General/Other Joker Community Trait Buff Suggestions To NRS

[Gilbagz]

Dream isnt over till the final patch!

Who knows maybe we'll find some game breaking tech lol

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Switching to a lazily made MK9 port... tsk tsk Cat.

Joker is not dead, we just need to keep the fight alive. We've pretty much covered any and all possible trait suggestions here. Maybe it's time for the next topic (new thread)... maybe speed up the cans (after being deployed, not just the activation frames) to help him again zoners? Make the gun hit mid instead of high so it doesn't miss whenever a character ducks the slightest amount during an animation? Reduced recovery after bf3? What do you guys think? What other reasonable changes/tweaks/buffs do you think NRS can perform to improve Joker?

 

[Gilbagz]

Switching to a lazily made MK9 port... tsk tsk Cat.

Joker is not dead, we just need to keep the fight alive. We've pretty much covered any and all possible trait suggestions here. Maybe it's time for the next topic (new thread)... maybe speed up the cans (after being deployed, not just the activation frames) to help him again zoners? Make the gun hit mid instead of high so it doesn't miss whenever a character ducks the slightest amount during an animation? Reduced recovery after bf3? What do you guys think? What other reasonable changes/tweaks/buffs do you think NRS can perform to improve Joker?

I rekon they could make crowbar safe. In the corner he has 50/50 otg game that stops wake up attacks. If it was safe, he would have a safe vortex. Damage isn't nuts but its there. They could also up the damage cuz the crowbar right now is only good for the corner shenanigans. Damage as a combo ender sucks, and it knocks so far away that its kinda worthless. Making it safe and upping the damage would help a bit.

 

[Neariak]

Pack it up boys. The dream is dead. Joker Forever low tier.....

 

[Necrophia]

All the Joker truly needs is a decent trait (Hence this thread) and maybe a little tweak against mass zoners (Though can be treated as his counterpick since he can just dashblock them except Sinestro). Also make the high Gas Tank more than a bad input they can punish.

If they're planning several "seasons" (Minimum two since they teased Martian Manhunter), we have several chances for them buff Joker a bit more. And still, we got patches in and outside DLCs since the game came out (Like the Doomsday fix). The game is still too recent for settle it with a last patch.

And since it got some good image in the FGC (Even with all the Capcom illuminati drones on tournaments), we might get balance patches even if there's no more DLC to put in.

 

[laudanum09]

There will definitely be more patches.

The problem is whether or not NRS will pull their head out of their asses and give the characters the RIGHT buffs. I honestly think Joker needs more than just trait buffs to be competitive, but not much.

All I think he needs is MB flower and/or make f.2 an overhead. That's it. with MB flower we can get stun enough to start a combo with instant jump 2 or maybe b3. This leads to reset possibilities as well because with MB flower, b1 flower combo is actually a threat. F.2 as an overhead and reliable full BNB combo starter.

Realistic changes that would make him really good without even needing a trait.

 

[Cat]

There will definitely be more patches.

The problem is whether or not NRS will pull their head out of their asses and give the characters the RIGHT buffs. I honestly think Joker needs more than just trait buffs to be competitive, but not much.

All I think he needs is MB flower and/or make f.2 an overhead. That's it. with MB flower we can get stun enough to start a combo with instant jump 2 or maybe b3. This leads to reset possibilities as well because with MB flower, b1 flower combo is actually a threat. F.2 as an overhead and reliable full BNB combo starter.

Realistic changes that would make him really good without even needing a trait.

f2 should hit overhead.. it looks like one.. he was no way to get damage of a mix up, like a low or overhead..

 

[Jack White]

f2 should hit overhead.. it looks like one.. he was no way to get damage of a mix up, like a low or overhead..

Wait a second here. I made the exact same points you're making in a post I had a while ago and you were all "Joker is better than people give him credit for". What changed? After playing Scorpion did you finally realize how lacking The Joker was?

Ok, that sounds angry, but I'm not. You are still The Joker forum's hero no matter what. Good to have you on board the "Joker needs help" train. If Catwoman can have an unnecessary overhead added, Joker should get one that he needs. f2 should hit overhead (b2 should be heavily sped up to compensate) and b1 should be able to combo into an RLG. That way, Joker could at least be capable of getting damage off mix ups with meter.

 

[Gilbagz]

How about increased block advantage on teeth so its easier to set up safe jumps.
Against green lantern i've been finishing combos with either f+2,1 so I get a free cross up that causes wake up lift to whiff, or the 2 acid flower reset after doing the d2 teeth j2 teeth. If it hits i get 70%+, if its blocked I get a lot of advantage. It is possible for insta forward jump 2 to beat lanterns options, but its seems pretty inconsistent as of yet. If the block advantage was increased, Joker could get some form of continuous offence off combos midscreen. Maybe i'm asking for too much idk. He can already check you with b1 after 2 acid flower onto teeth, which could grant the free j2, but he doesnt get a free 50-50 after so having the safe jump doesnt seem epically broken.

What do you guys think?

Also for standing resets, for meterless combos i've been thinking of taking 2,1 gun shot or 3,2 gunshot. It does less damage but leaves you at +6. The fact that gun shot doesnt knock down actually helps here.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

What I am currently testing around with is 2,1 gun into a dash cancel. I think we talked about it in another forum and it is pretty awesome. Gives you an insane amount of options off of the 2,1 string, which already functions well as a hit confirm. You can add the 3 to the end for an overhead and then try crossinng them up with a ji2, go into RLG for a big combo, do 2,1,2 teeth which is safe on block and gets the teeth out there, or the full 2,1,2 into gun dash cancel into d1 b1 flower/3/crowbar or b2 or a ji2 crossup. Ton of options on that string, sooo many ways to keep them guessing.

 

[laudanum09]

How about increased block advantage on teeth so its easier to set up safe jumps.

Also for standing resets, for meterless combos i've been thinking of taking 2,1 gun shot or 3,2 gunshot. It does less damage but leaves you at +6. The fact that gun shot doesnt knock down actually helps here.

Block advantage on teeth meaning on explosion right? Someone could probably calculate the actual block advantage by setting the CPU to reversal and trying to counter with your own d1. Probably pretty ghetto though so frame counting would be needed.

Teeth are so fun and unique that I think they should try and make it less fraudulent. The teeth themselves are great, it's the lack of other options we have to force the hit/block. Just brainstorming but maybe a hard knockdown string cancelable into teeth or faster recovery off of hard knockdown strings/attacks so that we can follow them up without such a large escape window?

 

[Gilbagz]

Block advantage on teeth meaning on explosion right? Someone could probably calculate the actual block advantage by setting the CPU to reversal and trying to counter with your own d1. Probably pretty ghetto though so frame counting would be needed.

Teeth are so fun and unique that I think they should try and make it less fraudulent. The teeth themselves are great, it's the lack of other options we have to force the hit/block. Just brainstorming but maybe a hard knockdown string cancelable into teeth or faster recovery off of hard knockdown strings/attacks so that we can follow them up without such a large escape window?

Its +82 from the moment we let them go till they explode + the block advantage I think. So I think we just needa count the frames till the explosion and subtract that from the 82 and it should give the true block advantage.
The only way i've seen to force the teeth block is using the 2 acid flower reset.
I've been doing
2,1/3,2 ex rlg d2 far teeth j2 far teeth 2 acid flower. Gives 40% and forces them to block the teeth. But its not a true safe jump. I've been hit out of it by green lanterns 7f standing 1. Mighta just been me mistiming it though. Its pretty nifty for disabling wake ups and granting free pressure. Allows Joker to maintain continuous offence. Slight boost in block advantage will close the gap though, helping for a less tight safe jump window.

What I am currently testing around with is 2,1 gun into a dash cancel. I think we talked about it in another forum and it is pretty awesome. Gives you an insane amount of options off of the 2,1 string, which already functions well as a hit confirm. You can add the 3 to the end for an overhead and then try crossinng them up with a ji2, go into RLG for a big combo, do 2,1,2 teeth which is safe on block and gets the teeth out there, or the full 2,1,2 into gun dash cancel into d1 b1 flower/3/crowbar or b2 or a ji2 crossup. Ton of options on that string, sooo many ways to keep them guessing.

Yeah true. 2,1 is just a great string in general. But is this 2,1 gun cancel on block or hit? On hit I could see something, but on block I think you could get punished for it lol. 2,1 has high block advantage, but I think the cancel advantage on block is low since you can get punished by lex charge when you cancel into teeth.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Its +82 from the moment we let them go till they explode + the block advantage I think. So I think we just needa count the frames till the explosion and subtract that from the 82 and it should give the true block advantage.
The only way i've seen to force the teeth block is using the 2 acid flower reset.
I've been doing
2,1/3,2 ex rlg d2 far teeth j2 far teeth 2 acid flower. Gives 40% and forces them to block the teeth. But its not a true safe jump. I've been hit out of it by green lanterns 7f standing 1. Mighta just been me mistiming it though. Its pretty nifty for disabling wake ups and granting free pressure. Allows Joker to maintain continuous offence. Slight boost in block advantage will close the gap though, helping for a less tight safe jump window.



Yeah true. 2,1 is just a great string in general. But is this 2,1 gun cancel on block or hit? On hit I could see something, but on block I think you could get punished for it lol. 2,1 has high block advantage, but I think the cancel advantage on block is low since you can get punished by lex charge when you cancel into teeth.

Sorry, I said that wrong, I do the full 2,1,2 into gun cancel dash. I believe it is punishable on block, so on hit is best, but if they aren't perfectly fast, then you can probably get a b1 off after the dash cancel. Remember- it's part of a string with alot of possible terminations, so their going to have a harder time guessing correctly, leaving it up to reaction time a bit more, which gives you more frames to work with. I think it can work decently on block, but primarily on hit. Also, there is a video showing that you can't get punished by the lex charge after a teeth cancel off 2,1,2. It's either Dr. Jackel's or one of Cat's that was post 1.03 patch.

 

[laudanum09]

Well, there's several more characters that's pretty much confirmed. Most likely another 5 meaning 5 more rounds of patching.

If they had any sense they'd be worrying about Bane/Lobo/Joker tier before buffing/nerfing anyone else. My question is whether or not they even know where Joker stands or how people feel about him competitively. Flash was arguably part of that group and he got a lot of new stuff, maybe some of the best and biggest buffs of all so there is still at least 5 more rounds of hope to be shattered.

 

[Gilbagz]

Well, there's several more characters that's pretty much confirmed. Most likely another 5 meaning 5 more rounds of patching.

If they had any sense they'd be worrying about Bane/Lobo/Joker tier before buffing/nerfing anyone else. My question is whether or not they even know where Joker stands or how people feel about him competitively. Flash was arguably part of that group and he got a lot of new stuff, maybe some of the best and biggest buffs of all so there is still at least 5 more rounds of hope to be shattered.

Actually i've been browsing the Flash forums. He's overall worse with latest patch cuz they removed his otg stuff.
I rekon Joker is really close to viable right now, a few tweaks and he could easily be A tier. He's got issues with zoners, and his trait is rather lack luster. But his parry has helped my game. After b+1,3 people tend to delay there pressure to blow up parry now, so now I actually get to pressure of b+1,3. I would constantly parry people before, but now the strings are delayed so much I can get my own stuff off. Super risky, but I've gotten the parry to work to some extent. The 13% is nice, but I think its just the fear of the parry that is main gain here. Then again 13% isnt that much to fear so people technically don't even need to respect it.
Here's hoping for 1f start up, batman and frost have it. Why can't we lol.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I say we make a push for a Joker buff. At the very least we should make a push for a trait buff. I say we take to twitter.

 

[Gilbagz]

I say we make a push for a Joker buff. At the very least we should make a push for a trait buff. I say we take to twitter.

I will join you guys after the 17th lol. Got exams to study for. ):

 

[AA25Mamba]

I will join you guys after the 17th lol. Got exams to study for. ):

I tweeted the Injustice twitter account about Bane. Then we made a thread, like this one, discussing our ideas. They read through the thread and sent us some help. It might not fall on deaf ears.

 

[Gilbagz]

I tweeted the Injustice twitter account about Bane. Then we made a thread, like this one, discussing our ideas. They read through the thread and sent us some help. It might not fall on deaf ears.

Yeah true. I might tweet them as well later today then.

 

[CHAINSAW305]

I wish they did his trait something like WW's or Ares but with like 3 instead of 2...Like he could switch from a knife to a big ass meat cleaver. With that you would sacrifice speed for power with every knife attack...He would also be able to switch from a pistol to a bazooka... again sacrificing speed for power with every pistol attack. Then I was thinking he could switch his gas cans for grenades or dynamite. Making him toss or lob the grenades or dynamite kinda like Cyrax's bombs instead of rolling or throwing the gas cans.
This is just an idea that maybe could've been his trait. I don't know if they could do something like this as a fix or if you guys think it would be kool.

 

[Neariak]

Buff Joker, I cant stand to play any of the other characters I like to actually have to use my average IQ play and not just YOLO slide or YOLO zone ( I said ZONE not spam you people bitching about people bitching about spam).

I want to love Mr.J I really do, but he needs some trait love.

We've lost Cat and Alex Valle is talking about switching to Batman =*(

 

[laudanum09]

Good riddance to Valle.


Valle's Joker:

Patch 1.03 comes out

Still tries to confirm off 1,1

Gets confused when it constantly whiffs

 

[laudanum09]

I could go on for days.

Valle's Joker:

Blocks Batgirl Teleport

Punishes with d.1

 

[StevoSuprem0]

Yeah I watched Valle get completely destroyed by Tyrant's Grundy with Joker. Grundy is a good character, but I personally think Joker has a pretty decent match up against him. I think Valle did about 20% of his first health bar lol. Cat will probably be back when Scorps gets what's coming to him. Hang in there guys, Joker improvements are coming.

 

[laudanum09]

All of this QQing about things that are supposedly OP and shit gets hotfixed and patched in a rush but what about stuff that's underpowered? Lobo/Joker/Lex/Bane tier is hurting the most and only the Bane guys have been loud about things. People mention stuff here and there but it's almost as if people overplay Joker's viability or just ignore him altogether.

We should do what someone else suggested and take it to twitter. The ways of the scrub seem to actually get things done while the Joker forum just sits patiently and politely. Not talking about being whiny or annoying but at least making the point that we're here. We will twiddle our thumbs and continue to be patient but at least drop a word or two to let us know whether we need to find a new main before seriously competing.

What say all you?

Neariak
Gilbagz
AA25Mamba
Necrophia
Jack White
StevoSuprem0
MetaSkipper
sunlord5
Wild Card
Dr Jackal
Dracain

@ Alex "1,1 is my hitconfirm, d.1 punish all day" Valle

Sorry if I missed any other regular posters