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Match-up Discussion Kung Lao Match-Up Chart December 2012

ForeverKing

Patreon.com/MK_ForeverKing
This tier list is absolutely perfect minus a few tiny things.

Lao vs Kabal 5-5 (negotiable I guess)
Lao vs Sonya 4-6 (Non-negotiable i.m.o)

That's about it, everything else is extremely accurate.
I think Kabal is broken so therefore I am very bias towards him, I think he wins every single match-up in the game. He loses no match-ups and goes even in no match-ups, nobody can convince me that Kung Lao goes even with this character.

But Sonya is negotiable :p Possible 4-6 but after a lot of matches and practicing I feel it is 5-5 now
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
You can't punish max tkp with a roll. you are gonna fell short. And Ermac punishes the teleport for 44% percent meterless. Also d3 is +5 on crouch block so it may be used wisely. D1 on hit leaves me at +1 and forceblasts help to keep distance.
yea im done arguing about ermac matchups, EVERY s tier character has it in there favor on there match up chart. even when zaf goes to a tourney and pulls upsets ermac still will get downplayed ,lets face it, if you dont have armor people are gonna say 6-4 vs s tier characters even though he has done great in tournaments against them. i looked at alot of matchups and apparently ermac is at slight disadvantage in every match up lol.
this matchup is strange, he could blow up kung or kung will blow up mac... theres no in between in this matchup. honestly though i could see it as any 1 of these: 4-6, 5-5, 6-4.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
This list lacks credibility on some of the numbers.
Mainly on the characters you guys have never faught:

CSZ - I think UFG is the only tournament proven/successful. CSZ player IIRC?
Rain - Definitely not a 7-3, again, there are no tournament proven Rains lately.
Kano - I know that neither of you have ever faught a good Kano, cause there are none.

Cyrax will never be 7-3 LBSH.
4-6 at worst, but IMO 5-5.

Jax is 7-3, KL doesnt win this match because of a slight advantage, Jax cant GP and he cant do blockstrings.
How are you gonna have SZ as a 6-4, but Kenshi as a 7-3? No sense.

Also, I'm the one with the most KL tourny experience. ;)
 

Espio

Kokomo
yea im done arguing about ermac matchups, EVERY s tier character has it in there favor on there match up chart. even when zaf goes to a tourney and pulls upsets ermac still will get downplayed ,lets face it, if you dont have armor people are gonna say 6-4 vs s tier characters even though he has done great in tournaments against them. i looked at alot of matchups and apparently ermac is at slight disadvantage in every match up lol.
this matchup is strange, he could blow up kung or kung will blow up mac... theres no in between in this matchup. honestly though i could see it as any 1 of these: 4-6, 5-5, 6-4.

4-6 is extremely winnable at high level and always has been. I mean there are people winning match ups that are 3-7, 2-8 at tournaments as well. We need to be able to separate player success from match up numbers (not arguing this match up or any for that matter).

You can be successful in bad match ups. Zaf is really solid for sure.
 

Illmatix

Remember, representing ermac is illmatic.
4-6 is extremely winnable at high level and always has been. I mean there are people winning match ups that are 3-7, 2-8 at tournaments as well. We need to be able to separate player success from match up numbers.

You can be successful in bad match ups and a match up stll not be in your favor. Zaf just is good, really good.
yea i just think its hilarious how he is truly always at disadvantage. smoke, kung lao, sub zero, cage, idk sometimes i just cant agree with this stuff.
 

Dizzy

False Information Police Officer
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
Regular KL players dont know how to play the MU. The best KL players like PL know how to play it. Sonya does not have a low hitbox. KL tele 3 and standing 2 in open space do connect on her. This is huge for this particular MU. His general keep away game with jumping in/tele/dive kick to the other side is good vs her. He builds a lot of meter. He can also actually zone her quite well with low hats and straight hats and when Sonya jumps he can dive kick~hit confirm~combo or just dive kick out of the way. She has a hard time building meter in the MU. KL builds a ton of it and when he has x-ray its really tough for her to attack him in general.

Sonya 7f uppercut actually can hurt her in this MU. When KL crosses up Sonya is no choice but to AA uppercut or dash out of the way. If Sonya goes for the AA uppercut KL can teleport on cross up and full combo punish the whiff uppercut and if sonya dashes out of the way the tele 3 will hit her.

Sonyas strings whiffing on opponents is a bigger issue than KLs strings whiffing. But in the MU KL strings doesnt whiff vs Sonya. Also KL can spin Sonya out of her MS block strings for free. Most characters like Kenshi have to use armor and waste a meter. KL can do this for free.

Only reason why regular KL players cry in this MU is because they just teleport non stop or random spins. Sonya can get over 50% on random spins and nearly 40% on "24~low hat" that scrubs like to still use.

Sonyas 7f uppercut, her damage and her footsie tools is what makes this a 5-5.
Makes sense, but using 21 against crouch block in open space is available to most chars, the only 2 i think of that it doesn't work on is Sektor and Mileena. Point blank it hits 100% of the time against crouch blocking Sonya which helps the KL pressure with it, I agree (as opposed to several other low crouching hitbox chars where it hits 50%-0% of the time depending on the char)

The tele 3 thing i don't understand. She doesn't get hit by instant tele 3. She is the same as every other char without an absurdly high crouch hitbox that can't be hit by instant tele 3.

Edit: Typo with can and can't :p
 

Death

Noob
Makes sense, but using 21 against crouch block in open space is available to most chars, the only 2 i think of that it doesn't work on is Sektor and Mileena. Point blank it hits 100% of the time against crouch blocking Sonya which helps the KL pressure with it, I agree (as opposed to several other low crouching hitbox chars where it hits 50%-0% of the time depending on the char)

The tele 3 thing i don't understand. She doesn't get hit by instant tele 3. She is the same as every other char without an absurdly high crouch hitbox that can be hit by instant tele 3.
THTB MITDJT

Sounds like we need to promote Dizzy to the MU police academy. lol :p
 
Regular KL players dont know how to play the MU. The best KL players like PL know how to play it. Sonya does not have a low hitbox. KL tele 3 and standing 2 in open space do connect on her. This is huge for this particular MU. His general keep away game with jumping in/tele/dive kick to the other side is good vs her. He builds a lot of meter. He can also actually zone her quite well with low hats and straight hats and when Sonya jumps he can dive kick~hit confirm~combo or just dive kick out of the way. She has a hard time building meter in the MU. KL builds a ton of it and when he has x-ray its really tough for her to attack him in general.

Sonya 7f uppercut actually can hurt her in this MU. When KL crosses up Sonya is no choice but to AA uppercut or dash out of the way. If Sonya goes for the AA uppercut KL can teleport on cross up and full combo punish the whiff uppercut and if sonya dashes out of the way the tele 3 will hit her.

Sonyas strings whiffing on opponents is a bigger issue than KLs strings whiffing. But in the MU KL strings doesnt whiff vs Sonya. Also KL can spin Sonya out of her MS block strings for free. Most characters like Kenshi have to use armor and waste a meter. KL can do this for free.

Only reason why regular KL players cry in this MU is because they just teleport non stop or random spins. Sonya can get over 50% on random spins and nearly 40% on "24~low hat" that scrubs like to still use.

Sonyas 7f uppercut, her damage and her footsie tools is what makes this a 5-5.
I actually think that her uppercut is one of her weakpoints in this matchup.
 
Makes sense, but using 21 against crouch block in open space is available to most chars, the only 2 i think of that it doesn't work on is Sektor and Mileena. Point blank it hits 100% of the time against crouch blocking Sonya which helps the KL pressure with it, I agree (as opposed to several other low crouching hitbox chars where it hits 50%-0% of the time depending on the char)

The tele 3 thing i don't understand. She doesn't get hit by instant tele 3. She is the same as every other char without an absurdly high crouch hitbox that can't be hit by instant tele 3.

Edit: Typo with can and can't :p
the tele3 doesnt really have to be ''instant''. usually instant tele 3 is refferered to the tele 3 that doesnt combo, and that one does connect better on sonya than on kitana and cage for example.

also one of the reasons the tele3 works better on her is because some sonya players like to throw out so many moves like whiffing d4 without reason or throwing projectiles
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Regular KL players dont know how to play the MU. The best KL players like PL know how to play it. Sonya does not have a low hitbox. KL tele 3 and standing 2 in open space do connect on her. This is huge for this particular MU. His general keep away game with jumping in/tele/dive kick to the other side is good vs her. He builds a lot of meter. He can also actually zone her quite well with low hats and straight hats and when Sonya jumps he can dive kick~hit confirm~combo or just dive kick out of the way. She has a hard time building meter in the MU. KL builds a ton of it and when he has x-ray its really tough for her to attack him in general.

Sonya 7f uppercut actually can hurt her in this MU. When KL crosses up Sonya is no choice but to AA uppercut or dash out of the way. If Sonya goes for the AA uppercut KL can teleport on cross up and full combo punish the whiff uppercut and if sonya dashes out of the way the tele 3 will hit her.

Sonyas strings whiffing on opponents is a bigger issue than KLs strings whiffing. But in the MU KL strings doesnt whiff vs Sonya. Also KL can spin Sonya out of her MS block strings for free. Most characters like Kenshi have to use armor and waste a meter. KL can do this for free.

Only reason why regular KL players cry in this MU is because they just teleport non stop or random spins. Sonya can get over 50% on random spins and nearly 40% on "24~low hat" that scrubs like to still use.

Sonyas 7f uppercut, her damage and her footsie tools is what makes this a 5-5.
I never uppercut cross overs

I just dashed out opposite way and if they tele on the cross over jump i am either behind them (combo) or out of the way underneath them (Uppercut)

Everything you say makes sense but instant 3 has never been a problem like it is w kenshi or smoke
 

Death

Noob
I never uppercut cross overs

I just dashed out opposite way and if they tele on the cross over jump i am either behind them (combo) or out of the way underneath them (Uppercut)

Everything you say makes sense but instant 3 has never been a problem like it is w kenshi or smoke
the tele 3 autocorrects if you dash out. dashing out is my go to move when someone crosses me up but when KL does tele 3 it still hits.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
You can't punish max tkp with a roll. you are gonna fell short. And Ermac punishes the teleport for 44% percent meterless. Also d3 is +5 on crouch block so it may be used wisely. D1 on hit leaves me at +1 and forceblasts help to keep distance.
never said punish, he does get in very easily once you put yourself at -

i dont think he gets 44%, that requires the b114 starter

like i said, he doesnt have to crouch, d1 i s punishable with ex spin or dash spin, he can also d3 you after it to make you unable to whiff 21

iafbs too slow
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
I agree with the Cage and Freddy MU's. Care to elaborate on the Cyrax/Cyblax matchup? (3-7 is a BIG stretch lol)
 

Owerbart

I miss you
never said punish, he does get in very easily once you put yourself at -

i dont think he gets 44%, that requires the b114 starter

like i said, he doesnt have to crouch, d1 i s punishable with ex spin or dash spin, he can also d3 you after it to make you unable to whiff 21

iafbs too slow
uppercut - lift jk tele 22 tkp = 44% you can assure yourself with 12 instead for a little less.

thing is i don't find a way for lao to keep continuous pressure. and if you whiff your f3 you are dead. Lao has no margin for error in this MU.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
uppercut - lift jk tele 22 tkp = 44% you can assure yourself with 12 instead for a little less.

thing is i don't find a way for lao to keep continuous pressure. and if you whiff your f3 you are dead. Lao has no margin for error in this MU.
good laos wont whiff anything, in theory if kabal whiffs something hes punished heavy too, doesnt mean its an even mu

the combo you listed still forces you to play the guessing game, the best way to punish kl tele is to make it whiff
 

Owerbart

I miss you
good laos wont whiff anything, in theory if kabal whiffs something hes punished heavy too, doesnt mean its an even mu

the combo you listed still forces you to play the guessing game, the best way to punish kl tele is to make it whiff
whiffed tele gets 36% from djk. But I'd play the guessing game if you ask.
 

GGA Wafflez

the kid
this looks like a character that isn't in the top 5... god forbid top 10...

he beats cyrax. 2 1 instead of spin and you wont have to eat over 9000 damage