Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

[RYX]

Why is Noob a 7-3?

 

[Perfect Legend]

I think Sonya is 4-6 for KL because of how brain dead cartwheel/ex cartwheel is in that match up. I wish roll gave me a combo on hit.

 

[Qwark28]

i always guess right

like i said, people shouldnt put their inputs when they dont fight any decent laos, the fact that you always guess right says a great deal about the laos you fight

 

[Owerbart]

like i said, people shouldnt put their inputs when they dont fight any decent laos, the fact that you always guess right says a great deal about the laos you fight

I was kidding dude. I'm done discussing Ermac's MUs.

And in fact I fight decent Laos, and I get comboed from tele 3 from time to time.

 

[Smarrgasm]

Foxy blew me up in this thread. I guess im not a tournament proven Rain. But i agree with rain lao being 3-7. Rain cant keep lao out and he doesnt have great ways to deal with the teleport without meter. If i try to pressure and dont let the RH go he can full combo with 21 unless i poke after the cancel but rains pokes are ass. The mobility and speed make whiffing anything extremely risky. I wanna see foxy play someone like PL in this MU. I guess im not high level enough to understand it.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

I think Kabal is broken so therefore I am very bias towards him, I think he wins every single match-up in the game. He loses no match-ups and goes even in no match-ups, nobody can convince me that Kung Lao goes even with this character.

But Sonya is negotiable Possible 4-6 but after a lot of matches and practicing I feel it is 5-5 now

I guess i'm biased because I played 2 good Sonya's about a month or so ago and got blown up, haven't played one since. I had no clue 2,1 hit Sonya on crouch block. Regardless though, she has better zoning and braindead non-punishable pressure as well as a safe armored combo starter. I'm sure that the MU can feel even the more experience you have in it, but just like Cage, she just has better tools man.

I haven't played a top Kabal, and as of now Kabal isn't a problem. That could easily change.

 

[Mothmonsterman0]

I'm gonna go with everyone else as far as Rain goes. Rain can't do anything in this MU. even when he gets something going Lao is most likely going to have breaker, gg 3 - 7 Lao

 

[ForeverKing]

This list lacks credibility on some of the numbers.
Mainly on the characters you guys have never faught:

CSZ - I think UFG is the only tournament proven/successful. CSZ player IIRC?
Rain - Definitely not a 7-3, again, there are no tournament proven Rains lately.
Kano - I know that neither of you have ever faught a good Kano, cause there are none.

Cyrax will never be 7-3 LBSH.
4-6 at worst, but IMO 5-5.

Jax is 7-3, KL doesnt win this match because of a slight advantage, Jax cant GP and he cant do blockstrings.
How are you gonna have SZ as a 6-4, but Kenshi as a 7-3? No sense.

Also, I'm the one with the most KL tourny experience.

I have fought good CSZ, J360 and Testyourmight and others. And I did fight UFG lol. I feel like Kung Lao blows him up. Kung Lao's defense and offense is way better than CSZ, how can CSZ really get momentum in this match going? And all his special moves are easily punished by Kung Lao on whiff and block.

Rain has a big hitbox, any character with a big hitbox is going to obviously get harassed by Kung Lao's block strings and teleport mixups. Also I asked you about this matchup like a month ago in a party on XBL and I heard you tell me yourself that you feel it is Kung Lao 7-3 lol

I have fought some decent Kanos, but not a ton. So I might not completely know this matchup. But Kano's main game is zoning and it is very hard for characters to zone Kung Lao. I just put 7-3 based on what I think

PL thinks Cyrax is 7-3, not me lol. It might be bad but idk if I would say that bad

Jax could be 7-3 maybe, but I don't think Jax is that helpless. Kung Lao's teleport gets blown up obviously and Jax has a low hitbox so that could be annoying. It could be 7-3, I feel like 6-4 tho lol

Sub-Zero does not have as hard of a time vs Kung Lao as Kenshi, so why does it make no sense?

And you use Cage in tournaments way more than KL, I don't think I have ever seen your KL fight in tournament except vs REO

 

[ForeverKing]

this looks like a character that isn't in the top 5... god forbid top 10...

he beats cyrax. 2 1 instead of spin and you wont have to eat over 9000 damage

21 whiffs if Cyrax decides to low poke than Cyrax is at frame advantage to start offense

 

[GGA Wafflez]

21 whiffs if Cyrax decides to low poke than Cyrax is at frame advantage to start offense

cyrax has to worry about spin even when he's at advantage. no?

 

[ForeverKing]

I haven't played a top Kabal, and as of now Kabal isn't a problem. That could easily change.

Tbh I beat most Kabals I play using Kung Lao, but I still feel like it is in Kabal's favor just because I know what he is capable of and I know he has everything you need to stop Kung Lao. He has everything you need to stop everyone. He has everything you need period lol.
Cat's Kabal gave me a really hard time in casuals at Raleigh

 

[ForeverKing]

cyrax has to worry about spin even when he's at advantage. no?

Maybe, but Kung Lao always has to worry about blocked spin = death lol

 

[ForeverKing]

cyrax has to worry about spin even when he's at advantage. no?

Well spin is 6 frames, Cyrax's normals are 9 frames, so if Cyrax is +4 or more on his d3 than he doesn't have to worry about Kung Lao's spin

 

[MileenaOTR]

I'm surprised you think Mileena is even King, but I'll take your word for it. I haven't played you in forever but the slaughterings your Kung Lao gave me still give me nightmares lol. I would probably put it 6-4 Lao. Even though her tiny hit box negates the telekick (I can always d4 that shit), I really think he has the advantage if he doesn't get careless. A close 6-4 for Lao IMO.

I definitely think Jade loses this match 2-8. I feel so helpless in this match up with her. I almost feel like I need to count on him making mistakes to win. Her giant hit box, slow recovery on projectiles, and trouble building meter are my biggest problems here. But maybe I need more MU experience in this one.

 

[ShanxterX]

Jax could be 7-3 maybe, but I don't think Jax is that helpless. Kung Lao's teleport gets blown up obviously and Jax has a low hitbox so that could be annoying. It could be 7-3, I feel like 6-4 tho lol

Hoooold your horses . that matchup is 5-5 ...or 6-4 at the veryyy best lao favor

jax low hit box
jax can blow up teleport
jax deadly corner game
jax fast uppercut
and much more

 

[Espio]

I'm surprised you think Mileena is even King, but I'll take your word for it. I haven't played you in forever but the slaughterings your Kung Lao gave me still give me nightmares lol. I would probably put it 6-4 Lao. Even though her tiny hit box negates the telekick (I can always d4 that shit), I really think he has the advantage if he doesn't get careless. A close 6-4 for Lao IMO.

I definitely think Jade loses this match 2-8. I feel so helpless in this match up with her. I almost feel like I need to count on him making mistakes to win. Her giant hit box, slow recovery on projectiles, and trouble building meter are my biggest problems here. But maybe I need more MU experience in this one.

I have some footage playing Blake's Kung Lao on his channel if you're interested, it's old footage though, but it's not that bad for her. Don't rely heavily on rangs in your game, flash means you can avoid most of his projectiles, so there's no need to rush the match as you're not getting chipped.

Playing a patient and strong footsie game is a must, but this is applicable to any character. Rangs should only really be thrown if Lao is distracted doing something else.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

Sonya should be winning 6-4 and cyrax should be even. Imo KL has yet to be played at the absolute highest level in terms of footsies, patience, reaction, and situational setups. The 2 people that played KL the correct way was A F0xy Grampa and REO

If they stuck with the character since day 1 the MU charts for KL would be very different. We also don't really have that many sonyas or people that are are dedicated with sonya. Most of our sonya players are people who picked her up not to long ago or don't play the game that often or don't attend tournaments.

Perfect Legend is prolly the best KL there is now but imo I think he rushes down too much and needs to play a little patient is some MUs. Patience is a virtue and rushing down 24/7 especially with a character like KL isn't going to be affective all the time.

Also other changes I would make:
5-5 cage
6-4/7-3 over Mileena
6-4 over sektor

 

[NYCj360]

this match is even vs CSZ. 5-5 both character punish each other very hard and have to make each other guess most of the time. Not to mention CSZ can punish even harder with resets off of wrong kl reads. Parry changes the dynamic of the match as well, both players must lame it out, the main problem lies when KL has a lead and starts throwing projectiles.

 

[xInfra Deadx]

Gettting in vs Sektor is a pain due to Missiles and Flame Burner, and even then you have to deal with Sektor's low crouch blocking hitbox which can make things more tedious. Teleport is easily dealt with with an uppercut. Hats can set up whiffed dive kicks to get in which you have to be careful doing so cause you can get tele-cutted in the jaw and have to give up meter or health. Spin...is quite obvious at this point, it gets blocked and get punished hard and you have to be on your toes afterwards w/missile setups. After all I said though, this matchup is 5-5 for their best moves can get punished pretty equally.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

Sonya should be winning 6-4 and cyrax should be even. Imo KL has yet to be played at the absolute highest level in terms of footsies, patience, reaction, and situational setups. The 2 people that played KL the correct way was A F0xy Grampa and REO

If they stuck with the character since day 1 the MU charts for KL would be very different. We also don't really have that many sonyas or people that are are dedicated with sonya. Most of our sonya players are people who picked her up not to long ago or don't play the game that often or don't attend tournaments.

Perfect Legend is prolly the best KL there is now but imo I think he rushes down too much and needs to play a little patient is some MUs. Patience is a virtue and rushing down 24/7 especially with a character like KL isn't going to be affective all the time.

Also other changes I would make:
5-5 cage
6-4/7-3 over Mileena
6-4 over sektor

I disagree with all of these match-up changes.

People need to understand that just because they 'personally' don't have problems in a match-up, doesn't mean the other character doesn't have better tools than theirs.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Hoooold your horses . that matchup is 5-5 ...or 6-4 at the veryyy best lao favor

jax low hit box
jax can blow up teleport
jax deadly corner game
jax fast uppercut
and much more

All this talk about 'blowing up the teleport'. Jax doesn't, at all. Sonya can blow up the teleport (41% gauranteed), Cyrax can (Resets), Cage can, Rain can etc. But Jax does little damage for the risk.

Jax's low hitbox doesn't mean much because once he can start offense, he's already risking. KL full combos Jaxs moves, Jax only pokes KL's.
KL can go mad with spins midscreen since Jax cant punish for shit.

Jaxs deadly corner game doesnt work the same way against KL, since KLs 2 1 is 7f and Jaxs F4 is 8 frames, so Jax HAS to poke because KL can just mash 2 1s while blocking Jaxs offense.

KL can either throw a hat on reaction to GPs or divekick into Ex spin/roll.

 

[CURBOLICOUS]

I disagree with all of these match-up changes.

People need to understand that just because they 'personally' don't have problems in a match-up, doesn't mean the other character doesn't have better tools than theirs.

People also have to understand that some people don't know how to use the characters tools well enough in the MU. So its not a personal thing for me its them not knowing how to use a characters tools or knowing how to play the MU. I guess you can say it but its them not doing their thing right more so me not having a problem in the MU.

 

[LEGEND]

Jax is 7-3, KL doesnt win this match because of a slight advantage, Jax cant GP and he cant do blockstrings.

THANK YOU

 

[sub_on_dubs]

Some people can't win 7-3 mu's, like Kabal vs Sub, but they seem to know it all.

 

[Obs_SmSwag]

People also have to understand that some people don't know how to use the characters tools well enough in the MU. So its not a personal thing for me its them not knowing how to use a characters tools or knowing how to play the MU. I guess you can say it but its them not doing their thing right more so me not having a problem in the MU.

Match-up charts aren't based on how the tools are used by players. They are based upon the tools in general. If a character has better tools, it doesn't matter how you use them, they win the MU. MU charts are based upon tools, not player skill level or utilization of tools. If MU charts worked how you say it, kenshi would beat Lao since Pig has beaten just about every top Lao in tourney.