadvantage vs Cyrax, maybe 4-6 but not 3-7.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
But most MU charts are based on player performance in tournaments and the way they play the MU. There tools people don't use or playstyles that people don't consider when playing MUs. And your statement is false, Pig has beaten many KLs yes, but if he played the top KL which is PL he most likely wouldn't win. My KL is good but not a top KL. Its only a KL made for killing Kabals.
MU charts are based upon performance in tournament, yes. Remember though, tournament results are based on Characters and their tools. My point was, Kenshi vs Lao is terrible for Kenshi, yet Pig has very few problems in the Match-up. He would be ignorant to go around saying "Kenshi vs Lao is 5-5" because that fact that Lao has better tools in the MU isn't debatable.

But if we want to talk tourney performances, Mileena took a set against Lao in grand finals and nearly won it all Evo 2011. Sektor took 2 sets vs Lao to get a win a VXG last year, and PL has lost to every Cage in Las Vegas as well as Dizzy. Not to blow anyone up, but results from these MUs at the highes level disagree with you.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
Sektor and Mileena are debateable, Cage definitely wins this match-up tho.

But yeah REO and Foxy play Kung Lao the correct way, but Forever King and Perfect Legend places higher at tournaments with Kung Lao?
#Makes sense
Cmon man don't be a flame you know how crazy their KL's are especially F0xy, I know you've played his lao. Mileena and KL is 7-3 according to Tom and idk about Pig Of The Hut

I think I heard him say Mileena loses to lao and I think she does too because KL doesn't have to do anything but sit back and be patient which is what PL lacks dude. Sektor is sorta the same way. But nobody plays these MU's right because everyone loves to rushdown... I played Kizzle online and even though its online I just want to say I did well against him using lao. You have to play very different in many MUs which is a struggle for some people that are so used to one playstyle with him.

Cage doesn't definitely win because you can lame the shit out of cage but nobody does that because everyone loves to rushdown with KL.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
MU charts are based upon performance in tournament, yes. Remember though, tournament results are based on Characters and their tools. My point was, Kenshi vs Lao is terrible for Kenshi, yet Pig has very few problems in the Match-up. He would be ignorant to go around saying "Kenshi vs Lao is 5-5" because that fact that Lao has better tools in the MU isn't debatable.

But if we want to talk tourney performances, Mileena took a set against Lao in grand finals and nearly won it all Evo 2011. Sektor took 2 sets vs Lao to get a win a VXG last year, and PL has lost to every Cage in Las Vegas as well as Dizzy. Not to blow anyone up, but results from these MUs at the highes level disagree with you.
You don't understand. Pig has beaten pocket Laos. I don't think he would choose Kenshi vs PL in a tournament because thats the one MU KL can rush the shit out of Kenshi and get away with it. PL loses to all these cages and I know the reason why.... HE RUSHES DOWN TO MUCH. Your not getting my point when I say they aren't playing the MU right or using the right tools dude. I've beaten PL in tournament I would know. Hes too aggressive at certain times and thats his problem. Thats most of the KL's in this community's problem. PL almost lost to REO last year at evo because he wasn't patient enough man. Like I said in a different post KL isn't all about being such a rushdown character but people play him like this for whatever reason Idk.
 

Tokiwartoothxdk

『T R I G G E R E D』
Ermac can be annoying for Kung Lao yes. But I have pretty much fought the best of the best of Ermacs, Kung Lao has a slight advantage. Ermac is generally all about zoning and Lao is one of hardest characters in the game to zone.
Dat Mobility
Also up close once Kung gets in, his normals are all faster than Ermacs' and they are safe on block. Ermac has to guess when to poke out and possibly eat a spin. All of Ermac's normals are full combo punish on block
Which normals are you speaking of? Most of his strings are 0 or even plus on block. If your speaking about d1 and d3 then yeah lol Ermac gets the blunt end of the stick with them. I would very much like to run this match-up with you sometime.
 
Sektor and Mileena are debateable, Cage definitely wins this match-up tho.

But yeah REO and Foxy play Kung Lao the correct way, but Forever King and Perfect Legend places higher at tournaments with Kung Lao?
#Makes sense
reo knew a lot of stuff about kl but he didnt play kl enough to think like a kl player and you could see that. I do think Pl should implement like 30% of foxy's style of kl in his gameplay and he would be godlike. I think a kl player should understand kl footsies like foxy does but at the same time, kung lao needs to be played crazy sometimes, depending on the situation matchup and momentum.
 
Cmon man don't be a flame you know how crazy their KL's are especially F0xy, I know you've played his lao. Mileena and KL is 7-3 according to Tom and idk about Pig Of The Hut

I think I heard him say Mileena loses to lao and I think she does too because KL doesn't have to do anything but sit back and be patient which is what PL lacks dude. Sektor is sorta the same way. But nobody plays these MU's right because everyone loves to rushdown... I played Kizzle online and even though its online I just want to say I did well against him using lao. You have to play very different in many MUs which is a struggle for some people that are so used to one playstyle with him.

Cage doesn't definitely win because you can lame the shit out of cage but nobody does that because everyone loves to rushdown with KL.
my friend, im all ears how do you lame cage out. me thinks is 6-4 cage. btw completely agree with the mileena matchup, you kind of need to play it turtle style.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
my friend, im all ears how do you lame cage out. me thinks is 6-4 cage. btw completely agree with the mileena matchup, you kind of need to play it turtle style.
best way i think to play against cage is to use ur footsie tools in 21 and d4. when he's comming toward you, use 1 or 2 low hats to try and bait jump ins or red kicks and punish with a read punish Ex Hat toss or Ex Spin. Or if red kick, block and punish. And anytime you get the chance to throw him...do it. Make him think your gonna poke then just throw him. once he starts respecting the throw u can start spinning him. You gotta make him start playing your game before he starts making you play his.
 

gdf

Noob
Lol at sonya being 7-3 vs lao....in ur dreams.

i find it hard to imagine lao being at a 3-7 disadvantage vs Cyrax, maybe 4-6 but not 3-7.
I don't know what you meant by Sonya being 7-3 funny. But I have to say in that match-up it is 6-4 for Sonya. Kung Lao isn't helpless, but Sonya players still have an advantage.
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
my friend, im all ears how do you lame cage out. me thinks is 6-4 cage. btw completely agree with the mileena matchup, you kind of need to play it turtle style.
Umm same with mileena. Except throw low hates from full screen and just jump over dive kick and run away. Cage can't catchup if your spacing is on point.
 
Umm same with mileena. Except throw low hates from full screen and just jump over dive kick and run away. Cage can't catchup if your spacing is on point.
so youre basically going for the time outs? the cage player is going to catch you eventually and what if he gets the life lead first?
 

CURBOLICOUS

Cage ban wagon?
so youre basically going for the time outs? the cage player is going to catch you eventually and what if he gets the life lead first?
He can't catch you if your doing nothing but jump over divekick and so on. How will he get the lifelead if he can't reach you? Like I said throw hats from full screen so you can block the ex shadow kick and don't throw them from anywhere closer than full because cage can jump on reaction time or shadow kick. But KL's don't want to be patient like that. Thats something tom brady would do.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
so youre basically going for the time outs? the cage player is going to catch you eventually and what if he gets the life lead first?
don't let him get the life lead? otherwise your forced to rush him down. Lao has to make an effort to constantly keep cage on guard while at the same time being cautious with the teleport.
 

Obs_SmSwag

"I have good taste because I like what I like"
He can't catch you if your doing nothing but jump over divekick and so on. How will he get the lifelead if he can't reach you? Like I said throw hats from full screen so you can block the ex shadow kick and don't throw them from anywhere closer than full because cage can jump on reaction time or shadow kick. But KL's don't want to be patient like that. Thats something tom brady would do.
Flip Kick
 
He can't catch you if your doing nothing but jump over divekick and so on. How will he get the lifelead if he can't reach you? Like I said throw hats from full screen so you can block the ex shadow kick and don't throw them from anywhere closer than full because cage can jump on reaction time or shadow kick. But KL's don't want to be patient like that. Thats something tom brady would do.
wont b3 be an option to catch kung lao from the air? also I didnt know you could block shadow kicks full screen wile throwing hats thanks.
 

Wildabeast

The Bat in the Hat
Why is Noob a 7-3?
Noob has a high hitbox and cant zone lao. Other than that Noob has ways to counter Laos shenanigans but he gets very little damage off of them so for Lao there's really no reason to stop doing them.
 

YOMI DJT

LIn Kuei Champion
It's tough but Subby can manage. I have fought the matchup many of times using both Kung Lao and Sub-Zero and I feel like it's 6-4 if you know what to do in the match-up with Sub, 7-3 or worse if you don't know how to fight Lao with Sub.

Tom Brady , would you agree with me that Kung Lao vs Sub-Zero is 6-4? Or do you think it is 7-3
I agree completely 7-3 i've never agreed with that number vs sub and never will