General/Other Joker Community Trait Buff Suggestions To NRS

[SunLord5]

Joker's Trait Idea
==============
•Trait lasts indefinitely, you activate it at the start of the round and you auto-parry once when you don't block. You gain 3 Ha that only last for 9 seconds from parry. Also it now works on every close range move.

•When you lose a round you gain 3 ha. Joker laughed when Superman killed him in story mode so it seems appropriate. You keep these Ha longer, like 25 seconds or something.

 

[Necrophia]

Joker's Trait Idea
==============
•Trait lasts indefinitely, you activate it at the start of the round and you auto-parry once when you don't block. You gain 3 Ha that only last for 9 seconds from parry. Also it now works on every close range move.

•When you lose a round you gain 3 ha. Joker laughed when Superman killed him in story mode so it seems appropriate. You keep these Ha longer, like 25 seconds or something.

Once again i'll point is better to not completely change the trait from what NRS wanted for Joker.

Point 1) Seems good, maybe far too good in certain matchups. Joker can be easily zoned during this. It reminds me of Doomsday's superarmor a bit.

Point 2) This might be okay, but maybe 1-2 HAs instead of full HA power. Gives Joker a chance per round for use his trait. Still, is the usual i point out to not change much the trait so NRS doesn't have to rebalance Joker for this "new" trait and have to wait longer than it should for a balance patch.

 

[laudanum09]

Meh, I still think it should be universal against highs and lows on top of buff 1.

Might be too much but I still think no matter how good it gets it will still never be too good and nowhere near as good as characters with solid vortex and reset potential and great normals. These counter-offensive moves just are never going to be as good on paper as they are in a game where they can be easily countered themselves. They simply become options that can be terrible to great depending on the situation. I can't compare to MK but in AE, mashable, safe dragon punches that pummel through any strings with a hole in them for big damage and comeback factor sounds stupid on paper but they're hardly a determining factor. In a world where string counters and parries made or broke a character you'd see Dan in the Grand Finals with Akuma and Cammy with Fei Long would only ever pick Ultra 2 (parries/counters).

 

[SunLord5]

I wanna change my vote to #2. Ha whenever needed. Killer Frost has the best parry and it's going to stay that way. With #2 Joker can be less free to zoning masters. Dat walk speed.

 

[Jack White]

Posted this in another thread, wanna leave it here:

Ok, here's an idea. HA has a recharge timer. Think of it like Flash's trait. You have 3 Ha slots, and you always start with 1. db trait will activate that one HA and give you 3 seconds of being under the effects of 3 HA's like it is now. After those 3 seconds are out, it takes 7 seconds to recharge the trait. Just pressing the trait button activates the counter (holding down gives you the low counter). The counter has been buffed to acceptable active frames and ending frames (much better than Batman's and Frost's). Upon a successful counter, you get an extra HA slot, and it recharges your HA meter to max. At this point, your db trait ability lasts 6 seconds long instead of 3 thanks to that extra HA slot. A 3rd counter gives you a third HA slot that gives you 9 seconds of potential trait activation. No matter how many Ha's you get, the recharge time will always be 7 seconds.

Additional side buff idea: Counter now kicks the opponent in front of Joker leaving them open for a mix up. Also can be meter burned for some 7% bleed damage.

So, what do you think hmm? Trying to combine the best of both worlds. Instant buff button, skill indexed side ability overall.

TLDR:
*Trait gives you the ability to get the full benefits of 3 Ha's any time with db4 for only 3 seconds with a 7 second recharge time.
*Can increase the duration of that trait buff by getting counters. 1 counter brings it up to 6 seconds, 2 counters bring it up to 9.
*Parry instantly recharges HA buff.
*Parry buffed to acceptable active and recovery frames (better than Batman and KF).
*Parry kicks the opponent right in front of Joker instead of too far for a mix up.
*Meter burning adds 7% bleed damage.

 

[Dracain]

Posted this in another thread, wanna leave it here:

Ok, here's an idea. HA has a recharge timer. Think of it like Flash's trait. You have 3 Ha slots, and you always start with 1. db trait will activate that one HA and give you 3 seconds of being under the effects of 3 HA's like it is now. After those 3 seconds are out, it takes 7 seconds to recharge the trait. Just pressing the trait button activates the counter (holding down gives you the low counter). The counter has been buffed to acceptable active frames and ending frames (much better than Batman's and Frost's). Upon a successful counter, you get an extra HA slot, and it recharges your HA meter to max. At this point, your db trait ability lasts 6 seconds long instead of 3 thanks to that extra HA slot. A 3rd counter gives you a third HA slot that gives you 9 seconds of potential trait activation. No matter how many Ha's you get, the recharge time will always be 7 seconds.

Additional side buff idea: Counter now kicks the opponent in front of Joker leaving them open for a mix up. Also can be meter burned for some 7% bleed damage.

So, what do you think hmm? Trying to combine the best of both worlds. Instant buff button, skill indexed side ability overall.

TLDR:
*Trait gives you the ability to get the full benefits of 3 Ha's any time with db4 for only 3 seconds with a 7 second recharge time.
*Can increase the duration of that trait buff by getting counters. 1 counter brings it up to 6 seconds, 2 counters bring it up to 9.
*Parry instantly recharges HA buff.
*Parry buffed to acceptable active and recovery frames (better than Batman and KF).
*Parry kicks the opponent right in front of Joker instead of too far for a mix up.
*Meter burning adds 7% bleed damage.

I love this idea. where can I vote for this? This is absolutely fantastic.

 

[laudanum09]

I like it but is there any other trait that's that convoluted? I don't mean that as an insult, I mean it's a bit complex for a patch/hotfix. Does Grundy have some crazy stuff like that?

 

[StevoSuprem0]

I feel like at this point they should just take out the parry entirely. It's pretty hard to balance a single-button-press parry. Best thing might just be to make his trait a crazy speed boost for X amount of time with Y recharge duration. I'm sure that would help with some sick combo/mixup potential, kinda like Flash. At the very least, I don't think MB on trait should happen (can you on anyone else's??? why does it keep getting suggested...) and the parry should get moderately improved active frames. Maybe make it so you can only use the buff once and then landing a parry refreshes it? Something like that might work. The stacking of the trait just needs to go though. It's too useless in the beginning levels and you only conceivably are going to get 1 MAAYYYBE 2 per match. Make it a single buff that is somewhere between the effect of 2 and 3 stacks, maybe add a slight damage boost or special move alteration (more work) if that will still be balanced.

Sorry for that tortuous path of thought.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I like the idea @JackWhite had. I could see activating the trait similar to Flash's, but then being able to build the duration of it with successful parries. You could also have the Joker laugh or carnival music play if you activate it, although that might be too much of a change.

 

[Cat]

I feel like at this point they should just take out the parry entirely. It's pretty hard to balance a single-button-press parry. Best thing might just be to make his trait a crazy speed boost for X amount of time with Y recharge duration. I'm sure that would help with some sick combo/mixup potential, kinda like Flash. At the very least, I don't think MB on trait should happen (can you on anyone else's??? why does it keep getting suggested...) and the parry should get moderately improved active frames. Maybe make it so you can only use the buff once and then landing a parry refreshes it? Something like that might work. The stacking of the trait just needs to go though. It's too useless in the beginning levels and you only conceivably are going to get 1 MAAYYYBE 2 per match. Make it a single buff that is somewhere between the effect of 2 and 3 stacks, maybe add a slight damage boost or special move alteration (more work) if that will still be balanced.

Sorry for that tortuous path of thought.

Killer frost can MB her 1 frame parry and get a full combo.

Grundy can mb her trait for armor

 

[RiBBz22]

I like the idea of increasing active frames of the parry to make it less risky to go for.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Killer frost can MB her 1 frame parry and get a full combo.

Grundy can mb her trait for armor

Is it (Grundy's that is, Killer Frost's is a special so it makes sense that there's meter, albeit not to sensical that it's better than Joker's trait...)? I thought he only had additional inputs, not any meter interaction...?

EDIT: Nope, I'm wrong. Alright so there is some precedent for MB on trait. I just don't think there is a nice way for it to interact with his trait beyond just more damage on the parry, which is a little flat. Maybe similar to KF the MB could start a combo or something? That would have to be balanced somehow though.

 

[Wild Card]

I wonder who had the smart idea at NRS to make Joker's trait a one button parry.

I MEAN CMON its the Joker for crying out loud- I expected something unique, something that stands out for the Clown Prince of Crime... The baddest OG mfker in history... And all they come up with is a freaking parry?

PJSalt

 

[Necrophia]

I wonder who had the smart idea at NRS to make Joker's trait a one button parry.

I MEAN CMON its the Joker for crying out loud- I expected something unique, something that stands out for the Clown Prince of Crime... The baddest OG mfker in history... And all they come up with is a freaking parry?

PJSalt

In their favor, Joker is probably the most normal character in the entire cast in terms of canon. He doesn't break dimensions by punching them, go fast enough for time travel, or can guess how to defeat a god in less of a week with a paperclip. He doesn't have combat skill or very acrobatic moves like Harley or Nightwing neither. All he has is knowledge with chemicals, his twisted sense of humor, and a crowbar for clash against Ares or Doomsday.

Is hard to think a trait for a human being with no superpowers or fight experience without ending in a joke character (no pun intended). The rest of the cast shows part of their powers with said trait, from Superman getting some sunbath to Deathstroke's aiming. And Harley already got the random trait for show herself (Unhealthy love for Mr. J, lesbians for friendship with Ivy, and bomb because), so even if Joker is an unpredictable psycho, better not give a trait which already exists.

Also, his movepool already shows his most known gadgets: Joker Gas, gun (I miss the BANG flag though), flower, and teeth. The crowbar i guess goes as Jason Todd reference, and some pie as the super. The only thing i can think as alternative trait is using cards, but Joker is more of a pure clown rather the image of a card for simply go Gambit in the game.

Basically, all traits goes as how the character behaves. The parry, if is tweaked correctly on incoming patches, is probably the only choice for portray the character correctly. Joker is unpredictable even if is getting Batfisted, and a parry is that trick in the sleeve for turn arround the match in his favor with the help of the HAs.

 

[Wild Card]

I agree with most of what you said, but I just can't put my finger on the whole Parry-Trait thing. While it does seem logical that a parry would be the right choice for this seemingly "human" character, I had only hoped that the trait would be "less realistic."

In this game's setting, there are some instances where the game already defies realism. Batman standing up to Superman all because of pills? Surviving a fall from space's atmosphere? However I don't want to
get too deep into that "realism territory" because, hey, it's a game haha!

Ultimately, all I was asking for is something more creative for a character that is actually quite creative in a twisted sense. I do like the whole parry idea in a sense, since it does reflect how human Joker is compared to the superpowered cast, and i'll stick to it faithfully, I just wish it was something else! My apologies for slightly derailing this informative thread.

 

[AA25Mamba]

The parry would be a great trait in the sense of unpredictability IF you could use it that way. You can't make an opponent think twice about using strings because it's so hard to land the parry. If you could land the parry during strings then it would hold a sense of unpredictability in itself and be very fitting.

 

[Nos99]

There's a part of me that wants a giant buff when you reach 3 HAs. When I think about it, if I was playing vs a Joker who was on the verge of 3 HAs, he won't get that third one if I don't want him to... because I just won't attack with something that can be parried! Sure I would be limiting myself, but that's the decision I make to prevent that HA, and I think that could be a cool dynamic?

In all honesty though, I think they should just take it easy right now with any buffs, because tweaking a one button parry is a delicate thing IMO.

Maybe let it startup in one frame, and just let the HAs give you more defense+damage with each level. That's it, and just let it ride.. who knows, that might be enough? That might even be TOO much? If he can dish out 50+ (or more) damage off a BnB because he landed a parry, isn't that a sweet buff? I know I would be happy with that. Hell, I actually think the parry itself is mostly fine, I just want to see some rewards after landing one.

 

[laudanum09]

Okay, Scorpion has been announced so the next patch is coming.

Cat

tweet/tag the relevant people soon? Paulo is probably the best guy to tag am I correct? I dunno the effectiveness of tweeting to Boon or Hector but whatever works. I dunno how their patch system works via XBL/PSN DLC fees and approval times so they might have already decided on what goes in the next patch but since there is the hotfix system, it might be useful to get this thread out there ASAP.

 

[Gilbagz]

Okay, Scorpion has been announced so the next patch is coming.

Cat

tweet/tag the relevant people soon? Paulo is probably the best guy to tag am I correct? I dunno the effectiveness of tweeting to Boon or Hector but whatever works. I dunno how their patch system works via XBL/PSN DLC fees and approval times so they might have already decided on what goes in the next patch but since there is the hotfix system, it might be useful to get this thread out there ASAP.

Cat dropped Joker for scorps apparently ):

 

[laudanum09]

Cat dropped Joker for scorps apparently ):

LOL and Valle dropped him for Batman?

So is Ren like the only guy representing at tournaments?

 

[Gilbagz]

LOL and Valle dropped him for Batman?

So is Ren like the only guy representing at tournaments?

Looks like it lol
Im going to be repping him in the Aus scene if thats worth anything LOL

 

[laudanum09]

Looks like it lol
Im going to be repping him in the Aus scene if thats worth anything LOL

Yeah, I'll try to make it to CafeID's next Injustice stream and rep him myself.

Watch out....if he gets buffed we're going to have to steer that bandwagon and rep dat OG status.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Yeah, I'll try to make it to CafeID's next Injustice stream and rep him myself.

Watch out....if he gets buffed we're going to have to steer that bandwagon and rep dat OG status.

Hell yeah. Really hope they fix the trait and MAYBE make the gun hit mid instead of high so characters don't flinch and avoid it. Safer wakeup options would help too. Such a fun character, just needs a few small improvements and he's good to go!

 

[Gilbagz]

Yeah, I'll try to make it to CafeID's next Injustice stream and rep him myself.

Watch out....if he gets buffed we're going to have to steer that bandwagon and rep dat OG status.

Hoping his trait is easier to use. Would make the gl and shazam match ups so much easier.

Who ate the main Joker pkayers right now? Should do a roll call lol

 

[Cat]

Pack it up boys. The dream is dead. Joker Forever low tier.....