Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

[ForeverKing]

What makes you think its a 6-4 or .5 in KL's favor ? And dont post online facts plz. Offline only.

You act like I'm only an online player and have no offline experience whatsoever. I know the fuckin difference lol. I have dabbled my feet a little here in there in the offline tournament scene.

Anyways, obviously Kung Lao wins the matchup up close which you already stated before. Kung Lao is considered one of the hardest characters in the game to keep out and zone, if it is tough for Freddy/Kabal/Kenshi to zone Kung Lao than what makes Ermac any special? One blocked TKP equals dive kick in or f3 roll in. One read fireball equals Kung Lao teleport 3 on reaction or just dive kick over. Kung Lao has to play smart in the matchup and can't teleport all over the place like in some match ups because Ermac easily punishes, but it still not that difficult for Kung Lao to get in and start his offense. Most of Ermac's normals are too slow to compete with Kung Lao and Ermac has no armor. So once Kung Lao gets in, he is in for a while and can harass Ermac with 1121 and 21 strings. I'm not even sure if Ermac has anything fast enough to punish 21212

 

[Big Pampering]

Never said it couldnt. But still that doesnt make the MU 6-4 KL. Its an even MU in my book. You can shut down many of KL's options if you play the MU as you have to play it.

he wins more than slightly upclose imo, ermac is one of the characters that does well against kung lao though.

 

[Big Pampering]

You act like I'm only an online player and have no offline experience whatsoever. I know the fuckin difference lol. I have dabbled my feet a little here in there in the offline tournament scene.

Anyways, obviously Kung Lao wins the matchup up close which you already stated before. Kung Lao is considered one of the hardest characters in the game to keep out and zone, if it is tough for Freddy/Kabal/Kenshi to zone Kung Lao than what makes Ermac any special? One blocked TKP equals dive kick in or f3 roll in. One read fireball equals Kung Lao teleport 3 on reaction or just dive kick over. Kung Lao has to play smart in the matchup and can't teleport all over the place like in some match ups because Ermac easily punishes, but it still not that difficult for Kung Lao to get in and start his offense. Most of Ermac's normals are too slow to compete with Kung Lao and Ermac has no armor. So once Kung Lao gets in, he is in for a while and can harass Ermac with 1121 and 21 strings. I'm not even sure if Ermac has anything fast enough to punish 21212

I dont believe he can punish ex spin on block either with the far pushback. 21212 is godlike when the opponent can't punish it.

 

[YOMI DJT]

To everyone that is saying that Kung Lao beats Mileena and it shouldn't be 5-5, I have my reasonings and I already explained them. But I will explain them one last time since you have to ask over and over and over.

Ok, I understand most Mileenas don't play the matchup right and you blow up most Mileenas with Kung Lao, OK I GOT IT. But tier lists aren't suppose to be based on random Mileena players, it's supposed to be based on the BEST MILEENA PLAYER and Mileena being played to the highest potential and best she could possibly be. Pig of the Hut is the best Mileena I have ever played and best Mileena I have ever seen, his Mileena goes 5-5 with my Kung Lao and goes 5-5 with Perfect Legends Kung Lao. Ok I understand I blow up random online Mileenas, cool. I'm talking about the best Mileena possible played to the highest possible level. So if any of you Kung Lao players think you can play Pig of the Huts Mileena 10 games straight and take more than 5 of those games, than come tell me.

Until than Kung Lao vs Mileena remains 5-5

i can beat pig mileena more than 5 times. he's good but its still mileena. i can do it with cyrax I definitely can do it with lao no way it is even. mileena loses to lao 6-4 minimum.

 

[ForeverKing]

i can beat pig mileena more than 5 times. he's good but its still mileena. i can do it with cyrax I definitely can do it with lao no way it is even. mileena loses to lao 6-4 minimum.

I can do it with Cyrax too, but Mileena just seems very annoying for Kung Lao. You can't really teleport at all because her hitbox is so low she can uppercut all teleports, and even she doesn't uppercut the teleport than whatever option you select out of teleport will whiff over Mileena's head anyway. Teleport is useless in this matchup. Up close Kung Lao wins but from far away I would say Mileena wins. She can just telekick your thrown hats on reaction and get free pressure off of Telekick on hit

 

[Sage Leviathan]

I can do it with Cyrax too, but Mileena just seems very annoying for Kung Lao. You can't really teleport at all because her hitbox is so low she can uppercut all teleports, and even she doesn't uppercut the teleport than whatever option you select out of teleport will whiff over Mileena's head anyway. Teleport is useless in this matchup. Up close Kung Lao wins but from far away I would say Mileena wins. She can just telekick your thrown hats on reaction and get free pressure off of Telekick on hit

If only Mileenas pressure wasnt piss-poor lmfao

 

[Metzos]

You act like I'm only an online player and have no offline experience whatsoever. I know the fuckin difference lol. I have dabbled my feet a little here in there in the offline tournament scene.

Anyways, obviously Kung Lao wins the matchup up close which you already stated before. Kung Lao is considered one of the hardest characters in the game to keep out and zone, if it is tough for Freddy/Kabal/Kenshi to zone Kung Lao than what makes Ermac any special? One blocked TKP equals dive kick in or f3 roll in. One read fireball equals Kung Lao teleport 3 on reaction or just dive kick over. Kung Lao has to play smart in the matchup and can't teleport all over the place like in some match ups because Ermac easily punishes, but it still not that difficult for Kung Lao to get in and start his offense. Most of Ermac's normals are too slow to compete with Kung Lao and Ermac has no armor. So once Kung Lao gets in, he is in for a while and can harass Ermac with 1121 and 21 strings. I'm not even sure if Ermac has anything fast enough to punish 21212

I didnt say you are only an online player, i asked you if you have played the MU offline, since zaf said that you played the top Ermac US players online. As for your strategy, i agree with you but Ermac wont just stand there after you dive kick the projectile. He can either back dash and continue zoning or dash in, if he is in range, and throw you back to full screen. Regarding the read fireball, the same applies to your low hats as well. One read low hat and Ermac tp's and has a free jump in and pressure afterwards. According to the frame data 21212 is at -13f on block, which means Ermac could punish it with lift, even if it has push back. Even if he cant punish it (cant be exactly sure cause i havent played the game since summer, i am really rusty in this game atm) 21212 still provides push back which is a plus to Ermac since he gets away from him and he is at F4, U4 and iAB range.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I can do it with Cyrax too, but Mileena just seems very annoying for Kung Lao. You can't really teleport at all because her hitbox is so low she can uppercut all teleports, and even she doesn't uppercut the teleport than whatever option you select out of teleport will whiff over Mileena's head anyway. Teleport is useless in this matchup. Up close Kung Lao wins but from far away I would say Mileena wins. She can just telekick your thrown hats on reaction and get free pressure off of Telekick on hit

that's the thing you don't have to teleport to win this match. mileena can't teleport either. mileena has to take more risks to win this match imo. kung lao doesn't have a problem with mileena. he can lame her out pretty easy imo.

 

[YOMI DJT]

there is no way mileena vs lao is even. that match is lao favor 6-4 minimum possible 7-3 its horrible mileena. pig just makes mileena look good vs lao in the matchup but mileena still loses it.

 

[YOMI DJT]

I can do it with Cyrax too, but Mileena just seems very annoying for Kung Lao. You can't really teleport at all because her hitbox is so low she can uppercut all teleports, and even she doesn't uppercut the teleport than whatever option you select out of teleport will whiff over Mileena's head anyway. Teleport is useless in this matchup. Up close Kung Lao wins but from far away I would say Mileena wins. She can just telekick your thrown hats on reaction and get free pressure off of Telekick on hit

plus you don't need to throw hats to win either. lao wins this pretty freely imo

 

[YOMI DJT]

lao players just need to learn the mileena mu. mileena is not a safe character at all. all her specials punishable on block by lao. too much upplaying of mileena vs lao

 

[KH_Captain]

sindel agreed, Nightwolf agreed, I think he beats mileena 6-4 though. the ONLY reason its not worse is cuz of her low hitbox. he punishes her hella hard. don't get me wrong mileena can be a great character in the hands of a smart player that doesnt make a lot of dumb mistakes, otherwise she's pretty unsafe. when i watch Pig Hut and Sonicfawx play her she looks pretty viable. I usually credit the player in those instances though.

 

[Big Pampering]

lao players just need to learn the mileena mu. mileena is not a safe character at all. all her specials punishable on block by lao. too much upplaying of mileena vs lao

there is still some stuff mileena players can do what they dont do, they dont make use of their low hitbox as they are supposed to, for example f2 on hit followed up by 24 can easily be poked out of or the mileena player can also roll it. mileena is bad at comebacks. every time kung lao touches mileena he should use meter combos to get the lifelead. once you get the big lifelead she has to come to you and because she has nothing but d4 she will fuck herself over because she doesnt have anything safe. after the lifelead all you need to make sure is that you punish mileena hard for whatever she does.

also mileenas preferred poke is d4 and most mileenas even forget they have a d3. so when youre close enough lao can use his d3 to beat her d4, mileena players get really frustrated when they cant handle their own medicine. once the mileena sees this they will either jump or d3 you back, by this time they have long forgotten you have a 6 frame spin because they only think about beating your d3 with their own.

 

[coolwhip]

i think kung lao goes even with cage(maybe slight adv cage favor) loses to sonya and gets 3-7ed by kabal

LOL no.

 

[YOMI DJT]

there is still some stuff mileena players can do what they dont do, they dont make use of their low hitbox as they are supposed to, for example f2 on hit followed up by 24 can easily be poked out of or the mileena player can also roll it. mileena is bad at comebacks. every time kung lao touches mileena he should use meter combos to get the lifelead. once you get the big lifelead she has to come to you and because she has nothing but d4 she will fuck herself over because she doesnt have anything safe. after the lifelead all you need to make sure is that you punish mileena hard for whatever she does.

mileena's low hitbox won't save her in this match. she has to take at least one risk to beat lao. odds not in her favor lao wins it

 

[Big Pampering]

mileena's low hitbox won't save her in this match. she has to take at least one risk to beat lao. odds not in her favor lao wins it

it wont save her but I was just saying if mileena players made better use of their low hitbox they would do better. also your match vs pig at dallas, the way you connected 24 on mileena shouldnt be happening all that often at all, Pig was probably doing a d4 and doing a backdash after it, which made him vulnerable to standing 2.

 

[Flagg]

Lol, from the sounds of it, Kung Lao is going 5-5 with everyone!

What an average character!

 

[coolwhip]

FOREVER KING just because Pig makes the match-up look 5-5 doesn't mean it's 5-5. Even if Pig vs PL constitutes the highest possible level of Mileena vs. Kung Lao doesn't mean we can simply base the numbers based on their results, especially since they've only met twice in tournament, which isn't enough data to base the numbers on.

There is a difference between a player grinding out a match-up and the true match-up numbers. Hell, 16 Bit beats most Kabal he plays with Kitana. Likewise, if you make Tom Brady run through a gauntlet of 10 Kitana players, and base the match-up numbers on that, you might conclude that Sub vs. Kitana is 5-5, which is obviously ridiculous.

 

[ForeverKing]

FOREVER KING just because Pig makes the match-up look 5-5 doesn't mean it's 5-5. Even if Pig vs PL constitutes the highest possible level of Mileena vs. Kung Lao doesn't mean we can simply base the numbers based on their results, especially since they've only met twice in tournament, which isn't enough data to base the numbers on.

There is a difference between a player grinding out a match-up and the true match-up numbers. Hell, 16 Bit beats most Kabal he plays with Kitana. Likewise, if you make Tom Brady run through a gauntlet of 10 Kitana players, and base the match-up numbers on that, you might conclude that Sub vs. Kitana is 5-5, which is obviously ridiculous.

I see what you mean, maybe Pig does just make Mileena look alot better than she is. But I still don't think this matchup is super difficult for Mileena, if she plays it right she could give Kung Lao a very aggravating time. People trying to say Kung Lao owns Mileena just don't know

 

[ForeverKing]

Lol, from the sounds of it, Kung Lao is going 5-5 with everyone!

What an average character!

There is only four 5-5 match-ups, that's not alot. One of those could be 6-4 so maybe he only has 3 even matchups, still needs looking into

 

[ForeverKing]

there is no way mileena vs lao is even. that match is lao favor 6-4 minimum possible 7-3 its horrible mileena. pig just makes mileena look good vs lao in the matchup but mileena still loses it.

I would say definitely not 7-3 at all. It was too hard for Kung Lao to start his offense on this character for it to be a 7-3. It may very well be a 6-4 tho

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

To everyone that is saying that Kung Lao beats Mileena and it shouldn't be 5-5, I have my reasonings and I already explained them. But I will explain them one last time since you have to ask over and over and over.

Ok, I understand most Mileenas don't play the matchup right and you blow up most Mileenas with Kung Lao, OK I GOT IT. But tier lists aren't suppose to be based on random Mileena players, it's supposed to be based on the BEST MILEENA PLAYER and Mileena being played to the highest potential and best she could possibly be. Pig of the Hut is the best Mileena I have ever played and best Mileena I have ever seen, his Mileena goes 5-5 with my Kung Lao and goes 5-5 with Perfect Legends Kung Lao. Ok I understand I blow up random online Mileenas, cool. I'm talking about the best Mileena possible played to the highest possible level. So if any of you Kung Lao players think you can play Pig of the Huts Mileena 10 games straight and take more than 5 of those games, than come tell me.

Until than Kung Lao vs Mileena remains 5-5

But Brady can blow up Pigs Mileena, also KL has unpunishable mixups against Mileena

 

[ForeverKing]

I didnt say you are only an online player, i asked you if you have played the MU offline, since zaf said that you played the top Ermac US players online. As for your strategy, i agree with you but Ermac wont just stand there after you dive kick the projectile. He can either back dash and continue zoning or dash in, if he is in range, and throw you back to full screen. Regarding the read fireball, the same applies to your low hats as well. One read low hat and Ermac tp's and has a free jump in and pressure afterwards. According to the frame data 21212 is at -13f on block, which means Ermac could punish it with lift, even if it has push back. Even if he cant punish it (cant be exactly sure cause i havent played the game since summer, i am really rusty in this game atm) 21212 still provides push back which is a plus to Ermac since he gets away from him and he is at F4, U4 and iAB range.

When you Kung Lao gets in from a tele or dive kick he is most likely going to standing~2, which will beat Ermac's throw. If he is going to throw hats it is going to be to trade, not just throw hats in open space while Ermac isn't doing anything. If Ermac isn't doing anything than Kung Lao is most likely going to just dash in. If 21212 is punishable by lift than that could be a game changer, but if it is not punishable by lift than Ermac is in some big trouble. 1o% chip damage plus half a bar of meter built for Kung Lao, 34% on hit if Ermac doesn't block it. That means every time Kung Lao gets in he builds a ton of meter and chip damage for free, but I'm not for sure if 21212 is punishable or not by Ermac

 

[ForeverKing]

But Brady can blow up Pigs Mileena, also KL has unpunishable mixups against Mileena

Pig beat Brady last time they played and it was recorded. It may be a 6-4 idk, I just really hate Mileena and she is really tough in my opinion when I use Kung Lao

 

[KH_Captain]

i also agree that lao beats ermac 6-4 though it really isn't all that bad could be 5-5 ermacs uppercut and uppercut combos are hella underused in this matchup. i wouldnt argue it either way.